Protestant disinfo debunked-Catholics are also Christians

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew

 

Except the word "kurios" isn't a name, it's a title.

God was only known by titles and partial name, until His full name, Jesus was revealed.

Originally posted by Deetermined

No one is going to deny that Jesus Christ is Lord, but what you fail to recognize is that he was LORD all along, from the Old Testament to the New Testament, from the First to the Last, and from the Beginning until the End.

Jesus Christ is Lord (Old Testament and New Testament), not YHWH/LORD.

reply to post by truejew


Except that YHWH, Jehovah, Adonai, LORD God, God Almighty, I AM and whatever else he was referred to (other than Ba'al) is all referring to Jesus.

I'm just going to close by listing a few scriptures that I hope will give you a better understanding of what I'm talking about.

Exodus 6:2-3

2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

Zechariah 14:9

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

Revelation 19:12

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

Mark 12:29

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew

 

Except that YHWH, Jehovah, Adonai, LORD God, God Almighty, I AM and whatever else he was referred to (other than Ba'al) is all referring to Jesus.

Incorrect. YHWH, Jehovah, and LORD do not refer to Jesus

Originally posted by Deetermined

Exodus 6:2-3

2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the Lord:

3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

The name Jehovah can only be traced back to 1270 AD. The Septuagint has Kurios/Lord instead.

Exodus 6:2 And God spoke to Moses and said to him, I am the Lord. 3 And I appeared to Abraam and Isaac and Jacob, being their God, but I did not manifest to them my name Lord.

The rest of the scriptures you posted I do not see as having anything to do with the discussion or would be a repeat of Kurios instead of YHWH.

reply to post by truejew


Besides that fact that you overlook the obvious that YHWH was referred to as Lord in the Old Testament too, here's what I think (my opinion only)...

Based on your avatar, "truejew", I'm going to assume that you are of Jewish heritage and maybe you're one of only a few in your family and circle of friends who are Messianic Jews.

The fact that you tend to ignore the Old Testament leads me to believe that you're so used to hearing Jews state that YHWH is God, while Jesus Christ is not, that you take a hard line stance on the opposite side denouncing YHWH altogether as having anything to do with God/Jesus.

What perplexes me (and something I ponder often) is when Jesus says this...

John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.

John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 14:7 - If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Jesus also made it clear that his father was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (which is YHWH).

So, the question I have is, if you accept one and not the other, have you technically just rejected both without realizing it?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew

 

Based on your avatar, "truejew", I'm going to assume that you are of Jewish heritage and maybe you're one of only a few in your family and circle of friends who are Messianic Jews.

I was gentile by birth, but Jewish by faith in Christ.

Originally posted by Deetermined

The fact that you tend to ignore the Old Testament leads me to believe that you're so used to hearing Jews state that YHWH is God, while Jesus Christ is not, that you take a hard line stance on the opposite side denouncing YHWH altogether as having anything to do with God/Jesus.

I do not ignore the Old Testament. I denounce YHWH because it is Baal, not God.

Originally posted by Deetermined

John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.

Yes, but His Father is not YHWH. His Father is Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Deetermined

John 8:24 - I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Yes, but "I am" is not YHWH, He is Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Deetermined

John 14:7 - If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Yes, but the Father is Jesus Christ, not YHWH.

Originally posted by Deetermined

Jesus also made it clear that his father was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (which is YHWH).

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was known to them as "God", not YHWH, and His name has now been revealed to us as Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Deetermined

So, the question I have is, if you accept one and not the other, have you technically just rejected both without realizing it?

If I have the Son, don't I have the Father also since there is one God?

reply to post by truejew


Now I know why everything you say sounds so backwards to me (beginning with your first statement) and why you never use links or scripture to back up your beliefs. You only know how to repeat yourself.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew

 

Now I know why everything you say sounds so backwards to me (beginning with your first statement) and why you never use links or scripture to back up your beliefs. You only know how to repeat yourself.

Since there is no Scripture that mentions YHWH, either for or against, I am not sure what Scripture you want me to post. As I have said, the lack of YHWH in credible scripture and it's use in witchcraft should concern you.

reply to post by truejew


Maybe it should concern you that people use Jesus to practice "Christian Mysticism" then.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by truejew

 

They, being Grecians, used IEUE which is the same as YHWH, as the English alphabet evolved from the Greek and the Greek from Aramaic. I have showed you this many times.

If that was the case, Luke would have used IEUE in Luke 4:18. Neither YHWH, nor IEUE are there.

No but Kuriou is there, and the jews back then had a tendency to replace IEUE/YHWH with Kuriou or Adonai (they still do it today), under the clause that his name was too sacred to say, a tradition he never sanctioned. A tradition implemented by the Pharisees, turning a curse the Lord laid on the jews who chose to run to Egypt when Nebuchadnesser II invaded Judea. The Lord said if they stayed in their land he would keep them there, but any who ran back to Egypt would die there, the sword they feared would find them. Sure enough, the jews who went to Egypt died when Nebuchadnessar II invaded Egypt he killed every one of them.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew

 

Now I know why everything you say sounds so backwards to me (beginning with your first statement) and why you never use links or scripture to back up your beliefs. You only know how to repeat yourself.

Since there is no Scripture that mentions YHWH, either for or against, I am not sure what Scripture you want me to post. As I have said, the lack of YHWH in credible scripture and it's use in witchcraft should concern you.

The only one who used his name to cast spells is Solomon, and he used it to control demons. That does not mean the Lord's name is evil. There is plenty of scripture that mentions IEUE, in fact it was mentioned over 3000 times in the scriptures before the KJV. It is also mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls many times, taken right from the book of Isaiah that was found with the DSS. Isaiah would have definately known his name.

ancient hebrew.org

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew

 

Maybe it should concern you that people use Jesus to practice "Christian Mysticism" then.

I have yet to see the name of Jesus on a tarot card with a demon and never heard of it being used by Aleister Crowley in his rituals.

reply to post by truejew

Jesus Christ is Lord (Old Testament and New Testament), not YHWH/LORD.

I'm looking forward to reading your explanation for the differences between God, Lord, LORD, and LORD God in the Old Testament.

reply to post by truejew


What does that have to do with Christian Mysticism?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by truejew

 

Now I know why everything you say sounds so backwards to me (beginning with your first statement) and why you never use links or scripture to back up your beliefs. You only know how to repeat yourself.

Since there is no Scripture that mentions YHWH, either for or against, I am not sure what Scripture you want me to post. As I have said, the lack of YHWH in credible scripture and it's use in witchcraft should concern you.

The only one who used his name to cast spells is Solomon, and he used it to control demons. That does not mean the Lord's name is evil. There is plenty of scripture that mentions IEUE, in fact it was mentioned over 3000 times in the scriptures before the KJV. It is also mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls many times, taken right from the book of Isaiah that was found with the DSS. Isaiah would have definately known his name.

ancient hebrew.org

Sources such as the Dead Sea Scrolls come from a time in which Baal worship was a major problem for Israel.

reply to post by truejew

I was gentile by birth, but Jewish by faith in Christ.

There are no jews or gentiles in Christ, so what you're saying is completely unscriptural.

I do not ignore the Old Testament. I denounce YHWH because it is Baal, not God.

"Ba'al" is just a generalized Canaanite word for "Lord", no different than a Hebrew saying "Adonai". The god of Ekron you are trying to speak about, is "Ba'alzebuwb" which is "the Lord of Flies" meaning the god of death, or as we know him the Angel of Death who is satan the Destroyer not Yahweh Sabaoth. That is why I say the catholic version of Mary is Asherah, the bride of the serpent.

Yes, but His Father is not YHWH. His Father is Jesus Christ.

That's a paradox.

Yes, but "I am" is not YHWH, He is Jesus Christ.

He's both, because Jesus is Yahweh or perhaps you never read:

Proverbs 30:4

4 Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son’s name,
If you know?

His name is Yahweh (IEUE) and his son's name is Yahshuweh (Yeshua). Jesus did say he came in his Father's name, look at the two names.

John 5:37-43

37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

Yeah he was right about that. He came in his Father's name and you don't receive him, but you will receive him if he came in his own name. Ouch, you got lumped in with the Pharisees .

As for proverbs 30:4, who ascended or descended? Hrm, well John 3:13 and John 3:31. Who gathered the wind in his fist? Hrm, well Matthew 8:23-27. Who has bound the waters in a garment? Hrm, well prophetically waters refers to multitudes of people, and that garment is a white robe. What is his name if you know? Yahweh Tsidkenu.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was known to them as "God", not YHWH, and His name has now been revealed to us as Jesus Christ.

Read Genesis 22 in the Hebrew, or you can look up Strong's H413-H3068 H410 H5945 H7069 H8064 H776 in that order.

Read Psalm 68:4 (IE/Yayh), Exodus 15:2 (IE/Yayh is my salvation = Y'shuweh)

But I think you will continue to stonewall and...

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


For some reason, "truejew" doesn't appear to understand anything Jewish and has some odd fascination with the Greek Septuagint.

Here's some interesting reading for him...

Hebrew New Testament

Remember that the Greeks were pagans and the Jews considered the Greek language an abomination. The Jewish authorities declared that it was worse to learn the Greek language than to eat swine’s flesh! And they forbad the teaching of it. It is also a difficult language. Even the educated Jewish historian of that era, Josephus, wrote in his commentary that the Greek language was so difficult that he never gained much proficiency in it. So why would YHWH choose a pagan, foreign tongue to reveal His New Testament plan, written for only a few of his own people, at best, of whom knew or understood the Greek language, and most of them hated it?

Remember, Yahushua's disciples didn’t have much education. They had been mostly simple fishermen from Galilee before Yahshua called them to be disciples. The priests, Sadducees, Pharisees, and other Yahudi officials considered them “ignorant and uneducated men,” Acts 4:13. The King James Bible says “unlearned and ignorant men.”

So why would YHWH inspire them to write Yahushua's biography and teachings of the greatest life that ever lived, and the greatest event since Creation, in a language that the Jews hated, and that the apostles could not have known? Does not make sense, does it? Well, truth is, HE did not.

www.wcma-usa.org...

This link has some great explanations for why the original New Testament texts were written in Hebrew.

Perfect for this thread ~

I learned today of another change to the KJV from the original writings, the same of which St. Jerome translated for the first Bible, the Latin Vulgate.

God is going to show the world Roman Catholicism is the faith "soon." Each person on the earth personally and if you say NO to His mercy and love in doing this, He will let you go on believing the lie and the lies of the anti-Christ.

I just commented in the what about the contradictions in the Bible thread. The thread is another example of the free will to say NO to God...Your Bible is errant.

Pray for conversions....

Originally posted by colbe

2 Thessalonians 2:11

King James Version (KJV)

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:


2 Thessalonians 2:10

Douay-Rheims (DRBO)
And in all seduction of iniquity to them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying:

+ + +

Oh my gosh, I would become Catholic for the lone reason of the thousands of alterations in the KJV to the original writings! It makes you ill. Look at the difference!

Purchase a Douay-Rheims paperback Bible, we will not have the Internet much longer, says prophecy.

www.drbo.org...

reply to post by Deetermined


Well, the gospels themselves were likely written in Hebrew, by the first Christians who were jewish converts and scribes, since we know they did have scribes and Pharisees who were believers, and probably the book of Acts as well. Paul himself would have been one, but Paul was also a roman citizen and could probably speak Etruscan/Latin. The later books that started being compiled 20 years after Christ's crucifixion would have had gentile/greek convert scribes writing them. There were Grecians/Hellenists at Pentecost too. Speaking in "tongues" would have been in full swing for the Apostles as well, so it is also possible they were able to communicate with the Hellenist's scribes who did understand their own language. Greek itself is not that far removed from Aramaic, as Greek evolved from ancient Aramaic.

reply to post by colbe

God is going to show the world Roman Catholicism is the faith "soon." Each person on the earth personally and if you say NO to His mercy and love in doing this, He will let you go on believing the lie and the lies of the anti-Christ.

I think it is more likely that he will yank the skirt off the whore of Babylon and expose her shame before the world. It has already started. Then we shall see the horror on the faces of the old men who sit on a golden throne between 2 images of Cupid, the son of Venus the "mother goddess" and your "bright morning star".

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by truejew

 

There are no jews or gentiles in Christ, so what you're saying is completely unscriptural.

You are taking the scripture out of context. It is that salvation is for all, Jew or Gentile. Christianity is a Jewish religion with Jewish King and Jewish foundation

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

He's both, because Jesus is Yahweh or perhaps you never read:

I do not see "Jesus is Yahweh" in Proverbs 30:4.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Yeah he was right about that. He came in his Father's name and you don't receive him, but you will receive him if he came in his own name. Ouch, you got lumped in with the Pharisees

.

Jesus came in the Father's name which is Jesus Christ. There is only one God and His name one.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Read Genesis 22 in the Hebrew, or you can look up Strong's H413-H3068 H410 H5945 H7069 H8064 H776 in that order.

There is no "Genesis 22 in Hebrew". You must be speaking of Aramaic. Since Aramaic is a language adopted by the Jews during Babylon, It would be likely to find Baal worshiped as God in the Aramaic text.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Read Psalm 68:4 (IE/Yayh),

Psalm 68:4 Sing to God, sing praises to his name: make a way for him that rides upon the west (the Lord is his name) and exult before him. They shall be troubled before the face of him,

Again, Jah is an addition to the Aramaic Babylonian text. Jah is the Arab moon god.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Exodus 15:2 (IE/Yayh is my salvation = Y'shuweh)

Again, YHWH/LORD is not in the Septuagint, which was used by Jesus.