Noticing a bad trend on ATS, it's sad...

Well, I usually don't assume a automatic "false flag" unless I see some pretty compelling evidence.

However, everyone does indeed have the right to express their opinion, and while doing so, they should provide some structure behind their claims. Which, for the most part, people do.

I view that everything is possible. Everything has a certain probability behind it. I don't believe certain events are false flags, but I do accept the fact that it was possible that it was indeed a false flag.

reply to post by onequestion


I used to feel the same after 9/11 and was tired of Bush being blamed for everything. But then I started to see "knee-jerk" after knee-jerk reaction from the government to make laws and create agencies that act as a police state and erode OUR rights in a false effort to make us "safe". It's an old tactic out of Sun Tzu to create a problem to create a solution. We should obviously not jump to conclusions when nothing has been concluded, but to stop asking questions and not to consider possibilities outside the realm of the media is a grave mistake.

The only real "false flag" that has emanated from this tragedy is the willful disregard of the truth by those who seek to espouse the FF theory.

You can't make a real decision on an event until you have a clue as to what really happened. Speculation is one thing, but declaring something you know nothing about as "x" or "y" long BEFORE the facts emerge is just sheer ignorance or petty attention seeking. It is or certainly should be beneath intelligent people to do so. Just because we believe we see a connection doesn't mean it's real.

We simply don't know what we don't know.

The term false flag has become something like a twisted battle cry of the woefully uninformed who want to appear as though they know something or the mentally stagnant who can't distinguish reality from their delusional and paranoid perceptions..

Put simply it appears to be Ego or paranoid delusion running amok..

It is pitiful. That much I am sure of.

The facts will be revealed at some point, then, and only and then, can we present our conjecture until our fingers are worn down to nubs, to do so now, sans any genuine data, is the height of hypocritical egomania/paranoid delusion.

ATS is much more than a "Conspiracy site", we seek critical thought and the denial of ignorance on just about every topic in the universe. How in the world can we expect to achieve that for this tragic event when we are ALL ignorant of what actually happened?

We can't.

To throw false accusations born of deluded constructs that emanate from an ill mind out as facts or even "theories" is treading into madness. Madness, or an agenda to deceive for some twisted sense of personal gain.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I don't think some give any thought or even care either way how NUTTY and outright paranoid to the point of illness that looks to people who don't live in this culture, for lack of a better word. It insures folks who aren't that die hard?

This is the problem in the first place, your not a hardcore conspiracy "nut" (for lack of a better word) if you just call conspiracy on everything and accept everything that you read online while denying any other view point, off line these people are normally members of cults.

edit
springer maybe start warning the users that consistently make threads with sensationalist titles that most of the time have no reflection on the content, while also deleting the thread......

This is a conspiracy site

This is a creative writing site, with a conspiracy bent.

reply to post by Springer

Originally posted by Springer
You can't make a real decision on an event until you have a clue as to what really happened. Speculation is one thing, but declaring something you know nothing about as "x" or "y" long BEFORE the facts emerge is just sheer ignorance or petty attention seeking. It is or certainly should be beneath intelligent people to do so. Just because we believe we see a connection doesn't mean it's real.

I hope someone from the media would listen to your advice. What you say is right. That opinion is not shared by the media outlets that provide the news.

It's no wonder people throw around the words "false flag" so often when we are inundated by false news constantly. The true problem isn't the recipients of the news, its the news providers. Until they see it how you see it, there will always be people putting the facts together for themselves and finding gaping holes in the "official" story.

reply to post by onequestion


You make an excellent point, but perhaps you could not post threads using a new cell phone you are still getting used to. The average text message is more legible than your OP.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Bluesma

 

And so far, there has been no viable conspiracy theories presented.

Oh, there's plenty trying really, really hard but they're all failing. Easily.

Oh... I just took that to be the beginning of how the process works... first off, a flurry of ideas get thrown out there, like a brainstorming session, then with time, as the days go by, they get whittled down with critical thought and analysis, argument and debate, until the ones with the most probable hypotheses emerge.


I have not read any of these threads though, so i speak from ignorance. I just assumed that is how these work on forums because that is what I see happen in real interactions when there is a dramatic event and everyone is talking about it. It takes a while for the alternative views to get more down to earth.

But whateva.

Originally posted by Danbones
so you advocate the beating of women?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
do you advocate bombing them too if they get uppity?

Execpt for the fact that I said that violence is acceptable if someone's attacking you, regardless of gender. Also, responding to someone accusing you making knee-jerk reactions with another knee-jerk reaction isn't the smartest idea in the world. It also isn't very smart to link to that post, since anyone reading said post can see that you're clearly wrong.

somew of us irrational people post references and stuff
what have you got?
nothin but substance free drivel
wow
thats a lot of stars you got there

edit on 16-4-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-4-2013 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

Too bad your references are irrelevant. The OP was complaining about knee jerk reactions to tragedies. You respond to this with a knee jerk remark that the OP is making the claim that no conspiracy has ever happened. You're exhibiting the same behavior the OP is speaking out against and in way, reinforcing their point.

reply to post by onequestion


I couldnt agree more, this is one of the reasons that I dont visit ATS as much as before, some people deny their own ignorance, which isnt what ATS is all about!

A worse trend is the numerous posters who can't spell, use proper grammar or punctuation and are apparently incapable of proofreading.

ATS has turned into what looks like an orgy of text messages, half of which make any sense.

We still have great members, but many of the best have simply left and taken their thoughtful, well thought out posts along with them and have been replaced by a different crowd who can't spell and thinks complete thoughts have a maximum of 140 characters(twitter reference for anyone who might not know).

There was more respect for ATS and fellow members in the past. Well thought out posts which are proofread, with proper grammar is a matter of respect, for ATS, for fellow members, for the topic being discussed. It means you care how you come across, want to further the conversation and do it in a thoughtful manner, just as you would at work. These text message like posts with little thought are a product of having less respect, both for ATS and your fellow poster. It says ATS and your fellow posters aren't worthy of the time it takes to type something legible and coherent with some thought behind it.

How long has this site existed?

This is starting to sound like one of those old timer gripe fests you always see in forums after they've been around a while and are starting to grow popular.

Boston bombing ... legless vet is used as a fake victim..?

It may or may not have been government sponsored terrorism. But somebody did something awful involving some type of bomb. Can anyone figure out motive on this at all? At least Sandyhook makes sense from a conspiracy point of view. This one is so happenstance, like the NY sniper deal.
Perhaps the thing to do would be to watch and wait and see what comes of it. Out of Sandyhook came an obvious attempt at severe gun control legislation. A piece of cake to figure out, but this one has me stumped. Unless they plan to use it as a pretext for searching book bags everywhere. Or some weirdo just hates running marathons.
The other thing that comes to my mind is how similar this is to the random bombings in places like the Gaza strip and West bank. Still, what would be the point? No one has taken responsibility yet or made any demands. Classic terrorist attacks usually have some type of motive.

I've been a member of ATS for quit a few years now, and generally i remain reasonably quiet. What happened in Boston is an awful awful act of terrorism, be it internal or external.

Now, given that some of the more enlightened members here are very well aware of the semantics associated with our various leaders (I'm not from the USA, but i am Western) in ensuring that we, the general public ARE POLARISED into supporting their required outcomes, for reasons we will never be informed of, how can we not listen to these fellow members, or at least explore their opinions?

Please please understand that I in no way intend to diminish, or have others believe that i do not feel sorrow for the innocent victims or their loved ones here. However, i DO APPRECIATE those amongst us that do raise the FALSE FLAG RED FLAG question.

OP, with all due respect, I disagree with you. What we are witnessing from other members is actually why we probably all joined in the first instance...

Personally I find the cries of every single event that takes place as being a false flag to be a bit frustrating.
Their is a certain element on this site that only seems to believe the following:

1. Random chance does not happen
2. Their are no bad people, no terrorists, no violent, no sadistic, no dangerous people in the world only the events of the IllumiNWO.
3. America is to blame for every single problem that has ever happened any where in the world over the history of time.

I have yet to see anyone say "everything is wonderful, their are no conspiracies!" yet on a daily basis you can find people that insist "everything that happens is a conspiracy."

Look at Boston..Their are people that are convinced no one was hurt, it's all actors, nothing is real because some post on Facebook claimed so. This site has Deny Ignorance for a tag line yet a certain element seems to forget the ability to logically or critically look at anything and automatically jumps to "false flag" . I joined here because i wanted to get facts and take part in interesting debates not have someone tell me BS spooky Mulder theories.

As a side note to my list above I should add that Arken sees aliens in every rock on Mars! =)

Originally posted by pigsy2400
reply to post by onequestion

 

I couldnt agree more, this is one of the reasons that I dont visit ATS as much as before, some people deny their own ignorance, which isnt what ATS is all about!

Meanwhile our wealth, productivity, land, property, and illusions of freedom and sovereignty are being sucked out of us..... .......................but to swquack on websites and forums without actually doing anything.

It’s like living in a fantasy world, and each new idea creates a new twist to the plot that never has any actual ending, because the social media stops people from actually BEHEADING the queen or the Pope or the presidents and instead keeps us in a dream state of socially interconnected nonsense!
Welcome to your self-created and perpetuated Matrix – Facebook, Infowars, Youtube
That is why social media was invented and so well funded by governments and corporations – not to connect the people to the world but to disconnect the people of our country by making them interconnected in their minds.

This realization, it seems, is the true state of “waking up”.
....This is the Matrix....

We are victims of our own ignorance and willful consent and compliance to the tyranny and oppression......

reply to post by onequestion


So we shouldn't speculate about possible false flags on a conspiracy site? Am I on the wrong site? IMHO as long as the discussion is kept within the realm of decency, and the victims and their families are kept out of it, there is nothing wrong with speculation.

I'm more concerned with censorship.

Everyone knows this one:

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

reply to post by undercoveragent

I used to feel the same after 9/11 and was tired of Bush being blamed for everything. But then I started to see "knee-jerk" after knee-jerk reaction from the government to make laws and create agencies that act as a police state and erode OUR rights in a false effort to make us "safe".

That's because we expect our government to do something. Do anything!
But what the population doesn't fully understand is the only thing Congress is allowed to do is create laws.
Therefore they create a new law which has to restrict someones freedom.
Remember in the US anything is allowed until a law is created that prevents it.

Originally posted by Hopechest
An interesting note on this topic.

There is never enough proof for any conspiracy otherwise it would become a fact and not a conspiracy.

Fake moon landing, not enough conclusive proof.
9/11, not enough conclusive proof.
Chemtrails, not enough conclusive proof.
NWO, not enough conclusive proof.

See a pattern?

Yes indeed, a pattern of people failing to use a dictionary.

Facts are proofs, and a conspiracy is when two people agree to commit a crime.

As a somewhat bystander (not living in the USA) it is indeed a little bit tiring when everything out there is a false flag to deceive the american population. I use this site to see what is happening across the pond, what the thoughts/feelings to recent events are in the USA, because my european view is somewhat limited on the more global events. And I notice this false flag reflex with Boston too, just like with the Sandy Hook massacre.
I would love to read a good explanated conspiracy theory about recent events but instead I have to find the one good apple (topic) in the 10 other bad apples, which is not really fun.

So, in a manner of speaking, everybody just calm down, gather some facts (or wait for facts to emerge) and evolve your theory from there. Not just spilling every thought you have out in the hope to hit accidently the nail.