Noticing a bad trend on ATS, it's sad...

Originally posted by Bluesma
How long has this site existed?

This is starting to sound like one of those old timer gripe fests you always see in forums after they've been around a while and are starting to grow popular.

My observation is a little different. It seems to me that it is often people who have been around for about a year or (on the outside) a year and a half that start a whole thread on how the quality of the site has gone down, usually not long timers. But I agree with you completely regarding the popularity aspect. They get some stars and maybe some applause and they think they can attempt to create a precedent of informal social sanctions in order to get people to behave the way that they (the griping OP) thinks everyone should. Which, (and here's the real sticker) oddly enough means you are usually behaving correctly only if you agree with them.

I'm reserving a final judgment on the motive, but I have to say I am suspicious there is at its core the same sort of ego driven "Thou Shalt Behave The Way That Validates Me The Most" sort of manipulation here. Even if it is presented in a way that is slightly more sophisticated than the norm. I hope I am wrong, and she is just reminding people to take a measured approach, (which, even then I think starting a whole flippin' thread about it is a bit Big-For-Her-Britches).

Personally, I think the site policy regarding Sandy Hook stepped over the line by a few toes, and I can honestly say that is the first time I disagreed with how moderation went here. The manifestation seemed harsher than necessary and a bit reactionary. But there is a hard path to walk between freedom of expression and trying to keep a certain standard of research, thought, and even decency and decorum. It is a slippery slope however. If you crack down too hard on speculation and expression you don't get measured debate and actual thought, you get conformity to a status quo and intellectual stagnation. I think that the social change because of that is part of why the OP felt it was appropriate to start this thread at all.

I hope that they continue to let people speculate personally. The community in general does a pretty good job of maintaining the line themselves in my opinion. and the moderators do a pretty good job of maintaining that line when the community doesn't, which is why I have been here for so long. It is really impressive what goes on here between the community and the moderators. However...

If the trend from Sandy Hook were to gain steam, and (therefore) the OP succeeds in her attempted social manipulation, I will be waving my goodbyes; which in and of itself won't really hurt any feelings, but I suspect I wouldn't be the only one.

reply to post by opethPA


I agree tracking down a lone wolf is way harder then a terrorist network , my example was indeed wrong.
But with all the CCTV and surveillance , bank account/spending tracking, internet there will be clues.

I hope they catch the bomber/bombers and let the law decide , any type of bombing or assault on innocent bystanders all around the world is brutal , how can you do this to unaware cilivians.

By far the most dumbest invention of the 20th and 21st century's , blowing up people ....what a heroes.

But what i tried to say in my first post but didnt came off right was the fact that Government and Civilians can and must work together to find the ones responsible , they are in the same boat.

TheGreazel

It was happening within the first 10 mins of the massacre.. Even when they were saying it could have been a gas line.. Evens aw a guy say "O it happened on 315 "and then started making # just from the number... Those are the type of people that make the rest of us look bad, when you try to expose the truth and corruption, they associate you with the "black helicopter" crowd, to quote Biden.

reply to post by onequestion


It's not so much the conspiracy threads that all appear that annoys me, it's the ones based on a clear agenda, ignoring facts, ignoring common sense, making such outlandish claims based on nothing but fantasy. They insult those killed and maimed, and they embarrass the ATS community.

The biggest embarrassment and insult is the suggestion that there are actors performing for the cameras at these tragedies. It defies all logic and all common sense, but people persist with this nonsense over and over again, like children refusing to accept a fact and choosing to accept a fantasy.

I support the investigative nature of ATS, and that there are clever people here able to analyse and assess things differently. But a theory has to be based in some element of fact, something tangible. Too many here don't seem to be capable of analytical thinking and are unable to consider probability - they believe the most unlikely thing because it suits their fantasy of a story, a belief they already have in their mind where the government is to blame, even when all the evidence tells the rest of us that it's complete nonsense.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by onequestion

 

It's becoming a knee-jerk reaction.
The basic premise is; the world is full of umpteen million people, and none of them are capable of commttting any evil action except the American government.
Which seems implausible, given the history of the world.

The foreign enemies of America must really love the "false flag" theory, because it means they can do anything they like towards America, and not get blamed.

edit on 16-4-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

my take exactly...there are plenty of countries and groups that would love nothing better than to see Americans fighting against each other. it would save them money and manpower, if a civil war broke out here.....remember when America was content with Iran fighting Iraq, 2 bad guys, killing each other off, while Russia and America got rich supplying arms and weapons.

I don't think anything has really change here on ATS. I think it's the same old same old.. Been that way since before I registered. There are more members now, so things get sensationalized quicker, but it's a conspiracy website and speculation is a staple of conspiracy theories.

I think people are listening to the mainstream so much that it is becoming politically incorrect to speculate anything beyond the official story today.. Call me crass, call me cold.. but these things happen, and the only way you'll ever find the truth is to dig. Sometimes it brings out the best in people and other times it brings out the worst. If you can't handle the speculation and degradation of the official story because you think it is "disrespectful" to the people who were a part of the event.. Then you're are in the wrong corner of the internet.

If you see something totally uncouth or false.. You can denounce it or ignore it.. You don't have to take part in it.

Originally posted by Hopechest
An interesting note on this topic.

There is never enough proof for any conspiracy otherwise it would become a fact and not a conspiracy.

Fake moon landing, not enough conclusive proof.
9/11, not enough conclusive proof.
Chemtrails, not enough conclusive proof.
NWO, not enough conclusive proof.

See a pattern?

You are wrong in your assumption.

Conspiracies are real, they do exist. To expose a conspiracy as fact does not make it a non conspiracy. You are confusing conspiracy theory with conspiracy fact. A non proven conspiracy is a theory, a proven conspiracy is a fact.

Read the definintion and then tell me you disagree...

Conspiracy

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated

Please learn the definition of a word before you try and misrepresent it to misinform us.

I think it's only a matter of time before conspiracy theorists are labelled mentally ill and listed in the DSM. The same will happen for radical religious people. Even normal religious people will be explained by an evolutionary change in our brain that led to the need for belief in a higher power.

When they don't come for you, you're comfortable. But one day they might come for you. And when somebody starts labelling you mentally disordered, it changes everything, including your composure. If you got teased when you were younger, you'll understand how it impacts your sense of security.

Mental disorders are real, obviously. But more and more you see them classifying more things as disorders. Once you're labelled as mentally disordered, people are given the green light to ignore you.

How do we even know what's a mental disorder? Well, when somebody says things or does things that're irrational and/or dramatically outside the norm. They can examine the chemicals in our brain and they can see if those're outside the norm. All of this is dependent on our collective knowledge. Our collective knowledge has done us well and it's the closest thing to truth. However, we should not think that our knowledge is perfect. We can look to the past and see that they were wrong about many things. Yet, we don't have the privilege to time travel 200 years into the future to see where we're wrong. Maybe if we could, we'd be a bit more cautious about what we intend on fixing.

I have a sister that became crazy. So I'm aware that society has to take measures to reign in mental insanity(s). When a person loses mental control we're forced to intervene, basically. However, where I draw the line is when the mental problem is not as severe. Society has troubles drawing this line. Why? Because the decision making process in society shifts around. It's not set. And the other reason is that our ability to observe and assimilate information is not a perfect process.

The thing is flase flags are an established fact and have been used by many for years. So some folks try to fit most anything into a false flag....big deal.

reply to post by Logarock

The thing is flase flags are an established fact and have been used by many for years.

Can you name them?

reply to post by samkent


Do your own research.

Reply to post by onequestion

It's the nature of the internet and the human condition.

The US still has people who think that their president was born in Kenya.

Some people are just ignorant and resistant to learning. The fact that a conspiracy website is abounding w/ conspiratorial theories pertaining to every current event, really isn't much of a surprise, is it?

You will do what every other member does. You will eventually realize you're typing to people who do not ingest any of the common sense you try to instill in them and you will move on.




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by spinalremain

You will do what every other member does. You will eventually realize you're typing to people who do not ingest any of the common sense you try to instill in them and you will move on.

Nooooooo then they have the only voice and the next step to idiocracy is complete.

I think that this site has far more people given to idle speculation than most.

But instead of expressing their views as speculation, they tend to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon before much information has been provided.

We still know little about the bombing in Boston. The bombs were apparently made in pressure cookers.

No one has claimed responsibility yet... Somehow, if this were an organized attack I think that we would have seen a group claim responsibility and also state why the attack was carried out. I also would think that if this was a politically motivated attack like the unibomber, we also would have seen some demands made by the person(s)

So, I think that we should wait and see what develops before we jump to conclusions.

So you are rantig about conspiracies on a conspiracy website?? Want a respect boston bombing article go to a news website

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by Logarock

 

The thing is flase flags are an established fact and have been used by many for years.

Can you name them?

Reichstag Fire, Lavon Affaire, USS Liberty, Gulf of Tonkin...those are just a few.

I won't bother mentioning any recent ones.

reply to post by onequestion


i here ya,

and when you do sit back & wait for the facts

it seems like there isn't any decent police work..

if they cant get the story straight

how are we supposed to?

Originally posted by reeferman
reply to post by onequestion

 

i here ya,

and when you do sit back & wait for the facts

it seems like there isn't any decent police work..

if they cant get the story straight

how are we supposed to?

How do you know there hasn't been any decent police work? They seem to have found out fairly quickly about how the bombs were made---seems like decent investigative work to me considering crap was blown all over the place.

The best evidence that this isn't anything like a false flag is that they aren't blaming this on anyone and are asking for help solving the crime.

reply to post by samkent


How about Pearl Harbor? Plenty of evidence for that being a false flag, and its generally considered to be an acceptable opinion these days.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by EA006
reply to post by onequestion

 

It's a forum. That's why people come here, to express and share opinions. The Boston marathon could be a false flag, but maybe not. Interesting how they were testing a new device for the ES that day, kind of like the mass training on 7/7 in London. Coincidence..............

Check it out. There was no "mass training" in London on 7/7. There was was a paper exercise going on in a room with half a dozen people which envisaged a similar scenario.

There was no involvement of police, medics etc so it had zero effect on what happened.

Check it out, there were large scale ES tests done on 7/7 to deal with exactly the type of scenario that happened on that day. It was reported on BBC news, and unless the tents and other apparatus they were using was paper then i'm fairly sure I seen and heard right.