Do Words Hurt?

BO XIAN
reply to post by Itisnowagain

BO XIAN
Ahhhhhhh a pan-everything-ist perhaps trying to encourage everyone to chant endlessly OMMMM to illustrate that all is some dull homogeneous ONE-NESS to the max. Sigh.Now I understand a bit more. The thread sure sounded early on like there was an intensely held RELIGION at the core of the assertions.Of course, that the founding dogma of the religion are absurd on their face is a whole 'nother issue.

ONeNess? That is exactly the purpose; to dogmaize into a malgamon soup; (the opposite of the human individual experience as supposed to be didacted) described by YOU as the INTERPRETER OF ALL OF OUR/YOUR LIFE CONDITIONS (including the spirituallity of); YoU ArE MoSt BraVe in ThE AttEmPT of becoming the soapbox artifact human spokesperson for all of us (I dont disagree with you is the funny part).

LesMisanthrope


What they appear in? They appear in nothing.

Words do appear in nothing and words are just wisps of nothing - they appear then just disappear.

BO XIAN
Of course, that the founding dogma of the religion are absurd on their face is a whole 'nother issue.

There can be no dogma with non duality.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


You are right I cannot point with my finger the location of your mind, if thought and sense do not exist for you I must agree with you that you are both senseless and mindless.

You cannot pinpoint your thought to another either but you happily give it existence.
Mind is not a location/place I can pinpoint for you.

Also I am not as gifted as you and cannot observe /see all frequencies UV light and all wave forms.
While we are at it you want me also to SHOW you where space is?

All UV waves can’t be seen with your naked eyes .
All frequencies cannot be observed with your naked ears.
You can’t even sense still oxygen.
What instrument do you claim to use to recognize thought?
Words arise in my thoughts and I can sense( hear/see) words.
Do you sense thinking? Is this to you what makes you say thoughts exist?

reply to post by BDBinc

You are right I cannot point with my finger the location of your mind, if thought and sense do not exist for you I must agree with you that you are both senseless and mindless.

Well since thought and sense exist for you, perhaps you can point out your own mind? Until then, you too are senseless and mindless.

You cannot pinpoint your thought to another either but you happily give it existence.
Mind is not a location/place I can pinpoint for you.

Nor can you pinpoint it for yourself. Yet you seem to think things exist in them. Surely you have seen this place if you know it to be true.

Also I am not as gifted as you and cannot observe /see all frequencies UV light and all wave forms.
While we are at it you want me also to SHOW you where space is?

I cannot see UV light myself, but those that have had certain eye operations can. They are still human, therefor humans can see UV light.

If you tell me what space is I might be able to try and find it for you. But yes, whenever we point, we are pointing at something and not nothing.

All UV waves can’t be seen with your naked eyes .
All frequencies cannot be observed with your naked ears.
You can’t even sense still oxygen.
What instrument do you claim to use to recognize thought?
Words arise in my thoughts and I can sense( hear/see) words.
Do you sense thinking? Is this to you what makes you say thoughts exist?

I say thoughts exist because they take form when we write them down or speak them. I can use my eyes and ears as instruments to recognize this.

Only thought arises in thought. Your words in the mind are merely you thinking about words.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Words do appear in nothing and words are just wisps of nothing - they appear then just disappear.

When will these words disappear?

LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Words do appear in nothing and words are just wisps of nothing - they appear then just disappear.

When will these words disappear?

Now.
All that appears and disappears does so presently.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Now.
All that appears and disappears does so presently.

It seems like they're still there to me.

LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Now.
All that appears and disappears does so presently.

It seems like they're still there to me.

When are they being seen?

LesMisanthrope
reply to post by BDBinc

 

You are right I cannot point with my finger the location of your mind, if thought and sense do not exist for you I must agree with you that you are both senseless and mindless.

Well since thought and sense exist for you, perhaps you can point out your own mind? Until then, you too are senseless and mindless.

You cannot pinpoint your thought to another either but you happily give it existence.
Mind is not a location/place I can pinpoint for you.

Nor can you pinpoint it for yourself. Yet you seem to think things exist in them. Surely you have seen this place if you know it to be true.

Also I am not as gifted as you and cannot observe /see all frequencies UV light and all wave forms.
While we are at it you want me also to SHOW you where space is?

I cannot see UV light myself, but those that have had certain eye operations can. They are still human, therefor humans can see UV light.

If you tell me what space is I might be able to try and find it for you. But yes, whenever we point, we are pointing at something and not nothing.

All UV waves can’t be seen with your naked eyes .
All frequencies cannot be observed with your naked ears.
You can’t even sense still oxygen.
What instrument do you claim to use to recognize thought?
Words arise in my thoughts and I can sense( hear/see) words.
Do you sense thinking? Is this to you what makes you say thoughts exist?

I say thoughts exist because they take form when we write them down or speak them. I can use my eyes and ears as instruments to recognize this.

Only thought arises in thought. Your words in the mind are merely you thinking about words.

Do make up you mind about denying the existence of my/your mind.
MY words in the MIND is me thinking about words in the mind and there is no (physical) form yet as they are at that stage unspoken and unwritten.
So do my/your thoughts have form?
What thought arises in thought?

So when words/thoughts are not written down or spoken( and you can't point at them or prove them to others) do your thoughts not exist?
What instrument do you use to know the thoughts before you write or speak them?

You can’t even sense still oxygen but you believe it exists, you just believe in what you want.

You cannot sense every waveform, and the continual claims that you can are ridiculous. Only things that have form exist to you.
When you point at illusions you are pointing at nothing that looks like something.
I agreed to say from now on that if you believe that you are a mindless person then you are, I will think and refer to you in my mind as LM= LessMind=MindLess . righty ho LM .Great way to win a debate ignoring truth.
Verbal abuse doesn't hurt the person because there is no such thing as mind .
Chow.

reply to post by BDBinc

Do make up you mind about denying the existence of my/your mind.
MY words in the MIND is me thinking about words in the mind and there is no (physical) form yet as they are at that stage unspoken and unwritten.
So do my/your thoughts have form?
What thought arises in thought?

I have. You say that words exist in the mind, and now you say it is you thinking about them. Then you say they are words, but unspoken and unwritten words, and then you say those unspoken unwritten words are in the mind. That is like saying cookies uncooked and made of nothing are cookies. It is a lie.

So when words/thoughts are not written down or spoken( and you can't point at them or prove them to others) do your thoughts not exist?
What instrument do you use to know the thoughts before you write or speak them?

I think before I write them down. I am that instrument. What about you? Do you use a "mind"?

You can’t even sense still oxygen but you believe it exists, you just believe in what you want.

You cannot sense every waveform, and the continual claims that you can are ridiculous. Only things that have form exist to you.

You can't sense a mind but you believe it exists. You just believe what you want.

I don't know what "still oxygen" is. How do I believe it exists if I don't know what it is?

Even the thinnest hairs cast shadows. Name one thing that doesn't have form.

When you point at illusions you are pointing at nothing that looks like something.
I agreed to say from now on that if you believe that you are a mindless person then you are, I will think and refer to you in my mind as LM= LessMind=MindLess . righty ho LM .Great way to win a debate ignoring truth.
Verbal abuse doesn't hurt the person because there is no such thing as mind .
Chow.

The only truth you have shown is that you believe there is a mind. You ignore everything, including your own experiences and the very sensual existence you are a part of, to clutch to the idea like a baby to a rattle.

Call me mindless all you want. It means nothing just like your fantasies.

It's spelt "Ciao".

reply to post by Itisnowagain

When are they being seen?

Whenever someone looks at them.

LesMisanthrope
reply to post by BDBinc

 

Do make up you mind about denying the existence of my/your mind.
MY words in the MIND is me thinking about words in the mind and there is no (physical) form yet as they are at that stage unspoken and unwritten.
So do my/your thoughts have form?
What thought arises in thought?

I have. You say that words exist in the mind, and now you say it is you thinking about them. Then you say they are words, but unspoken and unwritten words, and then you say those unspoken unwritten words are in the mind. That is like saying cookies uncooked and made of nothing are cookies. It is a lie.

So when words/thoughts are not written down or spoken( and you can't point at them or prove them to others) do your thoughts not exist?
What instrument do you use to know the thoughts before you write or speak them?

I think before I write them down. I am that instrument. What about you? Do you use a "mind"?

You can’t even sense still oxygen but you believe it exists, you just believe in what you want.

You cannot sense every waveform, and the continual claims that you can are ridiculous. Only things that have form exist to you.

You can't sense a mind but you believe it exists. You just believe what you want.

I don't know what "still oxygen" is. How do I believe it exists if I don't know what it is?

Even the thinnest hairs cast shadows. Name one thing that doesn't have form.

When you point at illusions you are pointing at nothing that looks like something.
I agreed to say from now on that if you believe that you are a mindless person then you are, I will think and refer to you in my mind as LM= LessMind=MindLess . righty ho LM .Great way to win a debate ignoring truth.
Verbal abuse doesn't hurt the person because there is no such thing as mind .
Chow.

The only truth you have shown is that you believe there is a mind. You ignore everything, including your own experiences and the very sensual existence you are a part of, to clutch to the idea like a baby to a rattle.

Call me mindless all you want. It means nothing just like your fantasies.

It's spelt "Ciao".

"Chow' as in FOOD for the mind.
Words are not cookies. Words are not meaningless .
(But the mind does not exist to you, only thoughts and "meaningless " words outside of mind.) But we still don't know how or with what instrument you sense or recognize words/thought (without mind).

I don't ignore experience, I told you my experience , as a person I have been hurt by verbal abuse, I have seen other persons hurt by words.
That is why I argue that it hurts the person and can talk about it .
I am not invalidating the existence of unspoken and unwritten thought, nor am I saying I am mindless.

What was the instrument you said you used to prove these unspoken and unwritten thoughts?
Many things don't have form. What form has space. What form has your unspoken and unwritten thoughts?

LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

When are they being seen?

Whenever someone looks at them.

Quite right - the perceived and the perceiver are one.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Quite right - the perceived and the perceiver are one.

If they were one, the words would always remain in his sight. However, they don't. Thereby showing that the perceived and perceiver are many. In order to perceive one must first have something to perceive.

The words remain on the screen where they have always been. And without these words placed here before your perception has ever reached it, you wouldn't perceive them—like the moon, the sun and everything you have ever looked at. They arise despite your perception, despite you, despite your ignorance towards whether they exist or not. Your perception, your consciousness plays second fiddle to all that was there before it.

LesMisanthrope
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Quite right - the perceived and the perceiver are one.

If they were one, the words would always remain in his sight. However, they don't. Thereby showing that the perceived and perceiver are many. In order to perceive one must first have something to perceive. That which is being seen constantly changes but that which sees is constantly the same - never changing.

The perceived is constantly changing - the words may not be appearing but there is constantly an appearance.
Can 'the perceived' appear without a 'perceiver'?

Can the dream happen without a dreamer? Are they two things?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

The perceived is constantly changing - the words may not be appearing but there is constantly an appearance.

What you perceive isn't constantly changing, how you perceive it is. Are you perceiving perception? Are you breathing breath?

Can 'the perceived' appear without a 'perceiver'?

Are what the eyes see the same as the eyes?

Can the dream happen without a dreamer? Are they two things?

Only one is a thing. The other is what that thing does. Likewise with perceiver and perception. When you speak of "the perceived", you are merely speaking of how the perceiver perceives things. There isn't constantly an "appearance". There is constantly you looking.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope

I have. You say that words exist in the mind, and now you say it is you thinking about them. Then you say they are words, but unspoken and unwritten words, and then you say those unspoken unwritten words are in the mind. That is like saying cookies uncooked and made of nothing are cookies. It is a lie.

More unmitigated nonsense.

Actually, your assertion is like dogmatically claiming that a dozen cookies in a glass cookie jar on the counter are not at all there. Then you blather on endlessly insisting that the cookies are not in the jar . . . and how the cookies are everyone else's mental imaginations.

Sigh.

Though I would agree that your posts do illustrate & display a lot of knowledge about falsehoods.

I've given supporting evidence from research documenting brain level lexicons . . . i.e. dictionaries. You ignore the evidence.

You pretend that your fantasies about words and the brain are realities.

Your fantasies are false, wrong, inaccurate, absurd from the foundation up.

Yet you blather on as though endless spewing will persuade folks with an IQ above freezing.

Psychologically fascinating. We don't see THAT level of dogged, arrogant, tenacious absurdity on ATS all that often.

Yet you claim to know a lot about obsessions.

Evidently your mirrors are all shattered.

Words ARE in the brain . . . hardwired in . . .

Deal with it.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Can you or BDBinc or someone on that side of the argument please outline what exactly you are arguing. I am having a hard time following what your argument is but I genuinely want to understand your side.

Standard form would be nice, with Premise 1, Premise 2,... Conclusion.

Thanks.

reply to post by Wang Tang


1. Words are real. They are not ephemeral fantasies of nonexistence. They are real entities with real impacts--good or evil--on people--particularly children and the world.

2. Words ARE IN the brain--at the 'hardwired' level. I've posted upthread just a smattering of the scientific research documenting "lexicons" (dictionaries) in the brain.

3. Words that are destructive to developing BRAINS, PSYCHE'S, IDENTITIES, A SENSE OF WORTH

Read my tread on ATTACHMENT DISORDER HERE:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

. . . HORRIBLY DESTRUCTIVE WORDS AND PHRASES

e.g.

A) YOU'RE A WORTHLESS PILE OF ####
B) YOU'LL NEVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING
C) YOU'RE A LOSER AND WILL ALWAYS BE A LOSER
D) YOU'RE STUPID
E) YOU'RE BRAINLESS
F) YOU'RE AN IDIOT
G) YOU'RE AN ACCIDENT
H) YOU'RE USELESS
I) YOU'RE INCOMPETENT
J) YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN ABORTED
. . .
. . .

SUCH WORDS DO HURT--DEVASTATINGLY. THOSE and similar words help fill our prisons where 95% or more of the prisoners have serious degrees of ATTACHMENT DISORDER--many because of DEVASTATING WORDS like the above.

4. Such words are sooooo destructive, that when spouted dozens of times a day over the early years in a child's life, the child will end up physiologically BRAIN DAMAGED. MRI studies have documented that the brain centers which are responsible for emotional management and emotional expression as well as the center responsible for relationships and relationship management ARE PHYSIOLOGICAL DAMAGED--ABNORMAL--DISTORTED--MANGLED--NOT IN OPTIMUM FORM AND FUNCTIONING.

WORDS did that--not a ball bat nor a scalpel--but words hammered into the psyche of a developing child like a sledgehammer.

5. Yet the author of this OP would have the unthinking clueless [thinking folks know better from their own EXPERIENCES] believe that words not only do not hurt but don't even exist.

WHAT UNMITIGATED NONSENSE.

6. THE IDEAS THAT WORDS DO NOT HURT AND DO NOT EVEN EXIST is one of the most absurd things I've read on ATS or anywhere else in 66 years of living.

7. Not only do words DESTROY and exist--they are INTEGRAL to thought. It is extremely difficult, if not impossible for most people, to have THOUGHTS WITHOUT WORDS. Thoughts without words would be like music without sound and notes, frequencies, meter, cadence, etc. Thoughts without words would be like water without oxygen or without hydrogen.

8. PARENTS NEED TO KEENLY BE AWARE OF THE DEVASTATING POWER OF WORDS. AND INSTEAD, USE WORDS TO BUILD UP; strengthen the self-worth; the confidence; the hope; the RESILIENCE of their children from at least birth on.

9. The blather posted in this thread about words not existing and not having destructive impact in the case of verbal abuse of children is one of the more outrageously potentially destructive stinking piles of inaccurate, off the wall assertions that I've ever read on ATS in all my years hereon.

10. Children will sooner and more fully recover from being abused with a belt than they will being abused with WORDS.


11. People ignorant about the devastations of ATTACHMENT DISORDER desperately NEED to LEARN how horrific words can be toward destroying the hope their children have for a positive, constructive future--and to behave redemptively accordingly.

12. Anyone afflicted with the off the wall fantasy that words cannot be destructive and do not even exist . . . desperately need to at least adjust their reality testing, if not get a complete re-education from the foundation up.

I hope that's clearer.
.