Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen
When have I said that understanding the trinity is necessary for salvation? Kindly cite my words.

You would not be fighting so hard against Modalism and doing it with such hatred if you did not believe that the trinity was necessary for salvation.

I don't know where you come up with this constant persecution complex -- I don't hate you, Reckart or your silly theology. I believe that you can still be saved, even if you're a heretic, because it's up to God. But, because we know that Modalism is not what Christ taught, or is represented in scripture, your teachings, if not refuted, could lead some people to abandon the faith all together, and that's something to be avoided.

You're unlikely to ever convert any critically thinking person, but you might convince one of them that Christianity, as a whole, is nonsensical, just because your theology is. I know if you were the first person to explain Christianity to me, I'd tell you to jump in a lake.

All that the Bible teaches about the Godhead is that there is one God and that one God was manifest in the flesh as the Son of God.

As I said, your Modalism makes a mess out of the Bible, so it obviously is not scripturally based.

Arius did not believe that Jesus was 100% God in human flesh as we do. My teaching that Jesus, while still being 100% God, humbled Himself into the role of a man is Biblical.

No, what you have been saying is that sometimes Jesus was God, sometimes he was man. That's Arianism.

Sounds like your cult has some serious body image and/or self control issues. Not that I'm asking to see Reckart in a Speedo, mind you

It sounds to me that you lack inward holiness and self control if you want to see anyone in a speedo.

Kindly indicate where I said I wanted to see anyone in a Speedo.

and baptism in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

As I have said, those words are questionable.

And yet you are unable to produce an original Bible that does not include that text. Your "Hebrew Gospel of Matthew" is a medieval forgery, though to your credit, you haven't brought it up since I pointed that out.

Even if Jesus did say them, the word "name" is singular and the apostles understood that to be the name Jesus Christ.

So you think that passage says "baptize them in the name of Jesus, in the name of Jesus and in the name of Jesus"?

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by jcutler12888
reply to post by jcutler12888

 

What does your church/denomination do/believe in that is out of the ordinary with your everyday garden variety Christianity?

1. We do not teach the trinity. - We teach as the Bible teaches, that there is one God and this one God was manifest in the flesh as the Son of God. To teach that "God is three persons" is an addition to the Bible since the teaching is not found there. Tertullian in 200 AD was first to teach the trinity.

2. We teach what Peter taught - that repentance, baptism in Jesus name, and receiving the Holy Ghost, Acts 2:38, is necessary to faith and salvation. All who accepted his words were born again through water baptism and Spirit baptism and were added to the Church through their faith.

3. We reach for perfection in inward holiness which often shows outwardly - Many, Adjensen included, say that our outward holiness makes us "Pharisees". That is not true. The Pharisees had outward holiness without the inward holiness. Jesus did not teach against all outward holiness, only against outward holiness that did not come through inward holiness. See Matt. 23:27-28

4. We teach that the Church is spiritually Jewish and not Gentile.- Paul taught that being truly Jewish was about faith in the Jewish Messieh and not in physical things such as circumcision. Jesus is our King. He is King of the spiritual and true Jews.

5. We take communion in remembrance of Christ yearly at Passover. This is what Christ instituted on His last Passover when He said this you do in remembrance of me. The apostle John passed this tradition on to Polycarp and probably Ignatius also.

6. We teach that "YHWH", which is a name used in witchcraft, is not the name of God. The name that God told to Moses was Ehjeh asher Ehjeh, which shortened to Jeh is where the name Jesus (God saves) comes from.

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate the detail.

Originally posted by adjensen

I don't know where you come up with this constant persecution complex -- I don't hate you, Reckart or your silly theology.

It is clear from your posts that you post out of hate due to your slander and from the words that you use. Calling people "cultists", "witches", "bigots", "hypocrites", "Nazis", "hillbilly pastors"... when they obviously are not those things is not Christian and can come only from hate in your heart.

It is partially due to the hate I have seen from you and other Catholics through out Catholicism's history that I would never convert. Burning people at the stake, crusades, inquisitions, holocausts, deception, slander, are just not for me and I would never want to be a part of such religion.

Originally posted by adjensen

As I said, your Modalism makes a mess out of the Bible, so it obviously is not scripturally based.

You have not yet shown how sticking to what the Bible teaches "makes a mess out of the Bible".

Originally posted by adjensen

No, what you have been saying is that sometimes Jesus was God, sometimes he was man. That's Arianism.

I have said no such thing. I teach that Jesus was at all times God in flesh in the role of a man. This is Biblical teaching. He was at no time only partially God.

Originally posted by adjensen

And yet you are unable to produce an original Bible that does not include that text.

I can show you Luke's account of what Jesus said, which is different. I can also show you how whether Jesus said Father, Son, and Holy Ghost or not, the apostles baptized only in the name of Jesus Christ. Either Jesus did not say those words or the apostles understood the singular name to be Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by jcutler12888
reply to post by jcutler12888

 

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate the detail.

You are welcome. If you have any questions or anything, i'll be glad to help.

illuminati - divide n concore

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

I teach that because baptism is what saved people do. Getting wet doesn't make someone trust Jesus as their Savior. People do that after they believe in Christ as their Savior.

How telling, very Protestant to say "I teach"... Isn't it what Christ teaches?

Small children in families can't discern, they haven't gone up for the "altar call", still you see from the beginning
entire families were baptized and not because they were "saved" as you say. You receive the Grace of God,
for the first time, His presence in your soul at Baptism. would you not wish this for your child as soon as possible? Makes perfect sense, for a parent very wise.

Peter tells you 'baptism' saves you, he says the very words...

1 Peter 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

reply to post by colbe

How telling, very Protestant to say "I teach"... Isn't it what Christ teaches?

He told us to go out and teach. I've seen you trying to teach on these forums so let's not be a douche this morning okay Colbe?

Originally posted by truejew

It is partially due to the hate I have seen from you and other Catholics through out Catholicism's history that I would never convert. Burning people at the stake, crusades, inquisitions, holocausts, deception, slander, are just not for me and I would never want to be a part of such religion.

TJ, adjensen is trying to help you accept the faith. How can you quote the names of the Early Church Fathers and ignore what they believed? They were all Catholic.

And your general list to try and prove the faith is bad. Excuse me, the crusades were Catholic men defending the Holy Land. There was a Protestant inquisition too and how many millions of Irish Catholics did Cromwell starve to death? Yours one sentence is so specific "holocausts", what holocausts? Name the "deception" and "slander?"

Man is capable of sin, in every walk of life. The fact that we are all sinners doesn't make the faith false. Judas spent three years with Our Lord, he chose not to believe.

Prophecy reveals many many non-Christians will convert at the time of the Great Warning and some Protestants will accept and convert. The stubborn souls will be the already followers of the anti-Christ, apostate Protestants and Cafeteria weak in the faith Catholics. Again, God is going to show the world Catholicism is the faith but after God's gift, good luck to you if you stubbornly say no. The reason it is so important you accept what Catholics are trying to share with you.

August 6, 2007

GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN

My son the persecution of my faithful Catholics will come from: the followers of the man of sin, lukewarm Catholics, and apostate protestants. For I am the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hebrews 13:8. When an anti-pope sits in the chair of St. Peter, lukewarm Catholics will follow his false teachings. Those of my faithful Catholics will be persecuted by those who follow this anti-pope. Those protestants who are deceived by Satan into believing my Catholic Church is the antichrist, will also persecute my faithful Catholics, with the rise of this anti-pope. The hordes of hell will try and crush my church. Only those who are living in the humility of my divine will with my divine life in their souls, will survive the persecution and deception to come. But, woe to those who persecute my church. For you are truly persecuting me. God will not be mocked. ...

www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org...

Originally posted by colbe

TJ, adjensen is trying to help you accept the faith.

Then he is doing a poor job of it. Slandering people is not the way to "help" someone.

Originally posted by colbe

How can you quote the names of the Early Church Fathers and ignore what they believed? They were all Catholic.

They were Apostolic. They taught doctrines that are condemned by the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by colbe

There was a Protestant inquisition too and how many millions of Irish Catholics did Cromwell starve to death?

Again, I am not Protestant.

Originally posted by colbe

Yours one sentence is so specific "holocausts", what holocausts?

Are you denying that the holocaust, led by a Catholic Hitler, took place?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by colbe

 

How telling, very Protestant to say "I teach"... Isn't it what Christ teaches?

He told us to go out and teach. I've seen you trying to teach on these forums so let's not be a douche this morning okay Colbe?

Let's not get into the unchristian name calling this morning.

reply to post by truejew


Judge someone else. I don't need character councelling from a person who rejects the council of people based on their gender.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

I don't know where you come up with this constant persecution complex -- I don't hate you, Reckart or your silly theology.

It is clear from your posts that you post out of hate due to your slander and from the words that you use. Calling people "cultists", "witches", "bigots", "hypocrites", "Nazis", "hillbilly pastors"... when they obviously are not those things is not Christian and can come only from hate in your heart.

As I have told you numerous times, I don't use words lightly, and I understand what they mean.

I called Reckart a bigot because he is one. His own words, not something I imagined or fabricated. I said that your belief that the words and phrases used control what God can and cannot do was "Christian witchcraft", because that's what it is - witchcraft is the belief that words or rituals control the supernatural.

And I never called you a Nazi, that's an out and out lie.

I do not hate you. I do not respect you, and I do not think you are right, but whether you are condemned for your heresy and attempting to lead others away from Christianity is up to God, not up to me.

As I said, your Modalism makes a mess out of the Bible, so it obviously is not scripturally based.

You have not yet shown how sticking to what the Bible teaches "makes a mess out of the Bible".

The Bible does not teach Modalism, but let's see what a mess it makes with a simple exercise -- since you think the name of God is Jesus, let's replace all references to God with Jesus in a couple of passages:

In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with Jesus, and Jesus was Jesus. Jesus was with Jesus in the beginning. (John 1:1-2 NIV)

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and Jesus saw Jesus descending like a dove and alighting on Jesus. And Jesus said, “This is Jesus whom I love; with Jesus I, Jesus, am well pleased.” (Matthew 3:16-17 NIV)

Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.

No, what you have been saying is that sometimes Jesus was God, sometimes he was man. That's Arianism.

I have said no such thing. I teach that Jesus was at all times God in flesh in the role of a man. This is Biblical teaching. He was at no time only partially God.

You have said that when Jesus was "talking to God", it was Jesus, a human, talking to God, a separate entity. Are you now saying that when Jesus spoke, it was God speaking, and that he was arguing with himself?

And yet you are unable to produce an original Bible that does not include that text.

I can show you Luke's account of what Jesus said, which is different. I can also show you how whether Jesus said Father, Son, and Holy Ghost or not, the apostles baptized only in the name of Jesus Christ. Either Jesus did not say those words or the apostles understood the singular name to be Jesus Christ.

No, what you can show is that the author of Acts said that. There is no evidence, outside of that book, that anyone ever taught it until 1914 -- Matthew and the Didache are two separate early sources that explicitly say trinitarian baptism.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by colbe

Yours one sentence is so specific "holocausts", what holocausts?

Are you denying that the holocaust, led by a Catholic Hitler, took place?

No, no, no...you can't blame the Holocaust on Catholicism just because Hitler CLAIMED to be a Catholic. He believed Jews were subhuman and that all forms of Protestantism was for weaklings...he was merely impressed by the power the Catholic Church held and claimed to be a Catholic/Christian because he would say anything to make the people like him. He also buddied up to the Vatican with his lies to gain support and power but he wasn't truly a Catholic at all. Catholics and clergy were killed in concentration/death camps as a part of Hitler's religious persecution...he was, in fact, an irreligious man who only believed in a German/Aryan "God".

HE WAS A MADMAN...his lies about his religious views mean nothing because they were just lies. So, if you were to alter your statement to say "Are you denying that the Holocaust, led by a madman Hitler, took place?", you would then be correct.

reply to post by jcutler12888


And what people don't know or fail to put into the equation is that Hitler was a master of propaganda and said it should always be aimed at the masses. When Hitler was speaking to the people, who were 80% Christian, he acted and spoke fondly of Christians/Christianity. However, when speaking to his inner circle, and friends he spoke about hating Christianity and the Jews.

Hitler was a liar who knew how to fool the masses.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Judge someone else. I don't need character councelling from a person who rejects the council of people based on their gender.

You are the one who called a woman a name that is very offensive to women.

reply to post by adjensen


You need to repent of your hate before it leads you to commit the sins of previous trinitarians.

Originally posted by jcutler12888

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by colbe

Yours one sentence is so specific "holocausts", what holocausts?

Are you denying that the holocaust, led by a Catholic Hitler, took place?

No, no, no...you can't blame the Holocaust on Catholicism just because Hitler CLAIMED to be a Catholic. He believed Jews were subhuman and that all forms of Protestantism was for weaklings...he was merely impressed by the power the Catholic Church held and claimed to be a Catholic/Christian because he would say anything to make the people like him. He also buddied up to the Vatican with his lies to gain support and power but he wasn't truly a Catholic at all. Catholics and clergy were killed in concentration/death camps as a part of Hitler's religious persecution...he was, in fact, an irreligious man who only believed in a German/Aryan "God".

HE WAS A MADMAN...his lies about his religious views mean nothing because they were just lies. So, if you were to alter your statement to say "Are you denying that the Holocaust, led by a madman Hitler, took place?", you would then be correct.

edit on 8/1/2013 by jcutler12888 because: (no reason given)

I would like to agree with you, but the holocaust was not just a one time thing. Catholics and Protestants have been murdering Jews, both naturally born and spiritual, and others that they accuse as "heretics", "witches", "cultists"... throughout its history.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Judge someone else. I don't need character councelling from a person who rejects the council of people based on their gender.

You are the one who called a woman a name that is very offensive to women.

Let's be honest for 5 seconds shall we? I said don't act like a douche, I never said "you are" a douche.

So, no, I didn't "name call" anyone.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jcutler12888

 

And what people don't know or fail to put into the equation is that Hitler was a master of propaganda and said it should always be aimed at the masses. When Hitler was speaking to the people, who were 80% Christian, he acted and spoke fondly of Christians/Christianity. However, when speaking to his inner circle, and friends he spoke about hating Christianity and the Jews.

Hitler was a liar who knew how to fool the masses.

Sounds like a Catholic to me. They play Christianity on the outside, but inwardly are wolves.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Judge someone else. I don't need character councelling from a person who rejects the council of people based on their gender.

You are the one who called a woman a name that is very offensive to women.

Let's be honest for 5 seconds shall we? I said don't act like a douche, I never said "you are" a douche.

So, no, I didn't "name call" anyone.

It is still offensive to women.