The Islamic takeover of Europe/World.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Channel 4 and the NOP polling organisation are clearly biased?

The phrase clutching at straws springs to mind.

I didn't say that the poll was biased, or that Channel 4 was. But the guy who wrote the article you linked to clearly is. Since as you admit you haven't seen the original poll you have no idea what spin he put on it.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

I have searched for the original poll myself. Nonetheless, there is no good reason to assume that CBS news has misrepresented it.

Note that the article is not a news piece by CBS. It is an op-ed reposted from the National Review. Which is quite a different thing.

For instance, "hardcore Islamists" constituting 9% of the British Muslim population is entirely consistent with a British ICM poll that shows

• 1 in 8 British Muslims polled support demonstrators who call for the death of those who insult Islam

More weasel words. "Supporting" a demonstrator is not necessarily the same as being a "hardcore islamist". (And I seriously doubt the original poll said the 9% were hardcore islamists). You might disagree with the demonstrator but still support their right to assemble for example.

I don't think the original NOP poll, Channel 4 or the CBS article was suggesting that the hardcore Islamist and slightly more moderate aggressive defenders of Islam were aggressive all of the time.

Then why did you say they did? You claimed that a large percentage of muslims were "aggressive". You purposely moved away from the designation of "aggressive support for islam" to a more general comment about their behaviour. Why?

The CBS News article also speaks of 3,000 British Muslims having returned home from al Qaeda training camps.

And yet for nine years the race war has stubbornly refused to start. Despite your best efforts

Originally posted by ollncasino

Lets face it. No one can seriously hope to convince anyone these days that Islam isn't a movement that is prone to violence

Whereas Christian countries haven't invaded anywhere recently.

Oh, hang on...

Originally posted by Maarten

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by old_god

 

hat there is some kind of hidden agenda to take over the world is just plain ignorant

Nobody spoke of hidden agendas. And there can't be any...but...it does not change the fact...they (muslim comunity) "produce" more children than the average white EU family. That is not disputable. By sheer numbers...it is unavoidable.


Concerning your comment about black people taking over America....well...I guess non of you founding fathers imagined...that in few hundred years time...you will all bow down to a black president. Go figure...so I guess...they weren't that much off...

I often made the mistake to assume this was common knowledge but my (white) grandparents for example came from family's with around 10 brothers and sisters and this number has gradually lowered with the increase of wealth. I believe the same was true for a lot of European immigrants who traveled to the United States.
It used to be a protective measure as nobody cared for the elderly and they were solely dependant on their remaining familymembers to take care of them so you'd better have plenty of children.

So the most likely scenario is that when Muslims have reached a stable socio economic status and are prospering they too will produce less and less children like we "whites"have.

Sorry just wanted to clarify, so are Muslims now a race of people because the line:

So the most likely scenario is that when Muslims have reached a stable socio economic status and are prospering they too will produce less and less children like we "whites"have

Is that suggesting white people can't be Muslims or are you referring to the majority of white people?

You should come and take a look at some of the estates in the UK, statistics are the other way round mate, we have kids giving birth to kids, a herd of kids with the family on welfare, welcome to England!

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Originally posted by ollncasino

Lets face it. No one can seriously hope to convince anyone these days that Islam isn't a movement that is prone to violence

Whereas Christian countries haven't invaded anywhere recently.

Oh, hang on...

Not in the name of their christian god. Yes for oil maybe, so business matters are another issue.

Originally posted by asen_y2k

Not in the name of their christian god. Yes for oil maybe, so business matters are another issue.

I'm sure you can point to a modern country invading another in the name of Islam?

Sure, there are Islamic terrorists but in the last century there were many more people killed by marxist/leninist groups. The suicide bomb was invented by communists. And there are plenty of nutters holing up in the US with their guns in the name of Christ. Islam doesn't have anything like a monopoly on violence.

reply to post by asen_y2k


Yes, they tried the same in 14th to 17th century period.
What to do when you are in the same military alianse with Osman Ottoman...
With so big influence.
And must work on restore that, and some other Empires, too.
Joke.

On the contrary, if anything, history has shown that muslim people, once exposed to the ways of the West, generally start to trend towards those ways, versus the other way around.

Just in the two years I lived in Saudi, I saw changes taking place, and that was years ago.

Heck, look at this 2004 comment even...

My vision is of a country with a prosperous and diversified economy in which any Saudi citizen, irrespective of gender who is serious about finding employment, can find a job in the field for which he or she is best qualified, leading to a thriving middle class and in which all Saudi citizens, residents or visitors to the country feel safe and can live in an atmosphere where mutual respect and tolerance exist among all, regardless of their social class, religion or gender.

Lubna Olayan, the CEO of Olayan Financing Company (Saudi Arabia)

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Originally posted by asen_y2k

Not in the name of their christian god. Yes for oil maybe, so business matters are another issue.

I'm sure you can point to a modern country invading another in the name of Islam?

Sure, there are Islamic terrorists but in the last century there were many more people killed by marxist/leninist groups. The suicide bomb was invented by communists. And there are plenty of nutters holing up in the US with their guns in the name of Christ. Islam doesn't have anything like a monopoly on violence.

Yes you are right about Marxism killing many in the name of Athiesm, it is a sad part of history.

And no no islamic country has invaded any western ones only due to military superiority of the western world. But migration and then imposing their ways of life is a form of passive invasion. They change local communities in the name of their religion. When the west invades a country they do not in the name of islam, yes they place favorable democratic governments(Muslim countries have long been ruled by dictators) only to get oil contracts etc, just for business, nothing to do with religion of the country being invaded. Do you see US building large amounts of churches in Iraq?

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Here is an news article that discusses the muslim situation in France.

Interesting quote from article. "Given current birth rates, it is not impossible that in 25 years France will have a Muslim majority. The consequences are dynamic: is it possible that secular France might become an Islamic state?"

Another interesting quote "Currently, Islamists are only a fraction of France's Muslim population. In last week's demonstrations against the headscarf law, only 20,000 people turned out. But as in all radical movements, the young are the driving force. As their numbers increase, the militancy of Islam is likely to increase as well."

My opinion is that France has given their state away to the Muslims.

There are similar problems in Sweden. Parts of England are also full o asians.

I feel sorry for Europe because they have opened the doors to invasion by immigration.

edit on 2-4-2013 by Wildbob77 because: spelling

I feel both sorrow and disgust for racists that have plagued the boards of ATS

Originally posted by Gazrok
On the contrary, if anything, history has shown that muslim people, once exposed to the ways of the West, generally start to trend towards those ways, versus the other way around.

Just in the two years I lived in Saudi, I saw changes taking place, and that was years ago.

Heck, look at this 2004 comment even...

My vision is of a country with a prosperous and diversified economy in which any Saudi citizen, irrespective of gender who is serious about finding employment, can find a job in the field for which he or she is best qualified, leading to a thriving middle class and in which all Saudi citizens, residents or visitors to the country feel safe and can live in an atmosphere where mutual respect and tolerance exist among all, regardless of their social class, religion or gender.

Lubna Olayan, the CEO of Olayan Financing Company (Saudi Arabia)

Well what will happen if a western woman tries to drive a car there, or even wears western clothes there? Not possible. Then try protesting there as a foreigner. Protesting so that they change their law. Try making a single church there. Try ordering pork in a restaurants, and protest if u dont get it. You will get deported if not imprisoned.

What happens when muslim migrants in the west want Islamic ways? They sometimes succeed. They succeeded in getting halal, a French poster says the anti headscarf law in France has not been implemented against muslim women, they build many mosques. Why this double standards?

Originally posted by InhaleExhale

Originally posted by Wildbob77
Here is an news article that discusses the muslim situation in France.

Interesting quote from article. "Given current birth rates, it is not impossible that in 25 years France will have a Muslim majority. The consequences are dynamic: is it possible that secular France might become an Islamic state?"

Another interesting quote "Currently, Islamists are only a fraction of France's Muslim population. In last week's demonstrations against the headscarf law, only 20,000 people turned out. But as in all radical movements, the young are the driving force. As their numbers increase, the militancy of Islam is likely to increase as well."

My opinion is that France has given their state away to the Muslims.

There are similar problems in Sweden. Parts of England are also full o asians.

I feel sorry for Europe because they have opened the doors to invasion by immigration.

edit on 2-4-2013 by Wildbob77 because: spelling

I feel both sorrow and disgust for racists that have plagued the boards of ATS

Read my post above, dont you feel sorry for the racists in Saudi Arabia too?

Originally posted by asen_y2k

Originally posted by JuniorDisco

Originally posted by asen_y2k

Not in the name of their christian god. Yes for oil maybe, so business matters are another issue.

I'm sure you can point to a modern country invading another in the name of Islam?

Sure, there are Islamic terrorists but in the last century there were many more people killed by marxist/leninist groups. The suicide bomb was invented by communists. And there are plenty of nutters holing up in the US with their guns in the name of Christ. Islam doesn't have anything like a monopoly on violence.

Yes you are right about Marxism killing many in the name of Athiesm, it is a sad part of history.

And no no islamic country has invaded any western ones only due to military superiority of the western world. But migration and then imposing their ways of life is a form of passive invasion. They change local communities in the name of their religion. When the west invades a country they do not in the name of islam, yes they place favorable democratic governments(Muslim countries have long been ruled by dictators) only to get oil contracts etc, just for business, nothing to do with religion of the country being invaded. Do you see US building large amounts of churches in Iraq?

I see them building quite a lot of synagogues in Palestine!

You're comparing apples with oranges. Naturally if even a few hundred people go to live in a foreign country for any length of time they will often choose to worship somewhere. Are you saying that US expats in Iraq should not be allowed to have churches?

The point is more nuanced than this though. You are generalising about muslims and suggesting they are all often violent because of the actions of a few. A muslim in Iraq would say the same thing about Christians because the few Americans he had met were invaders. Both of you would be wrong.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

Sure they are...even as we speak...they are training suicide Ninja squadrons...to take vengance on the unsuspecting yankees.

/ end sarc

So many seem to be confusing nationality with belief

Why?

Do you do it purposely to try get some worked up or just out of plain ignorance

Originally posted by asen_y2k

Well what will happen if a western woman tries to drive a car there, or even wears western clothes there? Not possible. Then try protesting there as a foreigner. Protesting so that they change their law. Try making a single church there. Try ordering pork in a restaurants, and protest if u dont get it. You will get deported if not imprisoned.

What happens when muslim migrants in the west want Islamic ways? They sometimes succeed. They succeeded in getting halal, a French poster says the anti headscarf law in France has not been implemented against muslim women, they build many mosques. Why this double standards?

edit on 3/4/13 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

The headscarf law in France is implemented. I posted a link that proved this above. And while I disagree with halal killing processes it's not up to me to say that people can't choose what meat they want to eat. Or how they want to worship.

You seem to think that because something bad happens in Saudi Arabia (a particularly intolerant nation, so not indicative of all muslim nations) then it should happen here. That's a distinctly odd conclusion. Or are you saying it shouldn't happen here or there? Shouldn't we pride ourselves on being more tolerant than Saudi Arabia?

The reasons for Saudi Arabia's intolerance are pretty easy to work out. They are a recently developed nation enriched profusely. It's like 15th century UK suddenly fast forwarding to the 21st Century. Do you think women's rights, torture, the rule of the church etc are only a problem in the Middle East? We had that stuff too, in spades. We just had a few hundred years to get through it.

Perhaps you should extend them similar leeway? Or if not, at least try to understand. And not complain that they get to act nasty and you don't.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


Violence by muslimes are not done by just a few. But what is alarming is that most of their violence is in the name of their religion/god. Their beleive in the quran is 100%, religious freedom is rarely allowed, apostasy results in death. I dont have much time to quote the quran, but its filled with violent verses, so is the bible, but we rarely see christians quoting from the bible and being violent. Yes its there but very rare.

reply to post by InhaleExhale


it was in context of getting revenge for their country being destroyed...a poster before me mentioned that as an excuse for extremism. I simply remarked in that context.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


No its the fact that people are calling me racist for my views and holding muslims on a higher pedestal, when in Saudi Arabia, they are committing crimes against human rights. The double standards of the members here.
Yes they can do whatever the want there, i wont go to preach Atheism there. If they dont like the west, why do they migrate in the fist place?

The biggest problem we have here is when it comes to voting in the next Government!

Those Towns and Cities which have become populated with Muslims will not be voting Conservative or UKIP.... they will be voting Labour or even for Independent Parties which are headed by Muslims!!

This is their way to gain more foothold in the Country.

I've seen it with my own eyes.... first its the jobs.... then its the Councils.... after that they try to get into the main Political Parties and if they dont succeed.... they start their own Parties and then they get support from all the other Muslims because this is who they can relate to more than the others.....

So, really it will come down to voting in the next Elections because the ones after that will be another 4 years which means another 4 years of the Islamic growth!!

reply to post by silo13

Facts are Muslims are ‘taking over the Western World’ faster than a snowball traveling downhill in a blizzard. If you do not agree you can take your - how was it you put it? Your ‘indignant, misplaced, xenophobic and often ignorant rhetoric and ideas for anyone that does not share your opinion’ and keep it - because you are wrong.

Facts are more are converting,

More are becoming educating on the subject and choosing to convert.

Its the small minorities that get heard and believed in like your fact.

Some that call themselves Muslims might have this agenda of world domination,

Same goes for any system of belief/knowledge.


Majority of peaceful people just want unity, and as evidence shows Islam is the best cause for unity so this is why for the last 30-40 years Arabs and Islam have been portrayed in Hollywood especially as the Negro was portrayed by the White man for the past few centuries.

reply to post by Fimbulvetr


You're funny. I just pointed out what is happening in Europe. I didn't condemn the process but I do feel sorry for the people of Europe. Much like the US, immigration decisions have been made by a select group of wealthy people who for the most part don't have to interact with the immigrants.

Decisions were made based on some assumptions that have not been realized. The Muslim population in Europe is for the most part not assimilating and does not seem interested in assimilation. There are now Muslim only zones in many countries.

The history of the world can be viewed as a history of the migrations of people. Many times this migrations have been accompanied by violence. I think this will be happening in Europe soon.