Why the biblical religions are dangerous?

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
reply to post by dontreally

 

Once again, thanks to OP and all the posters for a wonderful thread.

Regarding the Hebrew bible/Torah/Tanakh---which people are the Israelites of today? Schlomo Sand and Arthur Koestler would argue that they are definitely not the Ashkenazi Jews of modern day Israel.

The Jews of the New Testament---were they primarily Judahites--or had 100 years of non-Israelite control by the "converted" Herodian Edomites (including the murder of the majority of the Sanhedrin in 37BC by Herod) changed the 'Jews" from primarily Judahite origin to primarily Idumaean (Edomite) origin? Do you think that they were the ones spoken of in Revelations as "Those who call themselves Jews, but are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan."?

The problem with this is that there were established Jewish communities and synagogs all over the Roman world. Whatever happened in Judea before and after the destruction of Jerusalem really didnt effect the scattered Jews as to some confusion about any edomite origins. And there was no confusion on pauls part or of the author of Hebrews as to the nature of these Jews that had setteled all over the northern med area.

While I realize there are good and moderate people every where, in general
They all think they don't have to take responsibility for their crimes and actions some savior will come along and fix everything they have ruinued...

They have the god given right to kill anyone who doesn't give their money to the same clique as they do and steal their land...and children...

as proof I offfer unhonored treaties, residential schools, and Israel

god given right?
show me the signed deed
please

Originally posted by studythem1
the problem with the psychology of the religion starts from the very beginning...we find that through examination of other texts contemporary or predating genesis that there are things not mentioned, and even that the text was redacted to better fit the politics and ideology that judaism finally became...and this was to make it appear to be one continuous work, but they were pretty sloppy at it, but this is not really a psychological issue...

the psychological issue starts in the portrayal of god...immediately after giving a summary of the origin of man, god is portrayed as a very mean spirited individual...who dislikes free will, and dislikes the truth, and punishes man almost immediately for trying to discover the truth...so adam and eve were trying to expose conspiracy, and this is immediately vilified...



they probably more than likely remade him into the same sacrifice to molech, a god they publicly detested but still secretly worship in their secret society, which has made its way all the way from israel to the bohemian grove...

All that the bohemiam grove would represent today is the everlasting and continued mixture of speaking big things in the name of yahweh while in reality being a bunch of secret worshipers of pagan gods. This is something they had always done and was pointed out by the prophets.

Its really a story of yahweh makinging himself known to a bunch of idol worshiping pagans, that brought their idols up out of egypt with them and took on all the ways of cannan once they got there. Yahweh was always about trying to get them to worship him alone. They in fact made a covenant with yahweh but never upheld their end of it.

reply to post by Logarock


Correct.

Ba'al> grov



Even the birds know whats up with these reptillian owl people getm skeeter !


Whore of babylon ^ OH golly where do i put all these snakes? I can't possibly fit anymore under my dress.

You mentioned a tree?


Yahweh cuts rotten trees down, Trees with snakes in them. Snakes and owls.

Yahweh>Osiris

I smell a revolution.

Revelation 5:5 ESV / 38 helpful votes

And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”

Hosea 5:14

For I will be like a lion to Ephraim, and like a young lion to the house of Judah. I, even I, will tear and go away; I will carry off, and no one shall rescue.

Ezekiel 19:1-9

And you, take up a lamentation for the princes of Israel, and say: What was your mother? A lioness! Among lions she crouched; in the midst of young lions she reared her cubs. And she brought up one of her cubs; he became a young lion, and he learned to catch prey; he devoured men. The nations heard about him; he was caught in their pit, and they brought him with hooks to the land of Egypt. When she saw that she waited in vain, that her hope was lost, she took another of her cubs and made him a young lion. ...

2 Timothy 4:17

But the Lord stood by me and strengthened me, so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed and all the Gentiles might hear it. So I was rescued from the lion's mouth.

Jeremiah 50:44
“Behold, like a lion coming up from the thicket of the Jordan against a perennial pasture, I will suddenly make them run away from her, and I will appoint over her whomever I choose. For who is like me? Who will summon me? What shepherd can stand before me?

^ already did god bro, that's how i know your identity

1 Kings 13:24-28

And as he went away a lion met him on the road and killed him. And his body was thrown in the road, and the donkey stood beside it; the lion also stood beside the body. And behold, men passed by and saw the body thrown in the road and the lion standing by the body. And they came and told it in the city where the old prophet lived. And when the prophet who had brought him back from the way heard of it, he said, “It is the man of God who disobeyed the word of the Lord; therefore the Lord has given him to the lion, which has torn him and killed him, according to the word that the Lord spoke to him.” And he said to his sons, “Saddle the donkey for me.” And they saddled it. And he went and found his body thrown in the road, and the donkey and the lion standing beside the body. The lion had not eaten the body or torn the donkey.

Isaiah 11:6-9

The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder's den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

Micah 5:8

And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the nations, in the midst of many peoples, like a lion among the beasts of the forest, like a young lion among the flocks of sheep, which, when it goes through, treads down and tears in pieces, and there is none to deliver.

Hosea 13:8

I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs; I will tear open their breast, and there I will devour them like a lion, as a wild beast would rip them open.

Job 28:8

The proud beasts have not trodden it; the lion has not passed over it.

Genesis 49:9

Judah is a lion's cub; from the prey, my son, you have gone up. He stooped down; he crouched as a lion and as a lioness; who dares rouse him?

Roused and roaring.

Revelation 13:2

And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.

Amos 3:7-8

“For the Lord God does nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets. The lion has roared; who will not fear? The Lord God has spoken; who can but prophesy?”

I found out that The Old Testament is pretty much obsolete in this days religion. New Testament replaced the Old Testament. Jesus Christ made the Old Testament obsolete. At least this is what Lutheran faith teaches.

Old Testament is only for study, New Testament is the word.

reply to post by NoSoul


Well, I'm very relieved to hear that I missed the point.

To be honest, you had me worried. Yes, I often wonder how people can think that way, too.
Thanks for clarifying.

reply to post by Xtrozero

That is all great, but it is actually up to me if I feel something is a waste of time...Its my opinion, so how could it not be up to me?

Yes, that's fine - but you said "THEY are wasting their time." I meant it's not up to you to decide if it's a waste of time FOR THEM. Sorry for the confusion.

One question, so you feel their are multi Gods?

No. I feel that whatever happened to get us here is impossible to "know" or "understand," and it's certainly NOT a human busybody sitting in the sky judging everyone, jealous, and has a torture-chamber ready for those who step on it's toes.

The OP is suggesting the Christian God is evil and his is not, so does that mean there are many?

I think he is suggesting that RELIGION is evil, not "the Christian God." The people who dreamed up all the accoutrements and the personality of said "God," simply to scare and control people.

As for if there is any "entity" that could be a conscious "Creator" paying attention to every single person's every thought, word, and deed, well, I don't know. I doubt it, though. Sounds just like an absentee boss with a sensor in everyone's brain, and that's just pretty preposterous. But I don't know. Hence. AGNOSTIC.

reply to post by Xtrozero

I think my main point is Religion has always had some kind or moral path attached to it and when religion has gone wacko in the past there has always been a moral compass to correct back to, but in situations without religion there tends to be no moral compass to get back on track once a society has drifted off and it just gets really really bad.

Point taken.

That does not make it true. I attended a conference last weekend with a debate between Catholics and Atheists (2 of each, a formal, timed debate) on whether God/Religion is the only source of morality. The Atheists won, hands down. People are quite capable of being kind, tolerant, helpful, and compassionate WITHOUT A GOD or some book "telling them to."

Your analogy of Pol Pot, Japan, and all that was due to "lack of religion" is like making the analogy that "all people in county X who are imprisoned for murder ate french fries, therefore eating french fries causes a person to murder." It's a false correlation. ATHEISM has nothing to do with VIOLENCE.

reply to post by MuzzleBreak

Evil Spirits seem to exist--both in non-corporeal from and in corporeal form--from the experience of many witnesses;; Do you think these are usually figments of imaginations--or actual entities.

I don't know. I think it's quite possible that people have seen or witnessed things they can't explain. To try to decide what those things "are" is beyond our ability at this time.

Many times these entities seem to be repelled by the name of Jesus--what are your thoughts?

I think there may or may not be ethereal beings among us, some helpful, others benign or mischievous, but calling them "Satan or Demons" is entirely subjective. One could call them Bob and Mike, if one wanted to, and say "KARL!" to them to repel them. Those are NAMES, not THINGS. The menu is not the meal. The map is not the territory. The name is not the thing itself. But, since I've never been in a situation to shout "Jesus!" at an evil spirit, after having tried "Karl", or any other name, I can't say.
('Supercalifragilisticexpeallidocious' seems to be a good one to keep in mind, though. And if you're wearing red glittery shoes and tapping your heels together it might help. )

Do guardian angels/spirits exist?

I think so, but I don't know. Too many near-misses and surreal sensations for it all to be coincidence or happenstance, in my opinion.

Is there an external group mind composed of the departed that is concerned with the welfare of their descendants?

I have no idea. I think the departed are still extant, but not visible or tangible to most of us under "normal" circumstances.

Thanks for posting. Very interesting. The god of war was Mars. Start from there and trace back. If you havent done so already I LOVE David Flynn's theological perspective but I also think that you need to study some of the etymology of God of war. Please take a gander at Cydonia, the Secret Chronicles of Mars. I believe that God was so stern about Judgement throughout the earlier times because the main goal of Lucifer was to corrupt the bloodline of Jesus Christ so that he would never be born. This, in my opinion is why God chose Noah because he was pure and untampered with. The days of Noah and pre Adamic theology are the most important topics to me besides the Gospels. Remember this though my friend and again thank you for posting but it is very easy to be mislead in faith because of what man does or what an institution does but remember that God is one and God is true and He is all loving. I love my son very much but if he rebelled against me would I not be upset? Would there not be punishment against my son? He is after all my creation. Think about that for a moment. The All Mighty Creator, God of Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Jacob, etc.. is very passionate about us, He created us out of HIS IMAGE. Thanks and God Bless!

Great reply and great examples my friend but I think that the problem with Atheism is that over time morality would be lost. Technology is catching up with us now and there are lots of ethical questions about cloning, synthetic DNA, nanobots, AI, etc... (See Tom Horn) What would society eventually lead to if these things were universally accepted? I think corruption...This is why the commandments are there. So that we have a guideline to morality. I believe that this is what happened during the Days of Noah. Man had lost everything and distanced himself from his creator. If the book of Enoch is true then Demons, fallen ones, Aliens, etc... were mingling with the daughters of men creating things that were NOT human. The first groups that will be persecuted are the Christians and the Atheists because we are the only belief systems that are not content on changing. Catholicism has shown time and time again that they condone ecumenism as well as others. If you believe that"The Elite" exists and have studied their beliefs (Knights of Malta, Free Masons, Rosicrucian, Illuminati, Skull and Bones, Vatican, etc..) then you will see that they worship the same Fallen one from the bible known as Lucifer. Is this not credible evidence that God exists and that the bible is true? Again please have a look at George H Pembers Earths Earliest ages as well as Gospel of the Stars, as well as Cydonia, the Secret Chronicles of Mars..I think I rambled there but anyway God Bless you guys. The Truth will set you free but only if you search for it with a humble heart.

reply to post by wildtimes

No. I feel that whatever happened to get us here is impossible to "know" or "understand," and it's certainly NOT a human busybody sitting in the sky judging everyone, jealous, and has a torture-chamber ready for those who step on it's toes.

It is not impossible to know how we got to where we are now. All you have to do is understand history. Not just read about it, but understand it.

Religion plays a very very big role on how we got to where we are right now. Religion is a very big thing to day on the political arena. Some just dont pay attention to the religious activities because they dont think it is related to them in their daily lives and duties.
We hear the words Muslim and Christians so much we dont know how important and significant it really is. We just relate to Muslimes and christians as being people who are either terrorists or fanatics. Because you dont pay attention to what is really happening you dont know what is going on.

Real or not. Religion plays a very big role on the plotical arena. Because a lot of people have faith in their religion. And som have faith in their democracy and politcal system, that there is bound to be a conflickt of interest.

The Pope is a very big religious figure and a political figure. There is a reason why our political figures/leaders visit the pope. It is not because the pope is insignificant. It is because a lot of people fallow the doctrine of the church. We all fallow the doctrine of the church, moste of you without being aware of it, because it is not important to you.

reply to post by spy66

Because you dont pay attention to what is really happening you dont know what is going on.

That would be true for people who aren't paying attention, spy, and I appreciate your remarks, but I study this stuff all day, every day - even on weekends.

I know "history" as it is written - I know what is happening on Capitol Hill and in State Capitols - and I know what religion is "up to" in this country.

reply to post by wildtimes


It is good to know that you have been keeping track. Maybe i can learn something from you Because i am studying this subject my self.

and I know what religion is "up to" in this country.

May i ask what religion is up in your country "Is it the US"?

reply to post by spy66

May i ask what religion is up in your country "Is it the US"?

Yes, my country is the USA.
I just started a new thread in this forum explaining what is going on behind the scenes. Hope you'll take the time to read it and comment.

reply to post by 1337s0lja


if there is any deception it is right in the scripture itself...the god that israel supports did not want adam and eve to have free will...free will is something that a good god would have to allow if he were truly good, and many theists recognize this, but then fall for the nonsense that completely goes against free will...

the problem i have with anthropomorphizing god is that any being that is everywhere, and is capable of creating the universe, could not be human...does not have human emotions, and is not subject to human mistakes or jealousy or any of the other flaws of humanity...just because we may do certain things, that does not mean we can superimpose our image on to a deity...

the idea that god was herding us like cattle to make sure that genetics were not tainted, is also repulsive to me, and completely goes against the true nature of god...again, the creator would not violate something that he/it created...free will...

the stories in the bible were specifically assembled and crafted in a way to make them appear to be right, they are compelling, emotionally appealing, and even have realistic elements in them, but the underlying goal of them was to get the mind used to the abuse of tyranny, to make it OK, and this negates any of the good that they claim to promote...because with tyranny comes all kinds of atrocities, and these terrible things doen in history in the name of god, are all modeled after the atrocities committed by the patriarchs and heroes of the old testament, along with the Jewish laws that these chosen were allowed to break while they condemned anyone else to death who did the same...that is tyranny...there is no excuse for it...Jesus challenged in his day the same type of tyranny among the Sanhedrin, and he was killed, because the same psychology was always there in the Torah...

true, you cannot blame a god for the sins of his people, but then we have to look at the evidence for what the god was like...and according to his own book, he is a murdering tyrant...that cannot be explained away by theologians sympathetic to a religious ideology that supports these actions and builds their theology from a book that supports murder and tyranny, they can try to ignore it and say "well things are different now" but the truth is they are not any different than now, its just that people are better prepared to dispute the evil, and to think for themselves and fight against evil in any form, even under the mask of good...the "things are different now" also negated the argument that god never changes...along with the theological problem that if god never changes, then how did he change his mind about creating man? how did he decide to change his approach about sacrifice and get more sneaky to achieve the same bloodshed but fool us into believing jesus sacrifice was final? theologians do not want to answer these questions...they cant because they have no idea where to begin...their arguments are based on logical fallacies that only worked well when people were all afraid of something enough that their fear blinded them to reason and common sense...

morality would not be lost if everyone were atheists...morality is not based on religion or the lack of it...

why do chimpanzees tend to be more violent than their cousins bonobos? much of it has to do with genetics, but even among both groups there are varying degrees of morality...

and neither of them have a religion, they just know what is right and wrong...

dogs also do not have religions...but they are very in tune with what is right and wrong...and the only way to change that is to subject them to so much abuse that their natural ability to tell right and wrong are broken, and they are trained to do terrible things...and this is well documented...just look in the news and find anywhere how pit bulls are being rescued every day that are being abused and trained to go against their natural ability to tell right from wrong...some of them are so far gone they have to be put down...

im also a bit annoyed that you assume i come to this conclusion about what the god of the bible is out of ignorance...i know the theological propaganda back and forth, i was raised in it...i went to seminary and quit because of the nonsense of it...i used to be a good christian, but the more i read, and the more outside proof that i saw, the more i began to see that the official story was all nonsense, and it was fabricated to enslave the mind...so it does no good to tell me i will find your truth...eventually...

i already have looked at it, and it is nonsense and misleading...

the elite created religion to control the masses, and yes even the judeo/christian/muslim ones...so there is nothing we can save from them in order to retain the "correctness" that may still be in them...that is a drug making excuses as to why you need it still

reply to post by CrypticSouthpaw

1. You need experience without experience all you are doing is relying on the words of other people without any foundation to start your *hunt* for knowledge.

O wise Guru, please enlighten us as to how we mere mortals might share in the experiences which have so opened your mind to the mechanism of reality. By what actions might we come to see and experience reality exactly as you have described it to us?

2. New souls are always trying to figure out the mysteries of the passed and the inner workings of the universe. Trying to tell people a bunch of hyper philophical points that excede reality and are realms of fiction and the mind. Not really based on any cosmic spiritual experiences with god and the 5 elements.

Wait... but, isn't your theory concerning Spirit and God being Dark Energy and Dark Matter something which "exceeds reality" and rests among the "realms of fiction and the mind" that you've just accused other spiritualists of residing in?

Methinks the Guru could use a mirror...

I find it hard to follow along what they are saying with people like that. The reason why i sound so far fetched is because i am nailing the nail on the head. And all those still trapped in the realms of fiction and mind are unable to see passed their conjured realities. Into the real and ultimate reality.

Oh, OK. Now it all makes sense.

Every other spiritualist claiming any kind of far-fetched spiritual insight is wrong because they're just feeding fuel to fantasies. But you, you're the real deal because... well, wait, why exactly are your far-fetched delusions any more believable than those of any other hack spiritualist who was inspired by a movie, or mockumentary, or conspiracy theory?

Are you honestly suggesting your "experiences" are more valid than any other individuals? And why? Because someone on the internet provided a picture with some side-notes which don't actually apply?

O how wise you must be to misinterpret misrepresentations of ancient mythology and sculpture!

Pot. Kettle. Black?

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by studythem1

the elite created religion to control the masses, and yes even the judeo/christian/muslim ones...so there is nothing we can save from them in order to retain the "correctness" that may still be in them...that is a drug making excuses as to why you need it still

This is a wonderful comment. I like it very much.

I find that the truly gratifying and soul-edifying element of religion is the mythology. But only good, true, untainted mythology. Back when mythology studied the human condition, and before theology got in the way and neutered the psychological understanding which mythology tried to bestow.

Mythology is a wealth of psychological and spiritual wisdom. Organized universal religion is a waste of breath.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Thebel


that would be nice if it were true, but many of the doctrines of the church are based off of OT theology...and OT theology is deeply flawed...

Lutheranism is just a milder version of catholicism that Rome was comfortable with allowing after they saw that Germans were not going to go for the pope cracking down on them...it was the evidence of a stalemate between a nation of people switching to Lutheranism and other similar ideas, and the fact that Rome could not do much to stop it without the support of the German state...it was a popular movement that was successful, and hated by Rome, but tolerated eventually...

why? because it essentially was not about the core doctrines of Rome, it was about the way things were being handled by Rome...the heavy handedness and corruption of Rome...

did it change much in the liturgy or the practices of the Lutherans compared to the roman catholic church? i cant tell the difference when i go to one or the other...they have the same liturgy, and the same robes, and only are there very minor differences that most people think are really huge, like preists being married...but essentially they are the same doctrinally...and the trappings are the same...

so what really changed? nothing

so lets go back further...what is the roman catholic church? it is the state religious arm formed by Constantine to force roman catholicism on the known world, his empire, and make everyone under his rule believe the same thing, to unify the people to support the state and stop the sectarian violence that threatened to tear the empire to pieces...he ordered the council of Nicaea, and at spear point made them "vote" on what was canon and what was not, he forced his doctrine on them and made them apply it to the scripture and somehow fit, this is why at places it seems contradictory or nonsensical especially in the new testament...so the NT is tainted by tyranny also...but he did not stop there...he made sure only the approved canon fit into the bible and was accepted...it had to pass the criteria for the tyranny and control he prescribed...

this was modeled after the Jewish old testament tyranny, he liked it so much he just had to use the same tyrannical model and psychological trickery to control the masses, so he merged their ideas with his own, and the pagan religious teachings, all to make his empire into one cohesive and single unit...

so there is nothing good we can save from the doctrines and misleading theology of the church, or what came before it...it is all good for study, but the study of it leads us to the truth that it is a lie, fabricated to enslave the mind...to prepare it to accept tyranny, and make government the real god...that is the underlying theme throughout all of it, and this cannot be ignored...any reference to Jesus being the underlying theme attempts to draw the eyes away from these glaring examples of evil all through the bible...not to mention the types of murder and bad behavior this theology has spawned for centuries...

i could go on but really i tire of beating an already long dead horse...

reply to post by Logarock


they would like you to believe that, it is a literary device to tug at the emotions, but not reality...it is more likely the result of a sect forcing their tyrannical ideas on other people, and eventually making enough of an influence for people to adopt it as the defacto religion...this was due to several geopolitical upheavals and the sect being in power at just the right time, in just the right place

a place refugees fled to to swell the population, a place nobody really wanted but people were forced to run to, and all these people were looking for leadership...and that leadership just happened to be the opportunists that promoted the tyranny of yahwism...so they gained this influence by being in the right place and the right time, and actually stepping up to the plate...not because of a special blessing of a tyrannical god...

it was opportunism and deceit that got them where they gained a foothold and held on to it now for centuries...not the blessing of a god that made them chosen...that is another tyrannical fallacy promoted to justify entitlement...of one persons right to abuse, lord over and kill others simply becasue a god says its ok...every tyrant has been guilty of using similar arguments...and they are all wrong...