Penn and Teller lies about Autism to cover big pharma

reply to post by texasyeti


My response here is for many here who believe vaccines are benevolent, as the ones who are anti-vaccine already are going to agree with me.

First, let us talk about this video. It is has a bunch of editing that was done, which without seeing the raw footage, the context of the Anti-vaccine people was clearly made to make them either look foolish or tin-foil hat. Further, the audience is subjected to by the use of expletives and/or condescending remarks either directed at the person or their viewpoint, to reinforce this concept. A case in point was the Doctor. Penn said words to the effect in voice over, as I don’t know if that was what was actually asked of the doctor, “Are you willing to be responsible for advocating not vaccinating which is just inviting new epidemics that any of us could die from!”. It was then played the Doctor’s answer, which amounted to him saying yes, he would take responsibility.

I would submit that the irony of Penn’s voice over is surprisingly funny as again most of the focus of the video was to show how bat-poo crazy and/or reactionary these people are and yet he is doing the same thing. Also, if most people are vaccinated, how would an epidemic spread? By Penn’s logic only the unvaccinated could be infected. So if he is vaccinated and most other people are as well, how then would an epidemic spread? Clearly, the statement was made to make the Doctor’s viewpoint look, at the very least, as irresponsible.

I also noticed they had only one Anti-Vaccine Doctor and then 3-4 Doctors or Scientist who were Pro-Vaccine. I am not talking about the supposed discredited Doctor who started the “vaccine scare” . If you want to include him, fine, but it would still not negate that the presentation would then support the idea, whether consciously or subconsciously, to the viewer that they could only find one Doctor who thinks vaccines are bad to interview. So in other words, this 26 minutes of Bullsh*t can only be described as a hit piece! If this is supposedly the evidence, you will forgive my unkind nature, but it is woefully lacking in any credible representation of the facts and to use Penn’s vernacular, a f*cking waste of my time!

However, I cannot in good conscious suggest that all of the information that was provided was not valid. An AP article www.salon.com... seems to back Penn and Teller claims that the disparity of numbers from 1970s of 1 in 10,000 to 1 in 110 (now 1 in 50) 40 years later is due to more diagnosis. And before anyone gives me crap about this coming from Salon, the article was written by AP (look at the url). The article also states that CDC officials are using methodologies that are suspect at best while also acknowledging that the diagnosing of the autistic is not really as easy as a blood sample. By which I am led to deduce that it is not an objective test but could be subjective. Logic would dictate that this is a credible reason for the increase in numbers.

But now let us look at real evidence! Evidence that I believe supports the posit that the root cause is the use of elements like mercury (thirmerosal) or aluminum (aluminum phosphate) in vaccines. You will notice that Penn did touch on these ingredients, but here is what he has not presented to you. I do not want to turn this into another dissertation, so I will not list all my sources; however I will try to hit any that are of the more salient points.

First, I believe we need to dispel the misrepresentation that thimerosal is no longer used in vaccines. While there is a great deal of literature that states children’s vaccines do not contain thimerosal , the following is a recent publication that not only reports that some but not all usage of thimerosal by vaccine, manufacture, and percentage: www.vaccinesafety.edu... . In comparison w/this document, in looking at Table 3 from the FDA ‘s website on Vaccine Safety about thimerosal www.fda.gov... , the confusion occurs as it lists more definitive percentages, regardless of manufacturer which also asserts the FDA’s initial and definitive statement: “…Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine (see Table 1).”

Further, evidence is gained by perusing the CDC’s PDF on ingredients used by Vaccine showing the use of thimerosal : www.cdc.gov... which also show a vast use in a number of vaccines using aluminum. -cont'd

reply to post by bhornbuckle75


Priceless! I just clicked your link for the automatic Google search(nice trick by the way!). First link in the search is to VacTruth.org exposing the great harm caused by vaccines. I find it interesting that all vaccine proponents cling to the mercury topic since they view it as being easy to refute. Yes, mercury was removed from most vaccines several years ago. But the problem is not just mercury. The problem is injecting small children with undeveloped immune systems a cocktail of dozens of vaccines that overload their tiny systems and cause a huge immune overreaction. This does not build immunity as proposed, and there are no double blind studies that can prove immunity is improved. What can happen is a huge array of auto-immune symptoms that can cause great and lasting harm to small children.

I have watched dozens of Penn & Teller's attacks on fringe topics over the last year, including their "expose" on the nutjobs in the vaccine truth movement(their words). They claim to have all the truth on their side, but actually present none. Instead they attack and call names and use vulgarity to get their point across. They pretend to present both sides of the aisle so they can attempt to make the opposing side look foolish with their name calling. It equates to an entertaining video, but it sure doesn't prove anything.

If the medical establishment really wanted to end this debate they would commission a sweeping double blind study including both vaccinated and unvaccinated kids to see if autism was more prevalent in either group. I would be willing to have both of my unvaccinated kids participate in this study. They have never received even 1 vaccine in their entire lives. They were also never sick until they began to attend that cesspool of vaccinated children called school. Now they get colds and the flu about as often as any other vaccinated kid. They just do a better job of fighting the infection off in a couple days.

reply to post by texasyeti

It appears that thimerosal has three other names: Thiomersal, Merthiolate, and Nitromersol . That last two it appears to have been banned from use in Over The Counter products, by the FDA, in 1999. You will notice that it is only OTC products, which of course means that if it is a by prescription product that it could still be in used. However, in searching the above document, as of the date of the document, those items were not used as ingredients. I would submit that we do not know whether they were use prior to the dates listed or not but per Wikipedia the were standardly used as a preservative in vaccines.

Next, we have evidence that still in 2003 www.pedsource.com... , in their own words, of Doctors ordering “thimerosal laced vaccine” “…We've made the decision to only order the old-fashioned thimerasol laced vaccine. Even at that, we will be LOSING $$ with some of the managed care plans. I don't feel that we can justify the additional cost of the thimerasol-free vaccine. I guess if some parents insist on it, I'll give them a script and have them buy it at a pharmacy. Michael K. Sachs, M.D. General Pediatrician”.

While I would agree this is only one instance, it is clear that it was still commonly available during that time period and that price not health risk was the overriding factor in the decision and this mentality still continues today. This Reuters article www.reuters.com... presents even more evidence and touches on some key points. That being that mulitdose vials must contain some antifungal/antibacterial vs the single dose variety for safety reasons, that the single dose is much more expensive (2x to 5x) then the multidose, and that the doctors are advocating keeping thimerosal in for the aforementioned reasons. They haven’t taken it out.

As to the number of doctors who seem to think that the Autism-Vaccine link is still an open question? One of them is Dr. Bernadine Healy, who is a highly respected, former US National Institutes of Health Director has stated, “Thimerosal crosses the placenta, and pregnant women are advised to get flu shots, which often contain it. Studies in mice suggest that genetic variation influences brain sensitivity to the toxic effects of mercury. And a primate study designed to mimic vaccination in infants reported in 2005 that thimerosal may clear from the blood in a matter of days but leaves inorganic mercury behind in the brain."

A few informative articles
www.autismspeaks.org...
A comprehensive bio on Dr. Healy: www.healing-arts.org...

Dr. Healy comment about inorganic mercury on the brain I would present is the crux of the argument. The following video was made of by the University of Calgary using an electron microscope, showing time elapsed footage of the effects of mercury on the neurofibrils of neurons. I’m sure that some of you will notice that the video does state other metals like aluminum did not have the same effect. I am not a doctor or a molecular biochemist, but if you search the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on the many aluminum containing ingredients www.sciencelab.com... you will find this phrase: “…High blood concentrations of aluminum may cause aluminum-induced encephalopathy with confusion, lethargy, respiratory depression, cognitive impairment, dysarthria, asterixis, seizure, coma… “ those symptoms could be attributable to being autism. As to the MSDS for thimerosal: www.sciencelab.com... , I find this very interesting, “ CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be toxic to kidneys, liver, spleen, bone marrow, central nervous system (CNS). Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general deterioration of health by an accumulation in one or many human organs. “

So the end result is that given that type of evidence, I think I will not be looking to Penn & Teller or many doctors for advice about whether a vaccine is ok to take.

reply to post by theMediator


from my own point of view (a therapeutic worker with autism) firstly it's over diagnosed - and thats where the "big pharma" conspiracy begins and ends if you ask me... lazy and browbeaten doctors and social workers make poor diagnoses, whether due to pressure from above, or as they know that they can have no effect on the bad parenting, appaling diet and effects of an incresingly "hyperactive" and uncaring society.
there are apparantly links to gut issues and autism (many of my clients have a swathe of food related intolerances and collitis and other similar conditions and allergies) too.
trouble is, many in power think that you can throw stratera, respirodone and ritalin (amongst others) at the problem and then forget about it... also if a troubled kid or teen from an unhelpful background has what appears to be some kind of minor learning difficulty (ie: mum and dad didnt teach them 5h1t and give them no positive attention) and too much energy (read understimulated, too much tv and video games), then just label them as ADHD (anoth condition on the autistic spectrum and no doubt part of the figures in the us) and medicate the poor soul..

changes in society and food would have a major difference (and not just for those diagnosed with an ASD), but no one cares enough or has the requisite power. money and power rule the game and the future of the average kid just doesnt seem to matter enough

Bad idea. Ooh they slipped up...
Because didn't Penn and Teller also lobby for TPTB
there was absolutely nothing to the conspiracy theories regarding 911?
You know that whole group of Military Indusrtrial Complex /
Popular Science magazine/ History Channel cabal?
Bad form. This only solidifies their Shillness .
They are nothing but greedy Trump monkeys.

reply to post by skalla


I would present that your experiences w/these children that you have listed especially the gastrointestinal issues falls in line with the evidence I presented in the MSDS.

reply to post by Dante3214


i will look into the links you posted, ofc the subject is of interest to me.

the reason why the slightly aspy dont have much trouble when they are younger is that they live in a protected bubble, as all children do. it just becomes more challenging when you have to face and interpret the world without the buffers that you have as a child.
obvs by slightly aspy i in no way suggest i have faced the challenges of folk with a "standard case" of aspergers, so to speak (crude terminology but i expect you catch my drift)- i know only to well how debilitating it can be from my own professinal experience.

a gut feeling for me though is that encephalopathy or other conditions (ie: MLDs, attatchment disorder and other often related diagnoses) could be at play here - the diagnosis of autism is a remarkably complex business if one is to be accurate/definate.. in the uk it typically requires a panel of health profs and doctors, a fair amount of time and thousands of pounds - not that most folk realise this.

Originally posted by yourignoranceisbliss
So the other thread was closed, so you could pile all the debunker shills in here and discredit the OP right from the start?

Excellent work Moderators. ATS new motto should be "Keep Calm, Don't Panic".

This site is a joke. If you believe anything these sockpuppets tell you about how safe vaccines are, and are cool with the site administration shutting down opposition of their willfully ignorant opinions, then you deserve to have autistic kids.

the whole shill accusation is beyond lame - you complain that discussion is limited then seek to limit others with such accusations.

and autistic kids are a curse huh? take that prejudiced nonsense somewhere else.. some of the most rewarding experiences (and most fun) i have had in my life was with folk with autism

grow the hell up

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by HIWATT

 

The data did prove otherwise and they did come out and say it... Maybe I am misunderstanding but you linked to the post where I quoted and linked where they did just that - they came out and said it.

You linked to the CDC.

That's like linking to the FDA for evidence that GMO's are a healthy alternative to real food.

The show is called Penn & Teller: BULLSH#T! for a reason....

I probably fall in the autistic range. Maybe aspergers or adhd or ocd or ocpd or something. I wasn't diagnosed growing up, but maybe that's because it was in the 80's and early 90's. I also got good grades. My parents never sent me to a psychiatrist. I did see the counselor once or twice when she told me my problems with other kids was a concern. Anyway, I don't know what caused it. I seemed normal up until 10 years old. That was when I started to fail communicating with others effectively. Started getting teased. Was at its worst point in grade school. Got better in my last two years in HS. But whatever caused me to be so introverted and unable to fit in hasn't went away.

I don't know what I think about the vaccine thing. Personally, I don't default to authority like some do. I have to verify things ot myself first. Some people will just assume that a doctor always knows better. But I am always skeptical and always force myself t look at things online. I know that makes me somewhat stiff, but I think it's just an innate distrust of people who have more power than I do. I don't like institutions. I don't like group-think. I realize that maybe 99/100 times experts will know best what to do, but I can't help it that it's in my nature to question everything. People hate that about me. It makes me life somewhat harder. But I don't want to change.

That's what scares me most about the peace corps or the military or the red cross or similar organizations. They take your will away from you and tell you what to do. Granted, they're probably right. The reason our species has made it this far is because we work as a group. Communities make us stronger. I'd be a fool to not cede my will to another who has more knowledge about something.

I have a hard head. It has probably not helped me much. And so it goes...

Originally posted by jonnywhite
I probably fall in the autistic range. Maybe aspergers or adhd or ocd or ocpd or something. I wasn't diagnosed growing up, but maybe that's because it was in the 80's and early 90's. I also got good grades. My parents never sent me to a psychiatrist. I did see the counselor once or twice when she told me my problems with other kids was a concern. Anyway, I don't know what caused it. I seemed normal up until 10 years old. That was when I started to fail communicating with others effectively. Started getting teased. Was at its worst point in grade school. Got better in my last two years in HS. But whatever caused me to be so introverted and unable to fit in hasn't went away.

I don't know what I think about the vaccine thing. Personally, I don't default to authority like some do. I have to verify things ot myself first. Some people will just assume that a doctor always knows better. But I am always skeptical and always force myself t look at things online. I know that makes me somewhat cocky, but I think it's just an innate distrust of people who have more power than I do.

edit on 24-3-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

You sound pretty freakin' healthy to me!

I hate all those labels you mentioned. ALL of them are marginalizing and minimizing by nature, which by definition implies "something is wrong/broken"

Who decides that? YOU DO, and it sounds like you have figured that out.

cheers.

reply to post by HIWATT

Well I am not endorsing refusing vaccinations for children.

I am endorsing learning more. But that might mean that vaccines are health and fine for children. IF a person cannot change their opinion upon new information then they're not learning.

And the reason I am critical of myself is because I REALLY DO think that experts are right the vast majority of the time. My distrust does work against me most of the time. Now, I could try to change that. There're probably options. But I'm stubborn. Strong opinions. Authority scares me. I don't change easily. I don't want to change. Whether I am right or wrong.

If I am wrong, i don't want to deny that. If I refuse to learn then I'm incompetent. Deep inside, I believe in the power of the individual. But I also doubt that power compared to the power of society. Sometimes an individual CANNOT know better without unreasonable amoutns of time. Perhaps most of the time. And if this is true then am I not shooting myself in the foot? Am I not being a fool?

Originally posted by redtic

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck
Personally, they seem like arrogant cocks to me.

Yeah, funny how that happens when you have the science on your side..

i'm curious....why would DR. OZ, the media darling of all things medical, NOT get his own kids vaccinated....is that some type of tin-foil, looney conspirecy? he says he won't do it in this clip

www.youtube.com...

doesn't he have science on his side?

I don't want to be somebody who declines something that's either good for them or good for their children. But neither do I want to be somebody that defaults to authority. You see my conflict?

We live in a very complex world. I just cannot know it all. It seems inevitable that I'll have to surrender to those who know more than me at some point. But when? Am I so hard headed that I never will? Will I go down like Rambo, except I'll be shooting words, not bullets? A one man country destined to fail. A head that had to get harder and harder to deflect those who would attempt to correct it. Can I figure out a way to reach a middleground? Do I have to go down in flames?

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by HIWATT

 

Well I am not endorsing refusing vaccinations for children.

I am endorsing learning more. But that might mean that vaccines are health and fine for children. IF a person cannot change their opinion upon new information then they're not learning.

And the reason I am critical of myself is because I REALLY DO think that experts are right the vast majority of the time. My distrust does work against me most of the time. Now, I could try to change that. There're probably options. But I'm stubborn. Strong opinions. Authority scares me. I don't change easily. I don't want to change. Whether I am right or wrong.

If I am wrong, i don't want to deny that. If I refuse to learn then I'm incompetent. Deep inside, I believe in the power of the individual. But I also doubt that power compared to the power of society. Sometimes an individual CANNOT know better without unreasonable amoutns of time. Perhaps most of the time. And if this is true then am I not shooting myself in the foot? Am I not being a fool?

edit on 24-3-2013 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

The definition of foolishness is when you absolutely know something is wrong, and you believe it anyway.

"willful ignorance" in other words.

It sounds like you have a healthy dose of skepticism, which I believe to be pretty important in a day and age when TPTB seem to be trying SO HARD to convince us all of so much.

Just keep in mind, if it was really worth buying, they wouldn't have to try so hard to sell it.

BULLSH#T... indeed...

reply to post by HIWATT

For the sake of people who have children, I hope they figure out this vaccine issue. I know that if I had childrne, I'd be deeply afraid of hurting them or messing them up and ruining their chances at life.

For those who're alone, messing up can mean more people become infected by diseases or viral pathogens that spread. Failing to take a Vaccine, especially as a social worker, could be devastating. This is why people who work in busy enviornments around many others are normally required ot take vaccines. So a person with a hard head can really make life tough for others.

But what if Vaccines really are bad somehow? Well, bravo to those who solve the mystery and add a greater wealth of insight to the pool of knowledge our society depends on for its survival.

I think it's really sad that those in here defending the views expressed in Penn & Teller's program are placing so much trust in a government and its agencies that have proven themselves liars enough times that the majority of the world wants to see them wiped off the map. Why do you continue to trust these people who do not care about what happens to you as long as they make their money? You are holding the rest of us back from fixing the world. Kindly stop. S&F for OP because this is important.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by redtic

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck
Personally, they seem like arrogant cocks to me.

Yeah, funny how that happens when you have the science on your side..

i'm curious....why would DR. OZ, the media darling of all things medical, NOT get his own kids vaccinated....is that some type of tin-foil, looney conspirecy? he says he won't do it in this clip

www.youtube.com...

doesn't he have science on his side?

edit on 24-3-2013 by jimmyx because: spell

Oh, christ - if that's the best you got for a reason to not get vaccinated...

First off, it's a hacked up youtube video, with out-of-context clips to sensationalize their so-called message.. strike one..

Second, I'm pretty sure he's talking about the flu vaccine there, not MMR, etc.. not that that matters, though, since that video has no credibility for any sort of proof... strike two

Third.... ah sh!t, what do I care - go ahead, don't get your kids vaccinated.. embrace ignorance!

reply to post by redtic

Did you take a strike at reading my above posts? I am curious how you would like to strike out my evidence for not vaccinating.