MSNBC Host: Your Kids Belong to the Collective

reply to post by Bioshock


This is NOT the liberal mindset.

Where do you people come up with this #? Try again.

Oh no. Public education has failed for a vastly different reason. A plethora of reasons actually. The main problem is that everything is run in a capitalist manner. Look at what education is like in many places in Europe. It is democratic. There is no such thing as a private school in some of these countries, simply because that would not be democratic. The rich people would be sent to one place, while the poor are sent to another, just like in the US. And of course the quality of education suffers. And then look at universities. They are FREE. Or basically free, as the fees are negligible.

There are many problems here in America, and they would be easily ended if and only if capitalism were changed for true democracy. Capitalism has been allowed to hinder and even stop democracy in its tracks. So while many Americans think they live in the most democratic country in the world, this is not the case, as we lag behind many European countries significantly. There are many aspects of Communism and Socialism that would be well implemented in the US, and that would fix some of what is broken. But keeping representative government would be key.

However, the government we have now is not a representative government, no matter what anyone says. It just isn't. It represents and cares for the interests of the few, while the majority, or the lower middle class, has no say in anything. They are given the illusion of choice, and that is all. We have so many variations in everything here in America, except politics. There are two parties. How can anyone think that this is enough, especially considering they are on opposite extremes of the spectrum? I find myself agreeing more with the left than the right, although some ideas of the right are good, but neither party is ultimately correct in their views.

But then the left are the ones complaining about the 2nd amendment, and I just have to facepalm myself at the lack of respect for the Constitution. And the republicans are no better, considering they say they stand for the Constitution, while at the same time squashing it at every turn. Especially Bush, who did way worse than Clinton by lying to the US citizenry. How was he not impeached? I mean there are so many things that are wrong with the US that I don't even know where to start. Some of the points I made are from Dr. Richard Wolff, someone who every single person on ATS should be familiar with. He has pinpointed what so many of the others do not talk about, and although he gives the end solutions, I do not think he thinks there is a viable method to achieve these goals without violent revolution. In truth, even if that is not what he thinks, that is the truth.

Too many people are too indoctrinated into the lie of US capitalism and the American Dream, both of which are lies at this point. Another important thing to remember is that the government is not the biggest bad guy in the US. It is the capitalist corporations who control the money and the politics. If we could clean up these atrocities, the government would improve. I think the most viable option for cleaning up the government and initiating change at this point would be to change the election process to include many more candidates, all of who get the same amount of time in front of the people.

That is what some of our tax dollars should be spent on. Candidates should not be allowed to raise money, but should be allocated a set amount to campaign on, and they can use it how they see fit. I would say give us around 10 candidates from different parties with different points of view, and then we might have representative government.

This is exactly the sort of leftist "People's Republic" propaganda I've come to expect from MSNBC. Your kids don't belong to you, they belong to the "community", by which they mean they belong to the state. Under the cover of a "news" channel, MSNBC provides a steady stream of far-left propaganda. They make me sick.

Instead of taking the little money we citizens have left, why not cut the military budget and spend more on education?

Two Cents Worth:

The video is sensationalized and taken out of context, imo.

But to the discussion -

I think that in my family we all belong to each other and with each other - now don't turn that into enslaved ownership - I mean it in the sense of "I belong with you - we are family - we share an unbreakable bond."

Education, The Family & The Village:

One failing of our educational system, is to disconnect children from their sense of "belonging" to their family and to put more emphasis to "belonging" with peers and with the current culture. With two parents working, or a single parent struggling to put in full time work and raise kids - a lot of schooling is "warehousing" to assist families with extended childcare, and to provide at least some education to kids of families that would not otherwise be able to afford education for their kids.

School is supposed to provide "socialization," which is stated as one of the big plusses over homeschooling. What exactly are we "socializing" them to become? True, some people are wretched parents and no child deserves them - but most are not, and are doing the best they can for their kids. Kids, being humans, need to connect - it is hardwired into our brains (barring aberration). What are they connecting to? That is a question I ask myself pretty much daily when it comes to my kids. Materialism? Violence? Blind obedience to authority? External Reward vs. Intrinsic and Internal Rewards? (i.e. gold stars vs. satisfaction of a job well done), That Talent matters more than hard work, resilience and perseverance? Reliance on the underdeveloped pre-frontal cortex of their peer group to help make decisions regarding all the potential Life-Traps out there? (i.e. teen pregnancy, substance abuse, criminal behavior, STDs, credit card abuse, shallow materialism, etc. etc.)

As to the concept of "it takes a village to raise a child" - there are plenty of pro/con arguments to be made.
One "pro" argument is that kids need to see a variety of examples of life-choices to be able to find their own path. A healthy variety of topics, teachers, mentors, including spiritual or religious, is enriching and can open doors for kids that a parent on their own may not be able to do. A good, positive school environment that works to include families, leaves time and space for involvement in family & community outside of school (i.e. 6 1/2 hours a day and then homework on top of it for an 8 year old? Seriously??) - is that a possible goal?

A "con" is that the village may be a violent, destructive or otherwise unsafe environment for anyone's kid to grow up in. A school will reflect the culture it is in. It is possible it might be a haven for some kids, just as it may be hell for others.

The Future & Our Obligations to the Next Generation:

Do we, as a federation (read 'collective' - that doesn't have to equal 'hive mind' Borgs), as a nation and as states, have an obligation to our children and their future? To flip the idea, do we as a nation and as states, have NO obligations to our children, to their future? Is it okay to simply live for our own generation's wants, needs and welfare and to heck with the kids and their future? Do we care if the masses don't have ANY education AT ALL? If they can't read or write or do enough basic math to know how to exchange money? Do we care if all that potential is simply lost? The boy who could have been the scientist who finds a cure for a dreaded disease? The girl who, with educational opportunity, would have grown up to create self-building structures so that we can build bases on other worlds without even having to set foot on them before landing, decompressing into our newly oxygenated environment and heading into the stocked kitchen for a cup of coffee? On Mars?

For me the simple answer is a resounding "Yes! We have an obligation to our nation's children." Legacy matters. The arguing comes in when we discuss what that legacy 'should' be and how we go about providing it, and of course, who should pay for it, and who do we blame when it goes wrong...

peace,
AB

Originally posted by catswithbigpaws
Instead of taking the little money we citizens have left, why not cut the military budget and spend more on education?

Better yet, stop donating millions in aid to Countries we have no business being in and using that money for our Education system, jobs and the mentally ill.

I don't think that is exactly how she meant it, but didn't exactly explain herself in a very good way. I think the idea is that when we all start looking at our kids, ALL of the children as the future members of this society where we all put as much as we can into them and all of our futures then things will be better not only for our kids, but for everyone.

I do not 'own' my child, my child belongs to themselves. I am their parent, their guardian, their teacher, their mentor, their motivator, their security, ect.. but just in that same right there are many other adults whom are not my children's parents who play a big role in their lives as well.

I don't think she meant it in the 'we own your children' sort of way, that idea seems a little bit of a stretch.

Originally posted by Parthin
This is exactly the sort of leftist "People's Republic" propaganda I've come to expect from MSNBC. Your kids don't belong to you, they belong to the "community", by which they mean they belong to the state. Under the cover of a "news" channel, MSNBC provides a steady stream of far-left propaganda. They make me sick.

Did you even watch the video, or did you just read and immediately parrot the painfully idiotic partisan rhetoric in the description?

She, at no point, states that children belong to anyone. She says that children are the RESPONSIBILITY of everyone, and not just their parents.

Children belong to nobody, and it is everyone's responsibility to make sure they are safe, healthy, and well-educated. The future of humanity depends on it.

Now enough with the adolescent reactionism. You people are embarassing yourselves.

Nonsense.

This "It takes a village" line does not work any more. It has no recognisable place in what we now call society. We're not a tribal group any more. We don't live in a communal group. We may think we're a community but we're nothing more than a group of different people forced to live in an area.

What unites us? A flag? A common enemy? If old mrs bates from up the road had a stroke in her house where she lived alone, who would know?

People die in their houses and are found years later, in this society we live in. We're not a village.

Unfortunately, I believe it is how humans need to interact to be, otherwise we fracture into individual tribes of one, where one is all that matter and all that one needs one takes. We need an attachment to our selves. Many young people used to go through rights of passage into adulthood. to prove themselves to their group.

Now they're left out on the street, no mentors, no ties to their own history. Single units.

It takes a village to BE a village.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Where's the link to that site?

I think I've misplaced it.

yeah, African tribal theories are really how we should be advancing civilisation.............if that is the benchmark, let's have a good old fashioned hutu tutsi slaughterfest

Look forward to this woman opening up her large house to homeless children

reply to post by Morgenstern89


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Actually . . . after studying globalism for 45 years . . . I think when the dust settles after Armageddon . . . folks will realize that Infowars etc.
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were FAR TOOOOO WIMPY in their relatively anemic descriptions of the real evils that were running amok in the Nation and planet.
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I believe the literally devilish horrors going on under the table and about to break out overtly on the world stage are many times WORSE than TYPICALLY described on infowars etc.
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I wish I had some significant justification for feeling otherwise. I just don't.

I think the NORMALCY BIAS and the massive decades long propagandized brain washing by the MSM has been EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE . . . even with those who THINK they have a reasonably accurate handle on the realities.

"He, who owns the minds of the children, owns the future." - An old saying, but still very true.

And why shouldn´t the authorities move to create a more believing next generation, while doing their best to keep the present adult ones "on course"?
Being German, I know very well what indoctrination in school can achieve - this without being over 100 and without having gone to nazi-schools.

Just bearing in mind the principles layed down by Edward Bernays, it is easy to see the point for "educational control" for the herd; in childhood and in adulthood. And in connection with the present financial crisis, it only seems logical to shift the costs for this to ... the herd.

Meh, I changed my mind.

My daughter is part of a community, but she does not *belong* to the community or anyone in it. Therefore, no one needs to step in and think they can parent her or tell me how to parent. This is ONE REASON why I stay away from the public school system because they try to push that mentality on you from day one. They try to say that THEY are looking over your child and THEY can have some say in your child's life and what they learn or what they do outside of the house as far as activities goes. Bull.

My daughter is involved in many things in the community with activities and sports, but she is schooled at home and her father and I are raising her, not the government or the public school system.

The reason there is this "collective" mindset is because there are too many parents who don't care about their kids who just dump them off into the public school system as soon as they can because they don't want to parent them or deal with them. I'm sorry if I offend anyone here, but these children in the school system are dumbed down and they are YOUR responsibility. I once worked with a high school graduate who could not do simple math, make change, or use proper English and grammar.

Too many parents are dumping off their children into daycare, then it's preschool, and right on into the public school building. Then they cry about how messed up their children are.

Originally posted by winofiend
Nonsense.

This "It takes a village" line does not work any more. It has no recognisable place in what we now call society. We're not a tribal group any more. We don't live in a communal group. We may think we're a community but we're nothing more than a group of different people forced to live in an area.

What unites us? A flag? A common enemy? If old mrs bates from up the road had a stroke in her house where she lived alone, who would know?

People die in their houses and are found years later, in this society we live in. We're not a village.

Unfortunately, I believe it is how humans need to interact to be, otherwise we fracture into individual tribes of one, where one is all that matter and all that one needs one takes. We need an attachment to our selves. Many young people used to go through rights of passage into adulthood. to prove themselves to their group.

Now they're left out on the street, no mentors, no ties to their own history. Single units.

It takes a village to BE a village.

edit on 8-4-2013 by winofiend because: (no reason given)

I get what you are saying. I think we can BE a village if we are a FREE village as a whole. I have good friends and neighbors I look in after, and our neighbors and people we know out in the world we are close with. Not many people have this anymore, because so many come home, shut the door and want nothing to do with anyone else out there, let alone their neighbor.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
reply to post by Bioshock

 

Wow! what that woman in the vid said is alarming, and whats even more alarming is the number of people in this thread who just dont get it

Some people will go along with whatever their party says simply because they believe they are part of a team. It's not that they believe what they are hearing to be a good thing, they simply hear what they want to hear. But I see where people are coming from in this thread. The problem is, what they're defending is not America. It's a socialist structure designed to destroy every principle this nation was founded on. Some people genuinely want that to happen and see the constitution and bill of rights as out dated and old ideals regardless of the fact that it was those document that lead this nation to such success to begin with.

The fact is, modern liberals are anti-gun control freaks that have an agenda to disarm this nation and control every aspect of our lives. These people wish to dictate everything from what we eat to how we should raise our children. And what do we see in nanny states that are run by these control freaks? Chicago, New York, California... all crime ridden hell holes with strict gun laws. Detroit is the model and as more people start to understand this, we see people moving to states like Texas and Florida to get away from it.

The Democrats are literally out of control and that's not coming from a Republican. I'd consider myself more libertarian if I had to choose a name. People need to understand that this isn't red vs blue. All those titles and teams do is divide our nation. But when you have 95% of the black population voting Democrat, it makes you wonder, what are these people basing their vote on? And is this really the way that our Republic should be electing it's leaders?

Originally posted by Morgenstern89
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I don't "favor" either of them.

The one you favor, though, is intellectually dishonest when reporting, and fully relies on it's audience to use only their base intellect when reading and interpreting their stories. There's something to what they have to say, I'll give you that. But it's about 1000x less severe than they make it out to be.

I'd rather sift through the MSM bull than subject myself to the doom and gloom churned out by Infowars and similar organizations.

At what point is "doom and gloom" acceptable? I'm not even saying that what you said was accurate, I'm simply curious. I don't understand the logic behind refusing to read something because it may make you angry, sad or scared. Are these not normal human emotions? The world isn't all sugar and daises. There are insane people in this world that genuinely hate you and I simply for breathing. There is a reason we lock our doors at night.

Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. At some point all these people that think ignorance is bliss are going to need to come back to reality.

I do not get the fuss around the speech. It has simply taken words out of the context, although every person understand the point behind the words.

That is probably one of the problems in the US society: there is too much I, and not enough we. Too many people can not understand that even they influence society as a whole. Every action we take, every word we say in front of others, might influence the behaviour of others, especially children. Even when home-schooling your kid, you still take him to shop, see different places. I personally try to think in most things I do, how these affect others. It is simple empathy. I do not take many things as invasion of rights, but more of as a responsibility.

It is said that everybody are a mix of their best friends. In a way I agree that close friends, people we admire and our relatives tend to affect our beliefs a lot (even negative ones), whether we want it or not. I have chosen a more active lifestyle as I know it affects my friends and family. Several of my friends have tried to copy it from me and later suggested it to their friends. It is a cycle and at the end most of the community might have taken some of it. If everybody had a six-pack, I doubt any person would be overweight, because it was their choice. If everybody around us was overweight, then we are also more likely to be overweight. If lots of people in the society were jogging, then I doubt many would not go jogging. Although if everybody else decides watching the next episode of some series in TV, I doubt many would decide for jogging instead. Everybody affects everybody they meet in a way and that means having some responsibility.

You are unhappy with the politicians and CEOs, who think only on themselves, yet many do not want to give in the extra cents and accept the schools which would give them better education and the view that they are part of a nation, part of a community. Instead they get the view that everybody is in for themselves. Every policy that is taken, that indirectly would make a nation as whole is seen as invasion of rights or brainwashing by many people.

I see things like this: For example: universal healthcare & strong free education - I earned more, I did not pay an extra cent for others, I did it on my own, although if my kid gets killed in a robbery because somebody "losts", they did not have money for the good education, they did not get a good job for it and due to financial problems tried to rob my kid. If every person in my job is depressed due to having too much problems, thinking whether they can afford their children a college or not, it also affects my feelings and at the end I might get depressed. After all emotions, whether negative or positive, tend to be infections . Overally I believe knowing that certain things are guaranteed, whatever happens, is good for the society as a whole, as it relieves lots of stress on many people.

Even though I don´t have kids, I am happy to give an extra % of my salary to the country to provide stronger education for everybody else´s kids. Every country is as strong as its weaker links and the weaker the lower-class, the more they affect the overall situation of the country and after all the future generations grow the future leaders of the country, so everybody plays a role in a way and I am happy to give my extra cents for the future of the country

Overally I am not only talking about America. America is simply a nation who has lived longer in over-capitalism. Although I see similar trend also happening in other nations, especially the youth, the trend of not caring about others and doing everything for themselves. Overally I believe it is not good for the society and every single being in a community plays a role in the development of it and even raising a kid in it in a way, so overally the message in the video was right

PS. I hope anybody did not feel offended. I may have generalised a bit, although I did not mean everybody, as you can get it, simply the attitude of many.

Originally posted by AboveBoard
Two Cents Worth:


School is supposed to provide "socialization," which is stated as one of the big plusses over homeschooling. What exactly are we "socializing" them to become? True, some people are wretched parents and no child deserves them - but most are not, and are doing the best they can for their kids. Kids, being humans, need to connect - it is hardwired into our brains (barring aberration). What are they connecting to? That is a question I ask myself pretty much daily when it comes to my kids. Materialism? Violence? Blind obedience to authority? External Reward vs. Intrinsic and Internal Rewards? (i.e. gold stars vs. satisfaction of a job well done), That Talent matters more than hard work, resilience and perseverance? Reliance on the underdeveloped pre-frontal cortex of their peer group to help make decisions regarding all the potential Life-Traps out there? (i.e. teen pregnancy, substance abuse, criminal behavior, STDs, credit card abuse, shallow materialism, etc. etc.)

peace,
AB

Great questions. I seems to me that "socialization" is just another word for indoctrination. Independence is celebrated but only if you are unconventional. Ax to grind history and political directions are championed above all else. Traditional histories are ok as long as conditions are attached. Kids are still tought to come under the sway of peer presure, under new auspices. They still teach an offical story these days....the new offical story.