Penn and Teller lies about Autism to cover big pharma

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by Bilky
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Humor is a perspective and thats yours. I'm curious since you obviously think vaccines are ok or is it that you dont have evidence to say either would you let your children be vaccinated with the anthrax vaccine. Seeing that its actually good for them?

That's contradictory to you saying "I can see that you have no sense of humor".

You made a joke about Penn and Teller dying by impalement, completely unrelated to the topic. "Joke" is too much credit, you basically said "what if they got impaled". Hilarious.

Anyway, the burden of proof falls upon the side making the accusation, the evidence that they're ok is simply (but not limited to) the lack of evidence that they're not ok. People that blindly argue that vaccines are not ok are just demonstrating their ignorance because they don't have anything credible to support their claim. Unfortunately these people can't understand that since they seem to always lack the ability to think critically and apply logic, so in their view it's my side that are the ignorant ones. Doesn't really matter though, nothing will come of their drivel, medical science will continue to advance.

edit on 24-3-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

Yep I can admit it was contradictory but I am human and not perfect. But you still didn't answer my question about the anthrax vaccine and i repeat again, if as you say vaccines are the best thing since sliced bread then would you allow your children to be given the anthrax vaccine? I dont think you would, but its good enough for other children to be tested upon. I've noticed that you put down a lot of other peoples hard research that they spent hours on and have a real belief in but when it comes to you all you do is paste a flowchart in a thread and say [ See theres the proof]. Who's doing the hard work here and who's just a hard mouth?
;[

Originally posted by Bilky

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by Bilky
reply to post by SpearMint

 

Humor is a perspective and thats yours. I'm curious since you obviously think vaccines are ok or is it that you dont have evidence to say either would you let your children be vaccinated with the anthrax vaccine. Seeing that its actually good for them?

That's contradictory to you saying "I can see that you have no sense of humor".

You made a joke about Penn and Teller dying by impalement, completely unrelated to the topic. "Joke" is too much credit, you basically said "what if they got impaled". Hilarious.

Anyway, the burden of proof falls upon the side making the accusation, the evidence that they're ok is simply (but not limited to) the lack of evidence that they're not ok. People that blindly argue that vaccines are not ok are just demonstrating their ignorance because they don't have anything credible to support their claim. Unfortunately these people can't understand that since they seem to always lack the ability to think critically and apply logic, so in their view it's my side that are the ignorant ones. Doesn't really matter though, nothing will come of their drivel, medical science will continue to advance.

edit on 24-3-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

Yep I can admit it was contradictory but I am human and not perfect. But you still didn't answer my question about the anthrax vaccine and i repeat again, if as you say vaccines are the best thing since sliced bread then would you allow your children to be given the anthrax vaccine? I dont think you would, but its good enough for other children to be tested upon. I've noticed that you put down a lot of other peoples hard research that they spent hours on and have a real belief in but when it comes to you all you do is paste a flowchart in a thread and say [ See theres the proof]. Who's doing the hard work here and who's just a hard mouth?
;[

I didn't say vaccines are the best thing since sliced bread, in fact I haven't expressed my opinion at all. They are great though, they're eradicated multiple diseases along with hygiene and other advances in medical science.

To answer your question, I would if it was necessary. I don't think it is necessary though, so I wouldn't. This is assuming it hasn't been found to cause harm, I don't know a lot about this particular vaccine. I wouldn't allow my kids to be tested upon though, that's another issue. New vaccines could pose a threat (although unlikely), that's why they're tested, this is obvious. What I'm saying is the basic ingredients of a vaccine have not been proven to cause harm.

"Hours of hard research" means nothing if it doesn't result in any credible information, so if none is presented then I will put down their "research", although I think most of the time this research consists of reading threads on conspiracy sites. I don't just post flow charts, but if it's based on and accompanied by a credible report then that's great.

Am I the only one that's confused.com?

Penn n Teller deal with magic yea?

What qualifies them to be talking about 'medicine'...??

If you don't understand a) why vaccines are a very good thing and b) that there is *no* link between vaccines and autism, then you are ignorant and a danger to society, plain and simple. Here's a good article discussing what happens when people don't vaccinate:

boingboing.net...

The Centers for Disease Control released a report this week on the measles outbreaks that have happened in the United States since the beginning of 2011...

...If you have a population with high vaccination rates, you can effectively wall off a rare case or two of the disease. Someone picks it up (often because of a trip overseas) and spreads it to a few other vulnerable people, but the chain of transmission ends within a few weeks or months. In endemic transmission, the chain just keeps going, for years. Without vaccine "walls," you don't have outbreaks during which you must be careful, you have a constant threat that never goes away...

...Eighty-nine percent of all reported cases have been in people who've been unvaccinated. Almost 20 percent of that figure is made up of children who were less than a year old. That means they were too young to have received the first dose of the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, which is given once between the ages of twelve and fifteen months and again when a child is between four and six years old. Another twenty percent of the total number of reported infections were in children between the ages of one and four...

...In other words, choosing to not vaccinate some children affects the health of other children whose families haven't made that choice...

Please, read and learn...

reply to post by HIWATT


The data did prove otherwise and they did come out and say it... Maybe I am misunderstanding but you linked to the post where I quoted and linked where they did just that - they came out and said it.

Originally posted by ObservingYou
Am I the only one that's confused.com?

Penn n Teller deal with magic yea?

What qualifies them to be talking about 'medicine'...??

Yeah, those guys are magicians, and what are magicians good at doing?

They are good at misdirection, deception, slight-of-hand, all tricks used to entertain the audience.

Personally, they seem like [snip] to me. The same goes for James Randy too.

Originally posted by ObservingYou
Am I the only one that's confused.com?

Penn n Teller deal with magic yea?

What qualifies them to be talking about 'medicine'...??

Well I know Penn Jillette has a keen interest in science. Penn and teller are hosts, they can do what they want, they have a research team. It doesn't matter what they're famous for, what qualifies anyone in this thread to state that vaccines are dangerous?

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck
Personally, they seem like arrogant cocks to me.

Yeah, funny how that happens when you have the science on your side..

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck
Yeah, those guys are magicians, and what are magicians good at doing?

They are good at misdirection, deception, slight-of-hand, all tricks used to entertain the audience.

So that makes them very good at picking up on frauds like psychics and those who claim vaccines cause autism. They see through the BS put forward by psychics etc. And some people do not like that as it destroys their fantasy world.

reply to post by texasyeti


Saw the vid ages ago.

THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH.

Jesus, you have no idea just how nasty the diseases they vaccinate for are. Probably because you no longer see them. Measles kills about 1/300 kids. I've crunched the numbers from recent Western outbreaks in totally unvaccinated religious groups in Ireland, America and the Netherlands. It also cause brain damage that mimics autism (measles encephalitis) and deafness. Not to mention about 10% of kids need hospitalization from it. It is NOT a minor illness.

Other diseases like whooping cough also kill (kills 1/200), and the mortality rate for children with diphtheria is somewhere between 1/5 and 1/10. I also checked out stats from modern outbreaks for these.

Other critical info... The rate of autism in pre vaccine era adults is the same as in modern kids. It only seems that autism has increased because the diagnostic criteria changed. I dug up EIGHTEEN different medical studies that support this, and personal experience does too. I'm in my forties, and in the seventies kids with mild autism were just considered backwards or oddballs. Aspergers just didn't exist as a diagnosis, which is why masses of people 40-50 are getting diagnosed with it now.

Also critical.. many cases of autism can be detected at birth. Pre vaccination age. Others can be directly linked to chromosomal disorders. More recent work on babies have shown that those diagnosed later with autism have abnormal brain structure and size at birth.

I keep on top of medical research into autism. I know a lot of people find it hard to grasp this, but hardly any doctors are researching vaccines as a cause. Just those hoping to make a buck suing the companies. Not from drug company pressure, but because a lot of the causes have been discovered and what we are getting is relentlessly 'genetic' and womb environment' as a cause in the research papers.

latest news

I'm sure a few of you will feel the need to post a few links to the handful of genuine cases of vaccine damage. Do you know how they are caused? By exposure to the measles virus. In fact even the Herpes virus can cause similar damage.

Viral encephalitis

All medical treatments have a risk. Some people die from antibiotics, but they save millions every year. So do vaccines.

I spent 13 years in the Navy. During that time I received 6 vaccines for weaponized Anthrax. The first shot was given in 1997 and there were a lot of people very worried about taking the shot, myself included. There was a lot of propaganda leading up to the first shot... pamphlets about how safe the shot was... the Commanding Officer of the ship getting his shot on TV for the crew to see, just to show that he trusted it. Video of the Sec Def getting his shot, just to show that he trusted it and it was safe. You get the idea. The military was threatening very harsh punishment for refusing to take the shot... a lot of people were scared of the shot, but they were even more scared of the repercussions of NOT taking the shot. I was one of those people, scared of getting kicked out of the Navy... scared that would ruin my future, and so I stood in line and took the shot, 6 times in fact.

At the time the CDC and the FDA said that the shot was perfectly safe. I mean why in the world would the government lie to us about the shot being safe? It turns out the shot was never licensed and was deemed unsafe and they stopped given the shot to us. Then they came out with another shot and said "we promise this one is safe". Yeah... right.

Here is an article with linked sources that summarizes the entire thing.

The moral of the story is that I don't trust a word that comes out of the FDA, the CDC, the USDA, or any other agency involved in the "safety" of food and pharmaceutical products, because there is a revolving door between Big Agra and Big Pharma, and the very agencies that are supposed to police them... which creates massive conflicts of interest. Penn and Teller should stick to magic tricks... I've seen their show in Vegas and it wasn't even that good. David Copperfield was MUCH better.

Someone comes out and says that vaccines cause _________, and publish a "report" and everybody jumps on board and takes it as the supreme truth.

but when someone else come out and says that it does not and publishes reports debunking it everybody says their lying.

Why believe one over the other? What makes the first person more reliable and trust worthy?

People believe what they want to and find whatever "evidence" they can to back up their belief. Whether it''s true or not is irrelevant...... as long as it says what they want to hear.

Their minds are made up don't try confusing them with the facts!

reply to post by redtic

So if somebody happens to disagree with vaccinations, they will be labeled a 'danger to society'?

Stay tuned folks. Forced vaccinations coming up next!

the uk based study linking MMR vaccines to autism was discredited long ago, as if many here would care..

more pertinently, i've worked with hundreds of autistic and aspergic teenagers over the last ten years, and for me, diet and genetics seems a major factor, as well as changes in society such as the breakdown in community, lack of clear expectations and life path for many young people.

there were always lots of autistic people around (though it is on the rise imo, for dietary and societal reasons) - just the world used to have a place for them. besides this the world was a less confusing place and they had a lot more support as well as less BS to mess them up.

i could go on, but i doubt the anti vaccine crowd would even process the information

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
I spent 13 years in the Navy. During that time I received 6 vaccines for weaponized Anthrax. The first shot was given in 1997 and there were a lot of people very worried about taking the shot, myself included. There was a lot of propaganda leading up to the first shot... pamphlets about how safe the shot was... the Commanding Officer of the ship getting his shot on TV for the crew to see, just to show that he trusted it. Video of the Sec Def getting his shot, just to show that he trusted it and it was safe. You get the idea. The military was threatening very harsh punishment for refusing to take the shot... a lot of people were scared of the shot, but they were even more scared of the repercussions of NOT taking the shot. I was one of those people, scared of getting kicked out of the Navy... scared that would ruin my future, and so I stood in line and took the shot, 6 times in fact.

At the time the CDC and the FDA said that the shot was perfectly safe. I mean why in the world would the government lie to us about the shot being safe? It turns out the shot was never licensed and was deemed unsafe and they stopped given the shot to us. Then they came out with another shot and said "we promise this one is safe". Yeah... right.

Here is an article with linked sources that summarizes the entire thing.

The moral of the story is that I don't trust a word that comes out of the FDA, the CDC, the USDA, or any other agency involved in the "safety" of food and pharmaceutical products, because there is a revolving door between Big Agra and Big Pharma, and the very agencies that are supposed to police them... which creates massive conflicts of interest. Penn and Teller should stick to magic tricks... I've seen their show in Vegas and it wasn't even that good. David Copperfield was MUCH better.

edit on 24-3-2013 by OptimusSubprime because: (no reason given)

Thank you for the informative and well-sourced article. It probably deserves its own thread.

What I don't understand about ATS is, how and why do you sign up for a conspiracy website if it is so far outside what your opinion of reality is? To argue, or bash people for their beliefs? There is nothing wrong with choosing not to trust our government and it's agencies, and kudos to you if you don't. Many people have been hurt by vaccines before, and that is a trend that hasn't yet gone away.

It's still hard for me to imagine that all vaccines are unsafe, but here's indisputable proof that vaccines have been dangerous in the past.

www.nvic.org...


And on that same note, here's a table that covers side effects of vaccines (vaccine injuries). Notice how serious many of the side effects are. Also note, that many of the short interval 'injuries' can often lead to death (due to what they call sequela).

hrsa.gov...

There you have it, proof. It is plain to see for anyone who is willing to see it. No single person should believe that vaccines are 100% safe, when their own government knows they are not 100% safe.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is probably just misled, or intentionally trying to mislead you.

EDIT: And yes, vaccines have caused autism in the past, click the first link.

"Currently, there are nearly 5,000 pending cases of regressive autism following vaccination that have been filed in the VICP. The cases are being handled in a group referred to as “Omnibus Hearings.” In the past, the program has awarded compensation to children who suffered a brain inflammation/encephalopathy after receiving DPT or DTaP vaccine and suffered permanent brain damage, including autism."

I would say theres a connection.

US Vaccine Court Awards Millions for 2 Autism Diagnosis Cases

The federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, better known as "vaccine court," has just awarded millions of dollars to two children with autism for "pain and suffering" and lifelong care of their injuries, which together could cost tens of millions of dollars

And who the hell listens to that fat blow hard anyway?

www.huffingtonpost.com...

reply to post by TriForce


the article, and the cases are inconclusive however - the only clear element there is encephalopathy which can present symptoms that are very much like autism indeed.
i wish in a way that vaccines were the cause as it would give us a very easy way to reduce the incidences of ASD and make a lot of peoples lives a hell of a lot easier... i just dont see it that way, and when i see lots of autistic clients with parents who clearly display traits of autism (not a criticism, i'm a bit aspy myself), or clients from families with elements of neglect then the picture becomes a lot clearer, especially when you consider the impacyt of many elements of modern society and diet too.
i've also worked with young folk with encephalopathy too, it presents very much like asd.

Penn&teller are a couple of morons they should stick to magic and as Comics no one need to hear there stupid thoughts on things they know nothing about.but I'm sure there cashing in on there phyco babble.

No matter what the officials says, I still suspect vaccines more than anything else for the rise of autism.

I'm not saying it can't be something else but there MUST be a reason for this expanding curve of autism plaguing our younger generations. If they know, they probably won't even tell us.

I find it surprising, here on ATS, how many people actually quote source from the FDA and other terribly corrupted organizations to approve their opinion.

reply to post by skalla


The possibility of autism from vaccines is very real. Click the link on this(www.nvic.org...) page, then click the drop down box that says 'primary reaction'. Then click 'autism spectrum'. There are twenty-seven people alone on the memorial who have developed autism thanks to mass vaccinations, many of which were required by law.

I too am a bit 'aspy', although I'm not officially diagnosed I wonder where that came from since I did not have that problem in my youth... but there's no way to tell. :-(

The real point is that vaccines can cause very serious harm, including but not limited to brain damage (encephalopathy), which is conclusive.


""I don't understand why they fought so hard," Moller said. "We had the evidence: the EEG, the MRI, everything was consistent with encephalopathy, post-vaccination. How can government attorneys claim what our doctors said happened, didn't happen?"

Perhaps the feds were loath to concede yet another vaccine case involving autism. Four cases in the Autism Omnibus Proceedings were recently compensated. Three of those cases are marked with asterisks, indicating the government did not conclude that autism can be caused by vaccines. But the fourth autism case that was paid out in 2013 (Ryan's case? We don't know) has no such caveat."

www.huffingtonpost.com...

(link from Triforce)