The Islamic takeover of Europe/World.

Originally posted by asen_y2k
Lately there has been a trend towards Islamisation of Europe, more specifically of Western Europe, a land which holds human rights to the highest levels. We have seen the calls for Sharia Law. The mass immigration from Islamic worlds have not helped either. Muslims immigrants mostly form small communities and then they try to force the majority of the populations into the Islamic way. We have seen mosques cropping up throughout Europe.
The fact that bugs me the most is that, no way in hell can you preach, demand christian ways, open churches in Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. Why this double standard.
I am not a christian or a Muslim, but live amongst the international student community in a European country. I will speak from my experience here: Muslim students have a majority. And all the violence among muslims vs non Muslims(foreign students) and Muslims vs local is full of Muslims against all. Within a few years of gaining majority, they introduced Halal food and soon after that gang violence against anyone non Muslim(foreigner and locals), due to minor reasons. Even a murder in the last 5 years where a Muslim guy killed a local Jewish doctor. NO and I mean NO violence has taken place between non Muslims and locals. Muslims always group together regardless of nationality. Why is it that its always the Muslims? Mind you, I am not generalizing. Its first hand experience. Do you share this view or not and why?
I had a very tolerant view towards Islam, but after 5 years living in a Muslim majority community, I can no longer accept the view.
I fear for the future of the world. Islam has not changed over the ~1500 years. Christianity has. I fear the day they gain absolute majority. I wish to discuss this with my fellow ATSers. Do you share this view or not and why?

edit on 2/4/13 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

I have been beated to pulp twice by a group of "Muslims" for no reason other than them wanting to.
However I educate myself and surround myself with lots of cultures as I choose to be a human first and everything else like religion or heritage last.

The "Muslims" you speak of are not representatives of an entire religion or let alone a nation.
And have you met true Muslims you would understand that even though these people might call themselves Muslim they are not considered so by the Muslim community.

If you are aware of it or not, since 911 the media have been trying very hard to demonise the Muslim to give a face to a non-existing enemy called terrorism. This face has become a long bearded arab wearing a dress and shouting Allahu Akhbar.

No..... Middle Eastern people are not holy or without fault in all of this but terrorism and violence comes in all form and shapes all over the planet. You have Jews terrorising the Palestines invading and occupying Palestinian territory for decades now. You have Christian terrorists in Ireland bombing public places.
The USA and the UN itself have invaded several countries with forged evidence of weapons of mass destruction.
For a more local example have you ever been to a Soccer/Football game in Europe and experienced the hooligans? They thrive on violence and chaos and the M.E. is always present during matches because the "white peace loving Christians" would burn and take the stadium down if they had the chance.

Violence and terrorism is not a Muslim trait but our media for the past decade has put a magnifying glass on the Muslim community pointing fingers.

On the long run however this demonising of Muslims actually does create Muslim demons by self fulfilling prophecy, when these Muslim children and their children's children are constantly being demonised for being Muslim and being held accountable for the actions of few madmen that call themselves Muslim you will create anarchists.

In stead of using your emotions to guide you try to use logic and math.
There are close to 2 BILLION Muslims in the world yet you can count the terrorists and the atrocities done to you on two hands.
You can come up with the argument that the Middle East is at war proving how violent Muslims are on a global scale now but it was Christians who invaded the Middle Eastern countries and Christians who helped place corrupt leaders in those countries decades ago.

I would highly advise you to step into any mosque and just tell the people in there of your concerns regarding muslims and ask if they are able to remove the doubts you have concerning Muslims.
They will offer you guidance and an understanding and compassionate heart. They will probably offer you a cup of tea as well.

Do not misunderstand I do not deny there are groups of violent Middle Eastern youths beating random people and causing trouble but these are by definition NOT Muslim and just like any other thugs you see on the streets.

reply to post by asen_y2k


But it is an interesting point you made.

let's explore further....

90,000–166,000 killed in Hiroshima[1] 60,000–80,000 killed in Nagasaki[1] Total: 150,000–246,000+ killed

so around quarter million people...died...in the span of few months. You sum up all islamic countries that suffered at the hands of the US, and you wouldn't come up with those figures. So how come the Japan never issued some..."fatwa" or something against the infidels. They don't even share the same religious views...an extra incentive. Still...are there any Japanese extremists? Making killings, suicides, bomb threats ? Are the Japanese or Chinese demanding separate rights in the countries they emigrate to ? Do they cause fervor, religious intolerance or harass the local population ?

If there are...I have not seen any serious reports on this...

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly

Brilliant...


So you're saying, if by any chance some day...you visit my country...or my city...and If I where to advise to stay out of certain parts of the city for your own benefit...you would have scoffed at that advise and still went there ?

Good luck to you man....

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm not denying that cities have certain areas that can be dangerous (although in my experience the actual threat is usually overstated). What I'm saying is that the notion of immigrant "no go" areas is a fiction whipped up by people for questionable reasons.

Originally posted by Bluesma
No it is not enforced. Look it up. And I explained how the police have ORDERS not to stop them, but you are right, that is not official and I have no proof. Choose to believe what you want.

I certainly shall.

NY Times says you're wrong. 46 stoppages and 27 fines in the first month:

www.nytimes.com...

Know though, that us tax payers pay for these immigrants and their many wives, to have babies, to have free medical care, and even a satelite dish- so they can recieve the channels from their homeland. it is now legal for them to vote, even if they do not want to take french citizenship.... There is more that I could list in way of concessions.

And yet you choose not to?

You realise that this boilerplate you're spouting about them all being on benefit is standard racist nonsense?

My statistic is correct. Look it up.

I did look it up. It's not correct.

Feel free to post a link to a source that backs it up.

You repeat right after this that you didn't say you didn't glimpse them- what is the difference between "glimpse" and "see" for you?

You're just making stuff up now. I didn't use the word "glimpse" or say I didn't "see any immigrants". I said that the idea that the South of France is largely composed of immigrants is nonsense.

If you worked with them, then they are not the young second generation arabs I am talking about (they generally do not have legal jobs).

Several were exactly the "young second generation arabs" you were talking about. And do you really believe that a majority of them don't have legal jobs? Again I'd be amazed if you can find a source for that beyond your own bitterness.

Also, you seem to be conflating second generation arabs with immigrants. You realise that someone born in France and with French citizenship is not an immigrant? are you just throwing them all in together to create your bogus statistics?

So.. they all being Front National supporters was wrong- you meant to say " a minority of people there were Front national supporters" ?
There are actually quite a few political parties here, and the majority are Socialists- which supports my assertion that the majority of French are liberal, open minded, and against racism and predjudice.

I agree, a majority are.

You are arguing the stats I brought to the table based on your guesses? Obviously you haven't seen me around ATS much then- I don't dare leave holes like that in my arguments- that is the best way to ruin your credibility.

The reverse. I haven't seen you provide a source for a single stat you have given.

I know a guy who sends posts from websites concerning Muslims to his British member of parliament, (a woman by the way) she and her office workers got so incensed about the posts, what she called propaganda, that she threatened to send the British police round to his place! That woman is supposed to represent him in parliament!!
That guy says he's voting for some party called ukip in their next elections.( the present MP is in the 'Conservative' party, the party that hates common working people)

reply to post by tothetenthpower

You're kidding right? Let's take a look at history.

Bosnia: Fragile stability threatened by Islamisation.

Bosnia: Fragile stability threatened by Islamisation.

And now the current happening of today in our period.


Christianity under threat in Sarajevo

SARAJEVO: The head of the Serbian Orthodox Church has warned that Christianity was under threat in Sarajevo, as Muslim and Christian clerics argued during talks meant to promote reconciliation. “Christianity is very threatened here,” Patriarch Irinej said in an interview with Bosnian Serb public television during his visit to Sarajevo, adding the Serb population “today does not live in the city”.

Before the war Serb Christians,Croatians Catholics lived side by side with Muslims that has changed after the war not only in Sarajevo but elsewhere in Bosnia. Christians are slowly losing there history and rights soon they will lose there identity. There are more mosques being built then Churches.

In my city of Sarajevo where i lived my elementary school turned into an mosque. This school was designed for all the citizens in Sarajevo. And to think it got turned into Mosque?

What the thread OP is basically is true. In a way.
Saudi/Turkish Islam is taking over through contracts.


Here's an interesting report from last year.

Muslims Converting Empty European Churches into Mosques


Don't take my word for it mod go to Sarajevo and see it for yourself its not the same as it used to be. I dont like it.

reply to post by JuniorDisco


The point is...she is living there and has first hand experience. You are not. You have couple of experiences, and that from just passing through...if I'm not mistaken.

I'm kinda more eager to believe her statistic...and I base this on a certain fact...check out the national football team (soccer) of France...it's overrun with guys of either Arab or African origin. Not that I mind...but it's the fact.

reply to post by tothetenthpower

I’m curious what you wore when visiting these Muslim areas you purport to have visited.

There’s a few options., When travelled to Islamic regions you either acquiesced to their customs and wore the costumes of their culture. From there, they ‘listened’ to your rhetoric because you’re an Western World woman who acquiesced - no reason not to nod their heads and smile.

Or, you wore 'Western World garb' while debating their philosophies to which they nod their collective heads while politely practicing Taqiyya.

There are no in betweens in the Muslim world. The religion of Islam is a way of life with no exceptions.

Then again you might have been visiting Muslim Christians and honestly if that’s the case - how did anything you debate really count? It didn‘t - it‘s called ‘preaching to the choir’.

Facts are Muslims are ‘taking over the Western World’ faster than a snowball traveling downhill in a blizzard. If you do not agree you can take your - how was it you put it? Your ‘indignant, misplaced, xenophobic and often ignorant rhetoric and ideas for anyone that does not share your opinion’ and keep it - because you are wrong.

peace

reply to post by asen_y2k


You have a natural fear and some hatred towards something you don't understand (or choose not to). There was a time when folks used to think Black people were taking over America, go figure.

You need to educate yourself first, there are different demographics in the Muslim community, Shia's (minority) vs Sunni (majority). Then you have different orders, Sufi to the more hardlined Salafi in Sunni circles and the equivalent in Shia circles i.e. those that are spiritual, those that are intellectual and those that are much more materialistic in their practice of the belief.

You are doing what many people do now, mix immigrants, Muslims, Islam, brown skinned people, xenophobia etc into one pot and tarring everyone and everything with it.

If I showed you a man with a beard would you automatically assume he was a Muslim?

It is unfortunate you have a large swathe of immigrants that do not fit into western society due to their cultures and they happen to be mainly Muslims but to then assume that there is some kind of hidden agenda to take over the world is just plain ignorant.

I heard the same rhetoric when it was a crime to a black man, HOW DARE YOU (and anyone else).

How do you deal with Muslims of different colours, can you even recognise them as Muslims or do you simply judge people based on what you see i.e. how they appear to dress and the way they look?

And to the poster above who got beaten up by a group of Muslims...that was unfortunate but are you mixing race with religion (as is everyone on ATS)?

I was violently attacked and left for dead by a large group of white guys back in my youth, does that mean I should state:

"I was attacked by a group of Christians"

Because one of them was a Christian (maybe, I don't know)?

ATS is now the toilet of the internet, and I can see why, this place is not what it used to be but I respect the views of everyone on here, including the OP, we are all different, mostly ignorant by the looks of it, but different.

All of these so called facts are nothing but statistics influenced by the researcher, just like statistics showed Mitt Romney would definitely win and Obama was placed third in the polling statistics.

Statistics are no facts just a tool for someone to portray their opinion with a scienfic tool.

Besides most posters here do not look for independant sources to get a neutral outcome, they look for evidence to support their existing beliefs.

If I want to I can find sources and statistics saying 34% of Asian people are originally made out of vanilla Ice-cream and sprinkles and skittles confirming and enforcing what I already believe.
This doesn't make it true though.

Other then the abuse of statistics I don't really understand why there should be a problem with mosques being build as there already a million of Churches everywhere and the mosques are not replacing the churches so no harm is done. The same goes for Halal foods, it is optional and does not replace the existing foodmenu.

It is like going to macdonalds and being able to get hotwings. You don't have to buy or eat it, it's just an extra.
Besides the halal food often is better tasting then the regular menu.

Oh boy another the Muslims are taking over thread. They are going to out breed us and take over. The question the op should be asking is why do Europeans hate sex?

reply to post by old_god

hat there is some kind of hidden agenda to take over the world is just plain ignorant

Nobody spoke of hidden agendas. And there can't be any...but...it does not change the fact...they (muslim comunity) "produce" more children than the average white EU family. That is not disputable. By sheer numbers...it is unavoidable.


Concerning your comment about black people taking over America....well...I guess non of you founding fathers imagined...that in few hundred years time...you will all bow down to a black president. Go figure...so I guess...they weren't that much off...

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by JuniorDisco

 

The point is...she is living there and has first hand experience. You are not. You have couple of experiences, and that from just passing through...if I'm not mistaken.

But I have experience of people making similar claims about where I live and it's nonsense. That's my point. And since she can't back up any of her 'statistics' and spouts nonsense about crime and benefit fraud I'm inclined to think she's making it up.

I'm kinda more eager to believe her statistic...and I base this on a certain fact...check out the national football team (soccer) of France...it's overrun with guys of either Arab or African origin. Not that I mind...but it's the fact.

So a sample of 11 people is representative of a country.

Gotcha...

reply to post by Maarten

Statistics are no facts just a tool for someone to portray their opinion with a scienfic tool.

agreed. That's why we have posters with personal experiences...including the OP. To me...those are worth more than any plastic "statistic".

Its a sad world now, many are now only starting to see all the people were right before when they said it was a form of taking over, PC idiots claimed it was just a few nut cases making trouble and it was all go ahead on community cohesion.

Now we or those of us with open eyes can see people like me were right all along, the 'Stealth Radicalism' is no longer stealth, its thrust in our very faces at every opportunity. The demands from Radical Islam get bigger and bolder, it threatens people on our streets, there's animosity towards people on the street by Burqua clad women and ignorant bearded men, my wife has been called a kuffar whore so many times its almost 'yeah, whatever'.

Complete area's are turned into Radical no go zones where young mostly Pakistani males spit venom at anyone daring to enter their newly decided caliphate. A poll of young Pakistani origin males now states that they want Sharia Law here, many of these gormless boys don't even understand what it really is about, all they know is what they have been brainwashed about at the Mosque by visiting 'clerics' who sow Saudi based hatred in their minds.

The Mosques mostly funded by Saudi get the visits even if the Imam does not want them, and we have clearly seen a deliberate attempt to Radicalise youth in places of education, Colleges and Uni's having private Muslim only clubs where these discuss their hatred of of the west, where they get speakers from Radical Mosques lecturing them on being the dominant religion.

Even our stupid Government is finally seeing the upsurge in radicalism, we are monitoring British nationals who are fighting in Syria knowing that these same people are now a huge risk because of the training they are getting there and in Pakistan, also Afghanistan.

The benefits system is being bombarded by Radicals told to come here and not to work, told to get as many benefits as they can, Anjem Choudray a UK ex drug taking, drinker who has found Islam and become a radical tells his followers its not Job Seekers Allowance, its Jihad Seekers Allowance, yes, that's what he says.

And while this man and many like him wander around our country and the world raking up radical viewpoints and plots he fails to work and claims benefits for him and his large family despite being a trained solicitor he apparently can find no work but is clearly not sick in any shape or form.

You as a Non Radical try that with the DWP and you will find yourself without benefits...Total Hypocrisy.

So we have Europe under siege from wave after wave of already Radical Muslims moving to countries and demanding every thing, especially special privileges for them which are totally undeserved. They have numerous children always expecting the state to feed them, our benefits system just simply cannot keep going, it will collapse from the very greed.

What is actually more refreshing is that Non Radical ordinary Muslims who were born here or came here to escape these Radicals are actually starting to make themselves more known and vocal, trying to distance themselves from these Radicals.

So in a nutshell, is Radical Islam trying to take over, you betcha..

These people do not want to live alongside us, they want their culture and law here in our countries, they despise us, ignore these so called Moderates who claim its a religion of peace, there's anything BUT peace in the hearts of the Radicals, they are a driven insanity looking to turn the world Radical, they offer us the choice, convert or die.

In the mean time they will continue to ransack places, parade around with graphically disgusting requests to behead us, kill our animals and harass anyone they deem kuffar or not a proper Muslim.

Yes, even other Muslims get affected.

Will we become the next Syria, oh yes indeed, with Sharia intact by numbers of Radicals they will then return to type and start fighting each other. As once said, its easier to destroy than build, look at these countries where Sharia is in power, they are violent vigilante nightmares where Muslim turns on Muslim or are kept under such a vicious extreme regime that the people actually hate it but dare not say a word.

All this coming to you at some point in the future unless there's a crackdown, extremists removed, home made extremists also removed to the place they seem to cherish, the countries human rights out weigh theirs.

Is that too extreme, well its bloody mild compared to what will be in its place.

Yes, even you mighty America who claim it will never happen to you, it is as I've said before, look up Dearborn, its a caliphate on your own soil.

We need the help of the ordinary Muslims who live alongside us peacefully to make it happen, they will be more privvy to what is going on in their mosques than us non muslims, they can help make the country better for us as well as them.

reply to post by JuniorDisco

So a sample of 11 people is representative of a country.

not representative...but...depictive none the less. Compare it with the rest of EU national teams, and you will see what I'm getting at.

Most teams have one or maybe two players that are not "home grown", but imported. France however has more "imported" players than any other nation in Europe. When I say imported...I mean, players that are not originally french but were given french nationality once they moved and settled there.

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


What about my experiences I wrote about? 2nd post in the thread?
Like I said never had a problem I lived in that street for 5 years...not once was I attacked, In fact I was welcomed into that community even though my neighbors knew I do not like any religion.
I was invited to their weddings and various partys and everyone was respectful and kind, never did they try to convert and on a few occasions I talked with the mosque Imam I found out he was honest and open and he hated fundamentalism, he told me why he came to the UK and how he considers himself British due to living here for over 40 years.

The middle east has plenty of problems now. Always has, but now there is plenty of Depleted Uranium to contend with. Islam will never conquer the free world. I expect that in the near future as they bomb and kill more peoples of Europe, they will face severe discrimination and a war of sorts will arise, with nations acting to deport them in mass.

Originally posted by old_god
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

It is unfortunate you have a large swathe of immigrants that do not fit into western society due to their cultures and they happen to be mainly Muslims but to then assume that there is some kind of hidden agenda to take over the world is just plain ignorant.

I am speaking from experience here. I am not a racist, i have many times sat down with local muslims in my community and openly talked about Islamization of Europe. The following is the opinion of each and everyone I have talked to:

Islam is the greatest religion of all and the only true religion, rest are rubbish. It is mentioned in the Quran that Islam will take over Europe and that is what will happen eventually.

This is the opinion of the common muslim folk in my community here. And most of them are Sharia sympathizers. This is what I fear the most.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by old_god

 

hat there is some kind of hidden agenda to take over the world is just plain ignorant

Nobody spoke of hidden agendas. And there can't be any...but...it does not change the fact...they (muslim comunity) "produce" more children than the average white EU family. That is not disputable. By sheer numbers...it is unavoidable.


Concerning your comment about black people taking over America....well...I guess non of you founding fathers imagined...that in few hundred years time...you will all bow down to a black president. Go figure...so I guess...they weren't that much off...

I often made the mistake to assume this was common knowledge but my (white) grandparents for example came from family's with around 10 brothers and sisters and this number has gradually lowered with the increase of wealth. I believe the same was true for a lot of European immigrants who traveled to the United States.
It used to be a protective measure as nobody cared for the elderly and they were solely dependant on their remaining familymembers to take care of them so you'd better have plenty of children.

So the most likely scenario is that when Muslims have reached a stable socio economic status and are prospering they too will produce less and less children like we "whites"have.