Concerned Officials Warn: “North Korea Could Explode a High-Altitude Nuclear Device Over the Unite

Originally posted by cdesigns
Put all your IMPORTANT electronics in the microwave, and they will be protected from a EMP.
My list is:
1) 2-way radios
2) mini laptop
3) camera
4) medical electronic devices
5) iPhone and iPad

6) etc.

And you're going to charge them where?

Originally posted by salainen

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
So.. this begs the question. if it's in a stable orbit as everyone says.. and it's tumbling, unable to get radio control signals to it, and it's tiny for a bomb - why is the U.S government so keen on tracking it? Seems there is a lot of info we are missing about this venture.

Where did you get the idea that US government is keen on tracking it? Pretty sure NASA would be tracking every satellite, and haven't heard that this one would be getting any extra attention.

From this quote from the op

he concern is so great that U.S. officials who watch North Korea closely are continually monitoring the status of the North Korean “space launch vehicle,” whose status could suggest a pre-emptive nuclear strike against the United States.

Iraq and the fake wepons of mass destruction springs to mind.

I call bs propaganda.

If war starts who will benefit? No one except arms manufacturers, and mega corperations plundering a nations resources.

Earth wake up! We better than war.

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by penninja
Oh sure they do, it's real easy.

What do you suppose we have on board our military shuttle? Pez?

It's just not as doomsday as it's made out to be... the lights go out....I loose you tube... our trains will run, transformers will be fixed etc, etc .... then we have every valid pretext to turn NK to glass

Don't get me wrong... a world of lame... but no one dies unless we act like fools... heat stroke in summer with no ac...whatever, we have no actual shortage of food and water... what else is there that matters in the scheme of things?

If an EMP hit America like they are describing it could take years to undo the damage. I don't think you really understand just how devastating a EMP attack can be.

Most people don't.

People think the US is immune to attack within it's own borders. And they don't realize how many things use electricity.

"It's cool, officials will keep us all calm and tell us to stay indoors."

With what, their mechanically-powered emergency system?

"Everyone will just stay inside and eat dried food and drink coolaid."

Until it runs out within a week or so and we can't restock because there is a lack of mass transportation. Not to mention half of it will go bad because, you know, no refrigeration.

"Everyone will be fine. This doesn't cause health hazards."

No electricity for years, months, or even just weeks means no hospitals and a distinct lack of emergency supplies and medicine. Not to mention seeking out what is left will become incredibly difficult.

"North Korea has no reason to do this."

The Korean War never ended. A temporary cease-fire was declare, and that's it. US citizens may be content to think that the war is over, but NK military officials have NOT forgotten this. They blame the US for quite a lot of their strife, actually. They need as much reason to attack us as religious nutters in the US need to attack gay marriage.

Wake up, people! An attack may actually happen one day. And if it does, you won't have the option of living in candyland anymore.

The thing the scares me most about our enemies in North Korea..... Is that they know us so well

Comfortable... will panic without the slightest amenities

Cowardly.... will turn on one another rather than aid their fellow man

Lacking Conviction.... No longer possess the trait that rose them to power in the first place

Those are the words used in dull chambers when the North Koreans contemplate an attack that by technology, resources, manpower and ability should do nothing ,ore than lead to a rough decade and assure a retaliation that dooms their nation

This sort of attack could not be contemplated by NK..... if not for the fact they know us so well...

Fine I will change my stance too.... if the majority is correct than it must be true

NK will win.... because the lights go out

From the first moment rather than ration we will horde and leave others to starve

The streets will panic fuel trucks will not get through to reactors and poison wil cloud the air

we will turn on each other when in reality the supplies we need exist on either side of our borders and would come rapidly neighbor will shoot neighbor stores will be looted

And for lack of a hospital.... panic should ensue.... despite at age 42 never having had been to one... to go another 2 years would elude me I shall perish without "Hospitals" LOL.... Bones can not be mended the old fashioned way...by touch, midwives can not deliver children..... sweating out a fever would be unbearable....



Meanwhile every North Korean that managed to kill you all.... Lives that way every god damned day, survived, built a weapon and managed to defeat you all eh?

How pathetic

Imagine if they panicked every time there were no lights? If lack of hospitals lead them into negative population growth, if for want of food they killed each other in the street and tore down their infra structure

You are all right.... I am wrong

If we had to live under the conditions they do every day.... we would surely perish half the population would die....despite 100x the natural resources per capita and stockpiles of medicine and good etc....


we would not make it.... as north koreans for even 2 weeks.


sad really

Originally posted by HairlessApe

Originally posted by cdesigns
Put all your IMPORTANT electronics in the microwave, and they will be protected from a EMP.
My list is:
1) 2-way radios
2) mini laptop
3) camera
4) medical electronic devices
5) iPhone and iPad

6) etc.

And you're going to charge them where?

Batteries.

Seriously, you can take batteries, the amount you need, wire them together and charge your device.

After all the batteries are gone? Make more. They are easy to make. Many kids do as a science project.

However, yes, how many people know how to do it out there? (me of course).

The question I have is: why an iPhone/iPad ? You think you're going to use the internet after a massive EMP blast? Going to call up a friend?

Not worried about there being any EMP however. Propaganda is a two way street.

I really hate to rain on yet another great doomsday parade, but what the hey, somebody has to do it.

Let's start with the widely-held opinion that high-altitude EMP is some sort of electronic Armageddon that will plunge the world immediately into the Stone Age. I've lost count of the number of references to the Starfish Prime test, but if you take a deep breath and look at the actual effect of said test, you'll find that Honolulu actually survived (without a single case of cannibalism, no less!)...I understand that a few hardy souls somehow eke out a rather spartan living there to this day. EMP isn't harmless...far from it...but it's not the end of the technological age, either. A temporary disruption of communications, a rash of damaged gear, and lots of blown breakers would be a royal mess, but worse things have happened. It wouldn't be a fun thing, but we wouldn't suddenly wake up in some Mad Max "Thunderdome" world.

Assuming that EMP *was* the absolute destroyer of all things electronic / electrical, North Korea isn't likely to launch such an attack against the US for three very solid reasons.

1) Lack of a nuclear weapon of sufficient power. The oft-referenced Starfish Prime device had a yield of ~1.4Mt. That's a full two orders of magnitude larger than anything North Korea has tested, never mind deployed. Not two times larger, but thousands of times larger. That sort of increased yield requires a leap in technology from fission devices to multi-stage fusion devices. Could North Korea develop such devices? Certainly...after all, several nations already have...but it will take extensive testing, and huge expenditure of resources to do so.

2) Lack of a capable delivery vehicle. Again referencing the Starfish Prime test, the detonation was 250 miles above ground...so in order to launch a similar attack (assuming a large enough device could be built), the North Koreans would need a delivery system that could put the device above the US at about the same altitude as the International Space Station. That's almost as big an advance in missile capability as the advance they'd need in yield, based on the observed flight tests of their missiles. Loading the device into a commercial (or even military) jet isn't good enough...the EMP range decreases with altitude, and below a certain altitude (roughly twice that of the highest commercial air lanes), the most damaging effects of EMP may not occur at all.

3) The brutal practicality reason. A high-altitude EMP attack makes a certain amount of sense as part of a full-out counter-force or counter-value attack...the disruption of the target's radars and communications systems will vastly improve the results of such an attack by degrading any defensive efforts. As a stand-alone attack though, an EMP attack gives you the worst of all possible worlds. By launching such an attack, you've a) wasted one of your small supply of nuclear devices and intercontinental range delivery systems, and b) thrown the first nuclear punch, giving your target every justification they need to hit you with anything and everything they can, while c) doing very little long-term damage to the target...certainly less damage than using the device in a more conventional strike.

In short, the threat of a North Korean EMP attack is about as creditable as something I'd read in World Net Daily...oh, wait.

I find it funny how everyone on here seems to know for a fact that North Korea couldn't pull this off. I can't tell if it's patriotism or just plain arrogance.

Originally posted by aalgg8
I find it funny how everyone on here seems to know for a fact that North Korea couldn't pull this off. I can't tell if it's patriotism or just plain arrogance.

Well, it might be because some of us have actually been keeping an eye on the North Koreans' developments in nuclear and missile technology, and base our opinions on observations of same.

If you're as certain as the tone of your post indicates that they can 'pull this off', what evidence do you have to support that belief?

reply to post by Bluesma


Yep... I edited my response to you noting that I didn't abbreviate 'Miles' properly. Still, a 300 mi altitude is well beyond the orbit of the ISS....

And still most of you doubt the ability of NK just because you think you know what they are capable of or what the have built . What about the idea that they could easily obtain certain mass destruction type weapons from other countries who would highly benefit from the fall of the U.S. ? If history tells us anything it is not to underestimate your opponent , the first korean war and nam are prime examples as well as the more recent iraq war . Some of you even go as far as to imagine that if NK does attack , the U.S. will actually just nuke them off the planet . Really ??? This would not happen for many reasons . I think it would take a MAJOR end game type situation for the U.S. to ever us nuclear weapons against a country like this . More than likely it would be a repeat of the first korean war and that is only if we are not attacked on U.S. soil . Now for that scenario . Can you imagine the panic that would ensue if even just one small nuke was set off in say Seattle or LA ? You would have an instant martial law type of situation and that would just escalate further due to the recent couple years of sketchy gov. abuse of power and rumors of FEMA camps and such . But dont worry , just sleep soundly in your beds and know for a fact that they could not disguise a C130 or commercial jet and fly a nuke into the West Coast or park one of their many subs off either of our coasts and launch a strike which would start a chain reaction event . I for one will keep my eyes open and be ready for what ever comes my way as I am AWAKE !

reply to post by bigjerm


Awake and do what?

Originally posted by aalgg8
I find it funny how everyone on here seems to know for a fact that North Korea couldn't pull this off. I can't tell if it's patriotism or just plain arrogance.

How about 'I worked in the industry for a bit'? Also I see some 'news' you don't. Putting a decent sized nuke into orbit is tough, no one's pulled off a thermonuke on their first go, and NK hasn't gotten more than a fizzle yield nuke yet.

You just don't get a really decent pulse with a 5 to 7 kT runt weapon.

Originally posted by MorkandMindy
nanu

are all US military bases EMP secured?
what about the most important communication Satellite's, are they EMP secured?

scary times.

Mostly, yes. Anything in a SCIF or other TEMPEST enclosure is bulletproof. Most mil equipment is RF susceptibility hardened. Heck, a lot of consumer stuff is these days. What you've got to worry most about are things hooked up to long lines - the power grid is a primary example, a big antenna would be another. Ethernet cables will be bad.

Electronics without external connections are way less susceptible. Stuff that's off even less susceptible - a primary failure mode of EMP is a single event upset that causes power supply regulation failure, the next most likely is SCR latch-up of CMOS logic. If the power's off, those two don't happen.

Originally posted by tkwasny

There will be room to room, house to house, town to town spotty electronics destruction. Some things will happen to be in a location that has adequate shielding, most won't. The E1 pulse travelling at the SOL charges one side of a PN junction while the other is at original voltage level. That severe voltage difference across a PN junction even though lasting less than a nano-second because of the SOL is enough to cause the PN junction to pop like a fuse or fuse like a weld. In electronics that has MILLIONS of PN junctions like a CPU, only a few (or even one) need to be taken out to cause inoperability.

Actually you get about 6 inches of signal travel per nanosecond on an FR4 PCB at the local value of C, not a junction's width.

I don't know where you read that but it's not true. E1 doesn't convey charge - it's a radio wave. It can induce voltage in a trace by using it as an antenna. Whether any particular trace is oriented correctly, long enough, or unshielded enough to couple sufficient voltage to damage a device depends on dozens of factors.

Usually, you don't lose PN junctions. You pop gate oxide. Gates are susceptible to punch-through by voltage with very little current behind it, so they're vulnerable to that sort of thing. However, it's very very rare to find an input without Zener clamping these days. In order to pop that sort of input, you'd have to induce sufficient power in the trace to damage the Zener first - it will react far faster than the gate can blow.

It's not that you can't, especially with radio receivers. You can't clamp the inputs of a receiver very well, the clamping structure adds too much capacitance, so a lot of radio receivers will bite it.

In reading and researching, I've been very concerned about his NK sat cruising around above our heads. I think a EMP attack with this unit is plausible. Here are a few reasons why:
Although it is a small satellite, it still could house the 7-10kt capable device that NK just tested in Feb. Operation Argus back in '58 used a w-25 warhead that was only about 17x24 @ 1.5kt. Nuclear EMP's need higher altitudes. This sat is currently cruising just under 600km. Pretty close to the Argus III test @ 540km. I haven't been able to find an answer for the question of what the impact would be of a 7kt explosion at the altitude this "weather satellite" is flying. It may be too high and have far too little yield to cause widespread damage. According to the sat tracking site, she is due to fly over the central US starting tonight. This would fall inline with NK's attack threats and even the Austin mention. It may be "tumbling" and ground based communication not be consistant, but all it needs is one brief signal to give it the "go" command. Then what happens? NK does a double whammy and uses the sat nuke on the central US and a local EMP attack over in japan/sk to "level the playing field" of the combined US/SK/JP forces in the region.

reply to post by soccerinco

In reading and researching, I've been very concerned about his NK sat cruising around above our heads.

You can keep an eye on it for yourself if it worries you that much:

www.n2yo.com...

reply to post by penninja

The thing the scares me most about our enemies in North Korea..... Is that they know us so well

Comfortable... will panic without the slightest amenities

Cowardly.... will turn on one another rather than aid their fellow man

Lacking Conviction.... No longer possess the trait that rose them to power in the first place

Obviously you were sleeping during and after 911. When the American people were angry, out for blood, and had PLENTY of conviction. I seem to remember a story about a few folks who fought terrorists with their bare hands rather than allowing them to crash into a target. Cowardly? Indeed.....

Now, we have a loud-mouthed, spoiled rich kid with expensive toys whining and threatening us to get his way... It's now cowardliness or lack of conviction, it is taking every ounce of our restraint not to slap this kid silly....

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by penninja

 

The thing the scares me most about our enemies in North Korea..... Is that they know us so well

Comfortable... will panic without the slightest amenities

Cowardly.... will turn on one another rather than aid their fellow man

Lacking Conviction.... No longer possess the trait that rose them to power in the first place

Obviously you were sleeping during and after 911. When the American people were angry, out for blood, and had PLENTY of conviction. I seem to remember a story about a few folks who fought terrorists with their bare hands rather than allowing them to crash into a target. Cowardly? Indeed.....

Now, we have a loud-mouthed, spoiled rich kid with expensive toys whining and threatening us to get his way... It's now cowardliness or lack of conviction, it is taking every ounce of our restraint not to slap this kid silly....

Ah Gazrok.... Thank You

You obviously missed my sarcasm

I have been going back and forth in this thread countering the EM threat and maintaining an argument that Panic and Human behavior would be the only true threat of an EM strike....

That whole post was pure sarcasm... because everyone is pushing the doom button and telling me about meltdowns and reactors only having enough diesel for a week and hospitals.... etc etc...

I was on the Brooklyn Bridge during 9-11, we did wonderfully...

a surprising fact about Nyers is.... lol.... apparently we all carry sufficient narcotics to work to calm down and move in an orderly fashion even if clover-field attacks lol (really was almost comical... old dude next to me opens his cane pulls vials of whisky, lady opens pills, dubbage smoke everywhere lol.... ) Nyers are preppers in their own way lol

But I digress.... This is a STAY CALM scenario....and you'll be okay.

Some of these people scare the heck out of me and honestly for the first time I'm not so upset that DHS is ready to deal with the Yahoos...Things like a Nuclear meltdown are REAL... if you act like animals and the trucks can't get through...

reply to post by penninja


I love what you wrote. It's exactly what my thoughts are on this as well.
Should our enemies combine forces, we will go down. Heck, if they make landfall (hypothetically for the sake of argument) imagine the kid of hell will unleash.

The majority of Americans may be armed. But YOU KNOW there will always be those who have no damn idea to use what they have. There will be immense chaos and anarchy. And I laugh at the logic of even imagining to salvage your electronics. Like a poster above said, where will you charge your beloved energy vampires after an EMP?