The truth about Islam

Oh I didn't read that, I stopped after the "death to muslims".
That's indeed one of the most horrible things that can happen to you, losing your family due to terrorists.
I may not have any right to speak in this department, but I am quite sure if you let rage and hate guide you, there will be no sulotions, and many more will suffer the same tragic fate.

i want to start off by saying everyone should be free to believe what they want and should not be forced to believe by any fundementalist in either religion be it Islam or Christianity. that said i personally believe that out there there is the TRUE religion, and I believe it to be the faith of Jesus Christ as the messiah and saviour of the world, i state that because point blank Jesus is literally the ONLY saviour of man out of all the religions and Christianity is the only faith that teaches salvation and forgiveness of sins and peace with God.

one of the big questions about Islam is the gabriel issue. if i believe and understand correctly the angel gabriel supposedly gave mohammed the koran in which jesus is only a prophet. however in the gospels gabriel visted marry and told her that her son would be the SON OF GOD not just a prophet. also there are other stories that gabriel actually came to mohammed later in his life and told him he himself did not give him the koran and rebuked him in a way. anyway thats what i remeber from reading up on islam, research it to find out if im correct if you like!

I may not have any right to speak in this department, but I am quite sure if you let rage and hate guide you, there will be no sulotions, and many more will suffer the same tragic fate.

That is true. I survived a war, a genocide, years of horror. Members of my family were killed, I lost friends, neighbours, half of my family is scatered around the world, living in other countries as refugees, the other half still lives in Bosnia. I watched a man bleed to death in front of my eyes after a bomb exploded and almost killed me. I was 15 years old when that happened. Instead of going on parties, dates, I was dodging bombs and bullets. These atrocities were commited by christians, but I do not judge christianity by these monsters nor do I want to kill all christians.
I was angry, yes, but angry at those who have killed, not at some random christian somewhere in the world.

Originally posted by paperclip

I may not have any right to speak in this department, but I am quite sure if you let rage and hate guide you, there will be no sulotions, and many more will suffer the same tragic fate.

That is true. I survived a war, a genocide, years of horror. Members of my family were killed, I lost friends, neighbours, half of my family is scatered around the world, living in other countries as refugees, the other half still lives in Bosnia. I watched a man bleed to death in front of my eyes after a bomb exploded and almost killed me. I was 15 years old when that happened. Instead of going on parties, dates, I was dodging bombs and bullets. These atrocities were commited by christians, but I do not judge christianity by these monsters nor do I want to kill all christians.
I was angry, yes, but angry at those who have killed, not at some random christian somewhere in the world.

step back and honestly look at Islam,
embrace it for what it is or leave it.
but stop trying to fit it into a box it doesnt belong in.
Islam is about global conquest. Nothing you can write can change that.

Wow. Well let me just say that while you and I are in agreement that Islam is a problem, we are in full disagreement on the solution.

Wiping them all out is definitely the easy way out, and I doubt I'd lose very much sleep over it, but as human beings I think they deserve the chance to free themselves from the bonds of their faith and make something of themselves and their societies. I don't blame them for the violence and hate that stems from their culture; Islam is an all-encompassing way of life, controlling the thoughts and acts of the Muslim from practically at birth. If you are born into Islam you are pretty much doomed.

I don't really know what to do about that, but we're not going to change many minds by talking about genocide. I appreciate the compliments but seriously, respectfully, tone down the rhetoric. It's hard enough to get people to take me seriously when people think I want to kill all Muslims and they take post like yours as proof.

You're very ignorant, and by no means an 'authority' over this issue; esp not when you are bombarding this board with 'biased' partisan sites that entice violent Jihad against the 'kafirs'. Now stoping using 'adaheeths' to justify your points; these were written centuries after Muhhamed and were passed down through oral tradition, then bent and twisted to fit the sociopolitical desires of thier hearts; these nomadic tribal leaders were of harsh perfunctory.

I also will comment of the fact that the MUSLIMS members of this site have been very moderate in their approach to you, and i have taken notice in another thread that another member of this forum enticed a Muslims member to 'meet up and talk, man to man', but the Muslims member degressed, something of which, i praise him for, as i praise him for keeping a passive tone whilst being chided time after time. I also noticed non-muslims members being more 'agressive' and conveying an 'online jihad' against the Muslims members, stating that the ignorant remarks that have been. Tell me, whose the idoctrinated fool, the Muslims who kept themselves in moderation, or those who fight for 'freedom and liberty' on these threads? Grow up. If these forums can be considered a 'small society', then it can also be said that it has been the non-muslims that have created more havoc on these threads than the Muslims themselves - who are productive members partaking in all realms of articulation.

You have stated many times before that you have nothing against Muslims, nor do you believe they are 'all evil', but when you make the statements you have made towards them time after time, one thinks that your disposition to make these remarks manifests from an ill will towards something you have taken a very biased perception towards.

A member on this site told me once: You create a duality within a duality, and a reality within a reality. I think this statement can be used against your current mindset: that all muslims are indoctrinated and uneducated cave dwellers fixated in the codified word of the Qu'ran to kill Infedels and declare a Jihad against the known world, something you have hinted at time and time again, and at times stated it quite 'overtly'..

I don't see hate and violence from the Islam world? I see it from a minority of fanatics waging a war against a country that created them; i see them indoctrinating a peoples; but, i see this in only 'some' countries that have an Islamic majority: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. You seem to exclude the more moderate countries: Egypt, Turkey, Quatar, etc..

Those born into Islam are not doomed. Though i was born in Canada, my ethnicity is Indian, a country which is rampant with this Muslim 'plauge' you claims is so pernicious to the entire world. These people have helped raise me since birth; these people spend days and nights with me; these people praise the teachings of Christ, Buddha, Krishna, Guru Nanak, among many others; these people have never chided me for my non-islamic belief, nor have they ever declared a 'Jihad' against my people for any reason, and if they do, it's usualy a Jihad to quell the innner demons that manifest in the best of us, you are a good example of this: to kill the demons of dementia, dillusions, paranoia, concepual habituation, ignorance, arrogance, to give them strenght to assimilate into a culture that is alien to theirs -- cultures that are usualy subject to a certain sociological atmosphere from their native countries, where ever they may be. A Muslims born into Canada, as dictated by a handfull of my Muslims freinds, are not as indoctrinated 'morons' as you seem to tout. These people live, work, play, and have periodic dinners with non-muslims on a day to day basis, non-muslims like myself. I have never seen them act in ways you state, nor do they have a predisposition too.

You're generalizing an entire group of people of the acts of a few terrorists, come on, be more mature than that.

Tell me something: When America first arrived in this land, how many scores of Native Americans were killed under the guise of Christ and greed ? Tell me, why would a people so indoctrinated and intoxicated in the words of the 'pious' Christ, kill so many people ? What about the Hinduteva party in India who have starved over 200 million of it's own people? Where in the Vedantas does it state this ? But they do use it as justification, why is that ? What about the Sikhs in India who have become the greatest hypocrites and are responsible for the Air-India bombing? Where in the Guru Granth Saab does it say to act in the way they did ?

I could give a rats ass what the Qu'ran says, what i do give a rats ass is you trying to convince us that all Muslims are doomed morons who cannot think for themselves and do nothing but create havoc on this planet.

Remember something: It's not the meek, nor the powerfull who shall inheret this Earth, it's those who choose to cooperate; these, the words of an Islamic Iman..

I want you to take a look into the Agha Khan foundation, and see what Pious muslims can do.

Deep

[edit on 10-11-2004 by ZeroDeep]

If al JIhaad is about inner struggle against inner demans why are woman the old and infirm excused?

If al JIhaad is about inner struggle against inner demans why are woman the old and infirm excused?

You're gonna have to elaborate further, aposiopesis does not bode well with me, nor others.

Now, mind you, i can also replace Jihad with, 'ABU GRAIHB', and ask you the very same questions regarding those soldiers...

Deep

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

If al JIhaad is about inner struggle against inner demans why are woman the old and infirm excused?

You're gonna have to elaborate further, aposiopesis does not bode well with me, nor others.

Now, mind you, i can also replace Jihad with, 'ABU GRAIHB', and ask you the very same questions regarding those soldiers...

Deep

you wrote in your treaties some gibberjabber about jihad being an inner struggle some spiritual showdown so I asked a question

If al JIhaad is about inner struggle against inner demons why are woman the old and infirm excused?

if abu grab is about inner struggle why are woman the old and the infirm excused .

Im sorry are you feeling alright?

I don't see hate and violence from the Islam world? I see it from a minority of fanatics waging a war against a country that created them; i see them indoctrinating a peoples; but, i see this in only 'some' countries that have an Islamic majority: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan. You seem to exclude the more moderate countries: Egypt, Turkey, Quatar, etc..

How is that if only minorities are extermist, Islam is with war with every religion, race and country.

Let me give you some facts.

Muslims are currently in war with

Palestine vs Isreal (Jews)
Pakistan vs India (Hindus)
Pakistan(minorties)
India (Hindus)
Bosnia (Christian)
Indonesia (Christians)
Philipines(Catholics)
America (Protestant)
Iraq/Iran (Sunni/Shia)
Sudan(Christian)
Whole Africa (Christian)
.......just to name few...

OMG I can't think of a modern war without muslim.

There is a saying you can't fool all the people all the time.

Not all muslims are bad, but Islam seems to bring out the worst in everyone.

How is that not even one muslim country has human rights equivalent to a westen world? Heck how come there is not one secular muslim majority country? This from the largest religion of the world...

you wrote in your treaties some gibberjabber about jihad being an inner struggle some spiritual showdown so I asked a question

If al JIhaad is about inner struggle against inner demons why are woman the old and infirm excused?

if abu grab is about inner struggle why are woman the old and the infirm excused .

Im sorry are you feeling alright?

I'm not sure what you are talking about. You will have to elaborate further if you want to carry on this discussion, not just type some vauge statment and assume we are all on the same track as you.

www.bmf.org...

My brothers, the holy wars that the children of Adam are waging today are not true holy wars. Taking other lives is not true jihad We will have to answer for that kind of war when we are questioned in the grave. That jihad is fought for the sake of men, for the sake of earth and wealth, for the sake of one's children, one's wife, and one's possessions. Selfish intentions are intermingled within it.

True jihad is to praise God and cut away the inner satanic enemies. When wisdom and clarity come to us, we will understand that the enemies of truth are within our own hearts. There are four hundred trillion, ten thousand spiritual opponents within the body: satan and his qualities of backbiting, deceit, jealousy, envy, treachery, the separations of I and you, mine and yours, intoxicants, theft, lust, murder, falsehood, arrogance, karma, illusion, mantras and magics, and the desire for earth, sensual pleasures, and gold. These are the enemies which separate us from Allah, from truth, from worship, from good actions and good thoughts, and from faith, certitude, and determination. These are the enemies which create divisions among the children of Adam and prevent us from attaining a state of peace.

Deep

Originally posted by paperclip

That is true. I survived a war, a genocide, years of horror. Members of my family were killed, I lost friends, neighbours, half of my family is scatered around the world, living in other countries as refugees, the other half still lives in Bosnia. I watched a man bleed to death in front of my eyes after a bomb exploded and almost killed me. I was 15 years old when that happened. Instead of going on parties, dates, I was dodging bombs and bullets. These atrocities were commited by christians, but I do not judge christianity by these monsters nor do I want to kill all christians.
I was angry, yes, but angry at those who have killed, not at some random christian somewhere in the world.

This is stunning.
Christians?
I am a christian and I really have no clue how a christian could ever do such things without realizing that it is 100% wrong.
The bible is so clear about violence and killing/hurting people, I always strongly wonder how the heck people think they could do this in the name of the christian God.

I didn't know this happened to you paperclip, and I feel very sorry for you.
These events should not have happened to you, let stand at that age. You seem to be wise and able to control your madness, which is the best attitude to have in your situation.

I know ex Muslims that are now Christian, problem is if you live in the middle east and deny the "Muslim Organization" you basically sign your own death warrant. Ive talked to some of these people, some from iraq, most people in iraq are happy to see the change but if they publicly say it they drastically reduce their lifespan. I agree with Ibn Iblis, and I believe their are alot of Ex Muslims in the US and Muislims in the middle east do also!
In the USA you can believe in any or no religion or change religions on a whim like changing your socks openly:

Religious Choice In America--------Free To Choose----------Penalty
____________________________________________________________
Christian--------------------------------Yes-------------------------None
Catholic --------------------------------Yes-------------------------None
Muslim---------------------------------- Yes-------------------------None
Harry Kristner?------------------------Yes-------------------------Harrasment from port security
Any Other-------------------------------Yes-------------------------None
Pier Pressures = Hardly
.......................................................................................................................
.
Religous Choice In Islam-----------Free To Choose-----------Penalty
____________________________________________________________
Muslim---------------------------------Yes---------------------------None
Say your Muslim but hate it-------Yes---------------------------Risky
Any Other Religeon-----------------Yes---------------------------Your Head
Verbally Support Democracy
In Iraq---------------------------------Yes---------------------------Your Head
Pier Pressures = The State, Brother, Neighbor,Father,AK47,Machetti

Its easy to see how public opinion polls are so one sided in these countries

Edited format

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Iwunder]

A Muslim HAREM here somewhere?

the "slave" issue is getting old, I suspect with abit of research you might find that slaves built most of the old worlds middle east as well.

Try something new as opposed to attacking our patriots that founded this land.


Warm Regards,

Enigma

Originally posted by quango

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis
I know not what course others may take; but as for me -- give me liberty or give me death!~Patrick Henry.

The Truth about Patrick Henry:
"He owned 66 plantation slaves" from link

Give me Liberty or Give me Death, huh?
Unless you're black.

ZeroShallow~

Let me tell you what ignorant is. Ignorant is when someone, like you, has never bothered putting in the effort to learn about a subject, but then feels he has the authority to tell other people they're ignorant, even though that person has knowledge on the subject far surpassing your own.

Quit following me around, quit flaming me. You're out of your league. You don't know s4it.

You're not going to get anywhere trying to claim I'm against MUSLIMS as individuals when everything I've ever posted has been critical of Islamic scripture EXCLUSIVELY.

Just shut up, wipe the drool from your mouth and get a hold of yourself.

You've become hysterical.

Sorry Zerodeep, but I must agree with Ibn here.
I read your post, and even though it is well written, it's exactly that attitude that got the netherlands into the stage where it is in now.
The sad truth is that the Islamic religion is simply not as tolerant towards us, as we are tolerant to them.

Several scientist and organisations allready predicted Europe to be an Islamic continent in 20XX.
Now I can hear you wonder how would this ever happen?
The answer is, in the exact same way the currect Islamic countries changed from tolerant and peacefull places into countries led by violent, vicious and discriminating muslims radicals, where the people have no choice but to accept the religion they are forced to follow.

You will have to accept that this is really not about "a few terrorists". There are way more than a few, and apart from that few there is a very large group that agrees with the horrible things these few do, allthough they do not participate in that themselves.

Why were some muslims in the netherlands celebrating on 9/11?
Those ones were not terrorists, neither a few.

I consider myself a radical christian. I should not say this too loud though, because when people hear the word radical followed by a religion they get scared.
This is due to radical muslims.

Followers of any religion should be able to do it in a radical way, unless of course the religion is too violent for others to allow people to follow it in a radical way.

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by Ibn Iblis
ZeroShallow~

Let me tell you what ignorant is. Ignorant is when someone, like you, has never bothered putting in the effort to learn about a subject, but then feels he has the authority to tell other people they're ignorant, even though that person has knowledge on the subject far surpassing your own.

Quit following me around, quit flaming me. You're out of your league. You don't know s4it.

You're not going to get anywhere trying to claim I'm against MUSLIMS as individuals when everything I've ever posted has been critical of Islamic scripture EXCLUSIVELY.

Just shut up, wipe the drool from your mouth and get a hold of yourself.

You've become hysterical.

ZeroDeep, not ZeroShallow; you can adress me as such, as i have adressed you by your name.

Now, the ad hominem aside, what exactly did you state that was of revellence? Once again, you 'pick and choose' verses out of the Qu'ran and Hadith -- of which are not reliable -- and try to insinuate that Muslims are on an all out Jihad against the known world, and then even have the galls to say the following: Muslims have a mandate from God to rape women who've they've taken slaves, and commit acts of pedophilia as mandated by the prophet's own example in the hadith.

Once again, you never adressed anything i stated, you just 'attacked' me and called me uneducate. Good job Bet you feel like a big man, unlike you, when i do study Islam, being that i will be majoring in theology, i will walk into the classes with a clear consciousness, and not a paraniod one as yours. This '22' year old still seems to mature enough to realize that there are many Muslims who wish to live in peace with thier brethren and have been commited to this since ages of old; you, 'allah' knows how old you are, would rather just generalize that all Muslims, " have a mandate from God to rape women who've they've taken slaves, and commit acts of pedophilia as mandated by the prophet's own example in the hadith ".

Have you ever gone through the Pentetauch ('first 5 scrolls of Moses'), these very 'mandates' are commanded by the God Yaweh himself, yet, you do not see us advocating against the utter 'destruction' of Judaism?

Stop attacking me, and adress what i stated.

Deep

.......................................................................................
Originally posted by enigmalone
A Muslim HAREM here somewhere?

the "slave" issue is getting old, I suspect with abit of research you might find that slaves built most of the old worlds middle east as well.

Try something new as opposed to attacking our patriots that founded this land.

.......................................................................................

You are obviously in the wrong thread,
This thread is not about "American History", OR "Slaves"
READ THE WHOLE THREAD
Forgive me if ive mistaken you for someone who takes peoples words out of context if your not!!

You may not want to admit it people, but you best wake up and buckle down , this is a very serious issue, there are thousands of other threads to play games on so if your not in2it make tracks, I for one would like to hear what IBN has to say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



[edit on 11-11-2004 by Iwunder]

You have voted ZeroDeep for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

I have become very alarmed with the amount of racist remarks i have seen against Islam in recent months. This is boarding of extremism. Blaming all muslims for a few extremist is stereotyping, racist and shouldn't be accepted. Yes, you have freedom of speech but that doesnt mean you can incite racial hatred. (btw,extremists are not muslims if you read the Qur'an, people who pick "bits" of the Qur'an to believe are not muslims)

There is no entity of a supreme being.
-Other than yourself.
You can change things, You can destroy things, You can give love, or You can make war.

If you say a being enlightened you, by showing his/hers/it's face in a sky or by a Llama spitting in your face, or a bush struck in fire because of thunder and lightning, You are either superstitious, mentally weak/ill or full of paraphanalias like mushrooms...

Get realistic, get agnostic!

[edit on 11-11-2004 by Ulvetann]

Originally posted by infinite
You have voted ZeroDeep for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.

I have become very alarmed with the amount of racist remarks i have seen against Islam in recent months. This is boarding of extremism. Blaming all muslims for a few extremist is stereotyping, racist and shouldn't be accepted. Yes, you have freedom of speech but that doesnt mean you can incite racial hatred. (btw,extremists are not muslims if you read the Qur'an, people who pick "bits" of the Qur'an to believe are not muslims)

do you think that we the free people are scared of Extremist Christians? or Extreamist Catholics or other religions??

Nope Islam is EVIL and all who follow it are EVIL and need erasing from exsistance.

Tim,