The Islamic takeover of Europe/World.

Lately there has been a trend towards Islamisation of Europe, more specifically of Western Europe, a land which holds human rights to the highest levels. We have seen the calls for Sharia Law. The mass immigration from Islamic worlds have not helped either. Muslims immigrants mostly form small communities and then they try to force the majority of the populations into the Islamic way. We have seen mosques cropping up throughout Europe.
The fact that bugs me the most is that, no way in hell can you preach, demand christian ways, open churches in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. Why this double standard.
I am not a christian or a Muslim, but live amongst the international student community in a European country. I will speak from my experience here: Muslim students have a majority. And all the violence among muslims vs non Muslims(foreign students) and Muslims vs local is full of Muslims against all. Within a few years of gaining majority, they introduced Halal food and soon after that gang violence against anyone non Muslim(foreigner and locals), due to minor reasons. Even a murder in the last 5 years where a Muslim guy killed a local Jewish doctor. NO and I mean NO violence has taken place between non Muslims and locals. Muslims always group together regardless of nationality. Why is it that its always the Muslims? Mind you, I am not generalizing. Its first hand experience. Do you share this view or not and why?
I had a very tolerant view towards Islam, but after 5 years living in a Muslim majority community, I can no longer accept the view.
I fear for the future of the world. Islam has not changed over the ~1500 years. Christianity has. I fear the day they gain absolute majority. I wish to discuss this with my fellow ATSers. Do you share this view or not and why?

In the Uk 4.8% of the populace are Muslim a recent poll showed 40% of those want Sharia law so that is about 2.2% want it.
Somehow I can not see 2.2% of the UK making the rest of us accept this law.
Do not get me wrong I hate any idea we have any type of Religion dictate how we live and how our Government comes to decisions.
If that 2.2% want to fight many of us will fight against it. But the same goes for any Religion trying to force it on others.
Oh and I lived in Bradford with my ex wife and we were the only non Muslim people on our street and awoke to call to prayer but my neighbors were lovely. (and they made a mean curry ) Not once was I harassed by any of them and not once did they try to convert me, I even argued with my next door neighbor about religion and he took no offence at all and welcomed my views.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
In the Uk 4.8% of the populace are Muslim a recent poll showed 40% of those want Sharia law so that is about 2.2% want it.
Somehow I can not see 2.2% of the UK making the rest of us accept this law.
Do not get me wrong I hate any idea we have any type of Religion dictate how we live and how our Government comes to decisions.
If that 2.2% want to fight many of us will fight against it.

I am an Atheist, who believes in the law of the land and human rights to the highest level. And I respect it and also have a pacifist view which conflicts with Islam.
I have seen an article that when Islam reaches at around 14-15%, then they start getting what they demand, mainly due to the closely knit community in which they live and their blind support for Islam and fellow Muslims.
Now its 2.2%, but what happens when its 15 or even 20%. Fertility rates amongst Muslims is generally higher than the local population. Maybe you will not see their rise, but your children will definitely see that day.

reply to post by asen_y2k


You're kidding right?

Let's take a look at history.

Did you know that prior to the Gulf War women in Iraq were working as lawyers and doctors? Wearing pencil skirts to work everyday?!

Amazing isn't it?

Did you know that once we destroyed their nations, yeah, us, the West and Europe, that's when the religious extremists took over the political and economic reigns again?

Were they just to stay in their bombed out holes we gave them for free? Raise their children in a perpetual warzone that they had no say over?

As the previous poster pointed out, 4.2% of the population isn't changing jack.

It's amazing to me that Europe would complain about a problem that it created, by supporting and actively participating in imperial take over of nation states it had NO business meddling with.

People who think this way can take their indignant, misplaced, xenophobic and often ignorant rhetoric and ideas and go talk to the 500 thousand dead women and children from the last 2 decades of imperial war.

Let me know what they think of your outrage.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

You're kidding right?

Let's take a look at history.

Did you know that prior to the Gulf War women in Iraq were working as lawyers and doctors? Wearing pencil skirts to work everyday?!

Amazing isn't it?

Did you know that once we destroyed their nations, yeah, us, the West and Europe, that's when the religious extremists took over the political and economic reigns again?

Were they just to stay in their bombed out holes we gave them for free? Raise their children in a perpetual warzone that they had no say over?

As the previous poster pointed out, 4.2% of the population isn't changing jack.

It's amazing to me that Europe would complain about a problem that it created, by supporting and actively participating in imperial take over of nation states it had NO business meddling with.

People who think this way can take their indignant, misplaced, xenophobic and often ignorant rhetoric and ideas and go talk to the 500 thousand dead women and children from the last 2 decades of imperial war.

Let me know what they think of your outrage.

~Tenth

And also, the Baath party followed communistic ideals. That is in Syria and Iraq(before the war) which were ruled by the party. Its the communist ideals which supported the equality of women. Look at Saudi Arabia, Americas greatest ally, women can't even drive a car!
All that I wrote above is from 1st hand experience. I am not European or American or Muslim or Christian, by birth. Even before the American bombs started falling, muslims in Islamic countries had the same plight(not the ones ruled by communist styled parties). And there has been no islamic countries in the last century embracing democracy and human rights except for Turkey(which btw now has a islamic party in power and my experience with Turkish people tells me, that they hate western views and Ataturk).
You are a very tolerant person and I see that, but I would like to see which person in the Saudi Kingdom and Iran would accept you as one of their own in their country, one small mistake and they will shout for your head removed according to their Sharia law.

I don't think we will see many of them trying to do that in N.Ireland we are a very friendly lot when we aren't fighting each other and if push came to shove we wouldn't be long putting them back on a plane and waving goodbye and that's both sides of the community

Though the nice quiet peaceful ones could stay cos we're not all that bad

reply to post by asen_y2k

You are a very tolerant person and I see that, but I would like to see which person in the Saudi Kingdom and Iran would accept you as one of their own in their country, one small mistake and they will shout for your head removed according to their Sharia law.

I've been to both places.

Both were equally welcoming and enjoyable. Although I had philosophical disagreements with some of their tenants and cultural practices, they never ONCE gave me grief for questioning and debating them on these principles.

The media shows you extremists. The vast majority of people who claim to be part of any group, are not.

As for Islam not growing or changing over the last however long, that's partly their own fault, but also the fault of a lot of other places for meddling in their affairs. Do you think Christianity would have changed to the degree it has if there wasn't an ocean separating the Vatican and Washington DC?

I think not.

~Tenth

Here is an news article that discusses the muslim situation in France.

Interesting quote from article. "Given current birth rates, it is not impossible that in 25 years France will have a Muslim majority. The consequences are dynamic: is it possible that secular France might become an Islamic state?"

Another interesting quote "Currently, Islamists are only a fraction of France's Muslim population. In last week's demonstrations against the headscarf law, only 20,000 people turned out. But as in all radical movements, the young are the driving force. As their numbers increase, the militancy of Islam is likely to increase as well."

My opinion is that France has given their state away to the Muslims.

There are similar problems in Sweden. Parts of England are also full o asians.

I feel sorry for Europe because they have opened the doors to invasion by immigration.

A larger historical picture you could look at is the long running struggles between the "muslim" people and "europe". As early as the 5th century b.c. you had Persians pushing into Europe and being pushed back again in a cycle that has basically never stopped.

The last big push was the Ottoman Empire until they were pushed back. What your seeing today, with the increase in muslims in europe is probably just the latest back and forth that has occurred for a very long time.

reply to post by asen_y2k


As a Christian and one who understands exactly what you are talking about, let me point out some basic facts. Christians are not allowed to do things because right now the Earth does not belong to them, it belongs to the race of Adam, and Adam's race is ruled by the devil. So don't be surprised if Christians are much respected of allowed to do much.

The other point is, is that from their youth, the little muslims are taught that everyone is garbage but them. That they are destined to rule the world. The so called 2% radicals in the UK for example, they are die hards and are willing to do what it takes to change the times and the laws to sharia. Islam is going to be ruling the Earth soon. And part of that reason is because people hated Christians and silenced their voice, namely atheistic evolutionary socialistic persons who want no god at all. Without any counterweight to Islam, Islam will rule the day. They are united and obedient to the Mullahs who command them. And to the Quran which commands to kill all the infidels wherever you may find them.

Islam and Christianity was born on same ethics and on same fundamentals but was modified later. Christianity maybe modified for the good of all the people . But Islam was not modified for the good of this globe , it was modified for the destruction of them and all others . imagine if an antivirus turn into a virus , today's Sharia Law Islam is self active and self developing Trojan

reply to post by Hopechest


Only this time they are settled in and staying put lol

Originally posted by Wildbob77

My opinion is that France has given their state away to the Muslims.

There are similar problems in Sweden. Parts of England are also full o asians.

I feel sorry for Europe because they have opened the doors to invasion by immigration.

edit on 2-4-2013 by Wildbob77 because: spelling

Racist? Religiously prejudicial? Invasion by immigration?

So, you support an ideal of removing everyone from the U.S. other than Native Americans, because all the rest of us obviously don't belong here? Or is there a statute of limitations on that because we've now been here for a few hundred years? All I can say after reading that is 'Wow'.

Originally posted by Hopechest
A larger historical picture you could look at is the long running struggles between the "muslim" people and "europe". As early as the 5th century b.c. you had Persians pushing into Europe and being pushed back again in a cycle that has basically never stopped.

The last big push was the Ottoman Empire until they were pushed back. What your seeing today, with the increase in muslims in europe is probably just the latest back and forth that has occurred for a very long time.

First, Persian is a nationality not a religion. Second, from ancient times there has been push both into and out of Europe by both sides. Persia [Asia] invades Europe, taking control over Anatolia [Asia] and the Levant [Asia] from the Greek [European] city-states positioned there and from the Israelites when Nebudchadnezzar II (i think I just mangled his name) busted down Jerusalem and captured a large population of Jews.

But think.. before that you had Egyptians [Africa] pushing into Sumeria/Babylon [Asia] and up into Anatolia [Asia] and conflicts with control of Cyprus [Europe]. The 8th century BCE Phoenicians from the Levant [Asia] controlled vast swaths of land based around Tunisia [Africa] and extending into Spain [Europe].

When did all of this go down? Oh, I know! Well BEFORE Islam was ever established.. because you can't attribute any 'Muslim' activity until after Mohammed appeared circa 570 CE.


I started reading this thread thinking 'Anything good..?' and the only thing I've seen here that doesn't make me want to punch a baby is Tenth's and Boymonkey's comments. End rant.

- Fim

Tenth, you have a star from me, my friend and a mental flag!
And a star for you BM, because you made me laugh after getting fired up reading this thread.

reply to post by Fimbulvetr


Best post in the thread pal. (Well equal to tenths )
Well written and informative
Please don't punch a baby though.
Love BM.

reply to post by asen_y2k


Muslims i know dont want to take over the world, now what ?

Same # different day. Funny how its always the Muslims who are portrayed as aggressors that are causing all the mayhem, yet its countries with a Christian majority who are waging wars. Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq.
Give me break.

reply to post by asen_y2k


I heard my mentor, my SatGuru say this many years ago. I trust what you say to be true and accurate. It is one possible future for humanity if that's what we will be known as if this does escalate. This topic has bothered me for over 25 years and in that time I have witnessed the takeover.

Would you send your white christian? teenage daughter to a predominantly muslim school? In my area you have no choice.

Just a tiny little blip of a piece of info. Muslims at 4.8% can't change anything? Do you think the gay and lesbian population in the US is any larger?

reply to post by asen_y2k


So do you take responsibility for the Million or so killed in Iraq? Or under democracy, is that Justified? You see, democracy may seem like the answer to everyone's problems but along the way, it has caused some major problems for people in the Middle East and the more we allow it, the more they build their hatred towards us. Now democracy call them terrorists.

Originally posted by asen_y2k


I am an Atheist, who believes in the law of the land and human rights to the highest level. And I respect it and also have a pacifist view which conflicts with Islam.

A... pacifist view...? Did you recently take a look at your profile picture?

I am sorry to have such a prejudice, but you sound just like our neo-nazis. Islamophobic, xenophobic and all that crap.

Okay, they are representing about 5% of britains population - what do you want them to do? Move out? Yeaaah, sure. Back in their bombing-craters. Must be a wonderful perspective, I can only imagine those parents telling their children about the perfect live they will life back in their home countries..

And what if they would represent the majority? Don't you realize that there will be major steps BEFORE that time? What if they would reach the 10%? The 20%? I think that there will be some harmonization, remember "melting pot"?


Okay, this went really into the deep and murky waters of "ad hominem", but I just had it with guys (and gals) standing there, polluting the world with xenophobic and near-racial slurs, being proud of their nation while having contributed nothing positive themselves to their nation. I don't know you, and I admit being prone to prejudice in these cases. Maybe you are a completely different guy and just pulled my strings the wrong way, I would appologize if that is the case. If not, if you really are xenophobic - well, get used to not being the person your country really needs. It doesn't work the other way around.

(There is a point when anyone should take a deep breath (myself included) and take a step back - the problem is that Britains economy isn't doing very well - this leads to unemployment, and the usual attack on everyone which still has a job, but "doesn't deserve it", because of being not the right kind of people.
That is just wrong.)