Vatican Insider - Pope Francis replaces 'Throne of Peter' with simple chair

reply to post by POXUSA

It really is an ugly 'throne'. If I'd been elected (which is impossible), I probably would have gotten rid of it because of it's negative aesthetics alone. Ugly ugly chair.

I feel for these men who get put into positions of power, only to find that the past deeds of centuries are to be piled onto ones shoulders as "their" fault.

From what I've come to understand, Father Francis is showing the same character he had before coming pope.

Only time will tell if he is able to maintain his stance.

The odds are stacked against him, I think. Power tends to corrupt, because your always forced to make allowances for the more "deserved" in society. Somebody, somewhere out there always thinks their worth a bit more than the backs he stepped on to climb up the social ladder of position and wealth. Somebody, somewhere out there always feels their more entitled, due to some position they hold in the world.

Until this stops. The world will never change. But what do I know? I may follow Christ, but I am no catholic or christian. I'm one of the other people.

Peace,
Cirque

reply to post by tadaman

Thank you. That answers my question.

Your first article is from the 'traditionalist Catholic' thought process .. which is Pope Pius X society folks. Last I saw, they were excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church. They don't like the Novus Ordo, which is the mass that the Roman Catholic Church uses now. I also don't like it, but because Pope Francis uses the Novus Ordo like everyone else doesn't make him a 'liar'. It just makes him a Catholic. (something the Pope Pius X people will disagree with since they think they are the only true catholics left)

As for him baptising babies of single mothers. That's allowed in the church. The child is innocent and as long as the mother (or father) agrees to raise the child Catholic, then there is no reason for that child not to be baptised. The days of ostracising innocent babies from being baptised simply because of a 'sin' of the parents is gone. (thank goodness).

Catechism of the Catholic Church -

IV. WHO CAN RECEIVE BAPTISM?
1246 "Every person not yet baptized and only such a person is able to be baptized."46

he Baptism of infants

1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.50 The sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation is particularly manifest in infant Baptism. The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth.51

1251 Christian parents will recognize that this practice also accords with their role as nurturers of the life that God has entrusted to them.52

1252 The practice of infant Baptism is an immemorial tradition of the Church. There is explicit testimony to this practice from the second century on, and it is quite possible that, from the beginning of the apostolic preaching, when whole "households" received baptism, infants may also have been baptized.

As for Pope Francis calling for legalization of Civil Unions .. yes he did call for that. He did not call for legalizing gay marriage. He said that can never happen as far as the church is concerned. Calling for legalizing Civil Unions was a bold move ... a modern move ... one that would protect marriage (catholic point of view) to keep it 'sacred' and at the same time give gay people legal rights. It was a compromise for sure ....

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by POXUSA

 

It really is an ugly 'throne'. If I'd been elected (which is impossible), I probably would have gotten rid of it because of it's negative aesthetics alone. Ugly ugly chair.

I think you didn't read the post - the "chair" isn't even visible - its HIDDEN - so how can you attribute ugliness to thing you haven't even seen?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
As for Pope Francis calling for legalization of Civil Unions .. yes he did call for that. He did not call for legalizing gay marriage. He said that can never happen as far as the church is concerned. Calling for legalizing Civil Unions was a bold move ... a modern move ... one that would protect marriage (catholic point of view) to keep it 'sacred' and at the same time give gay people legal rights. It was a compromise for sure ....

And please be mindful of the fact that, as a bishop and member of the bishops conference it was only a suggested compromise to a very serious and entangled issue at the time - a suggestion that, as bishop, he did not implement. He was looking for ways to resolve a complex issue without losing any more members of the Church than was necessary.

reply to post by POXUSA

I looked at the picture you posted. It looked ugly to me. I thought I saw it pretty well.
Whatever is in that picture is UGLY.

Originally posted by POXUSA
He was looking for ways to resolve a complex issue without losing any more members of the Church than was necessary.

Sure. He wanted to try to keep marriage as his faith sees it and at the same time, what he was pushing was going to get legal and civil rights for those who wanted gay marriage. It was a pretty big compromise coming from an old fella' in a very old church. I thought it was a good middle road for him ... But I'm sure his detractors won't like it ....

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth


From what I've come to understand, Father Francis is showing the same character he had before coming pope.
Only time will tell if he is able to maintain his stance. Peace, Cirque

I know that he will NEVER be power corrupted. Not only did he demonstrate these high qualities of good character prior to becoming pope he was always this kind of a good person bearing similar qualities to those of St Francis even before he was a priest - all of his life. People such as the likes of pope Francis are not tainted by the world nor are they influenced by power - be it worldly or of the Church. Guaranteed - he will carry on for his entire papacy in the same manner as the day he was elected - eschewing the ermine stole -

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by POXUSA

 

I looked at the picture you posted. It looked ugly to me. I thought I saw it pretty well.
Whatever is in that picture is UGLY.

Well it was designed by none other than Bernini - the greatest sculptor in the world, at that time, or any at other time in history, to be compared only by Michelangelo himself. Bernini also designed the entire altar with is world renowned spiral columns - known as a baldacchino . So your negative opinion on the matter matters very very little. and actually goes for naught.

This is often referred to as Bernini's baldacchino

I choose not to participate in the religious debates going on in this thread. I do want to express that so far, this pope seems to be doing things much dfferent than the last one. I don't know if he will reach as many as Pope John Paul II did, time will tell. This is still the very early days of his pontificate. I feel very hopeful that he may be able to bring some new life to the Church.

There's just something special about how this guy behaves...

Pope Francis telephoned the owner of a kiosk in Buenos Aires just five days after being elected to cancel the delivery of his daily morning newspaper.

The leader of the Catholic church offered his best wishes to the family during a telephone call at around 1.30pm on Monday.

Daniel Del Regno, whose father owns the kiosk, answered the call and heard a voice say "Hi Daniel, it's Cardinal Jorge".

He initially believed it was a friend playing a prank before the former Archbishop of Buenos Aires convinced him the call was genuine.

"I was in shock, I broke down in tears and didn't know what to say," Del Regno told the Argentinean daily La Nación. "He thanked me for delivering the paper all this time and sent best wishes to my family."

Del Regno recalled he had asked Cardinal Bergoglio if he thought he would be elected Pope before he left for Rome.

"He answered me, 'That is too hot to touch. See you in 20 days, keep delivering the paper'. And the rest is, well, history," he told the newspaper.

His father, Luis Del Regno, said they delivered the paper to the former cardinal's residence every day and on Sundays he would visit the kiosk at 5.30am to speak to the family.

"In June he baptised my grandson, it was an amazing feeling," Del Regno said. "I know what he's like. He's one of a kind." (Source)

How easy would it be to forget about something as mundane as the newspaper guy? Or, if he did remember, to ask someone at the Vatican or back in Argentina to cancel the paper? Instead, he picks up the phone and does it himself.

Nice.

Originally posted by POXUSA
Well it was designed by none other than Bernini - the greatest sculptor in the world,

I don't care if some think he's 'the greatest sculptor in the world.
Whatever it is .. it's ugly.

So your negative opinion on the matter matters very very little. and actually goes for naught.

This is a discussion forum. We can express our opinions.
My opinion is just as valid as anyone elses. My opinion .. that 'masterpiece' is ugly.

Originally posted by adjensen
How easy would it be to forget about something as mundane as the newspaper guy? Or, if he did remember, to ask someone at the Vatican or back in Argentina to cancel the paper? Instead, he picks up the phone and does it himself. Nice.

Catholic news sources reported that, after being elected pope, he went to a hotel in town to 'settle his debt'. He made sure he paid the hotel bill. (the hotel he stayed in prior to moving into the conclave residence).

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by tadaman

 

Thank you. That answers my question.

Your first article is from the 'traditionalist Catholic' thought process .. which is Pope Pius X society folks. Last I saw, they were excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church.

You Are Wrong As Rain as regards the Society of St Pius X as having been excommunicated - you are also wrong on all other counts in your post - please educate yourself before posting in such an ill informed manner. The last thing new and younger viewers here @ ATS need is bad information.....OK? Thank you for listening to one who is somewhat more informed than you in these important matters of religion. And probably much older as well

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by adjensen
How easy would it be to forget about something as mundane as the newspaper guy? Or, if he did remember, to ask someone at the Vatican or back in Argentina to cancel the paper? Instead, he picks up the phone and does it himself. Nice.

Catholic news sources reported that, after being elected pope, he went to a hotel in town to 'settle his debt'. He made sure he paid the hotel bill. (the hotel he stayed in prior to moving into the conclave residence).

Yes, and just as importantly he did it himself - personally, and, quite noticeably, he did not avail himself of the papal entourage replete with limousines etc., preferring instead to ride in an ordinary car - I'm surprised he didn't drive it himself. He's humble - period.

I find it quite refreshing about what he is doing as Pontiff. It seems this man is doing these small things, but significant things to show solidarity with the poor and downtrodden? I have looked into the man's background, and from by the looks of it? He does live by example, and not doing these things for face-value's sake. Before becoming Pope he was a bishop and a cardinal.

Those positions carry a lot of weight in terms of influence, wealth, and luxury. Yet, he made a concerted effort to live as frugal and simplistic as possible. Apparently, he is carrying over the same practices as head of the Roman Catholic Church? It is truly quite admirable. Although, I am well aware of the temptations and frailties of man as well. We read and hear about it everday with all of the scandals, and religious leaders living like rockstars instead performing their duties as humble servants of Jesus Christ. As of now, it is too soon to make any reasonble judgement or assessment of the man and his true intentions. Therefore, lets refrain from the scathing and venomous indictments. Give him time! Rome was not built in a day!

Originally posted by Jakes51
I find it quite refreshing about what he is doing as Pontiff. It seems this man is doing these small things, but significant things to show solidarity with the poor and downtrodden? I have looked into the man's background, and from by the looks of it? He does live by example, and not doing these things for face-value's sake. Before becoming Pope he was a bishop and a cardinal.

Those positions carry a lot of weight in terms of influence, wealth, and luxury. Yet, he made a concerted effort to live as frugal and simplistic as possible. Apparently, he is carrying over the same practices as head of the Roman Catholic Church? It is truly quite admirable. Although, I am well aware of the temptations and frailties of man as well. We read and hear about it everday with all of the scandals, and religious leaders living like rockstars instead performing their duties as humble servants of Jesus Christ. As of now, it is too soon to make any reasonble judgement or assessment of the man and his true intentions. Therefore, lets refrain from the scathing and venomous indictments. Give him time! Rome was not built in a day!

edit on 22-3-2013 by Jakes51 because: (no reason given)

Incidentally - he sold the Bishop's palace when he was head of the Church in Buenos Aires. Gave the proceeds to the poor. He then rented an efficiency apartment in town to live amongst the people and to be able to visit - IN PERSON - the barrios and poor districts near the dumps so as to minister to the children and the poor..

reply to post by POXUSA


We will see if the characteristics hold-up, but right now I am liking what I see! He seems like a humble and forthright man, and that is very admirable these days. Especially, when it seems everyone is so consumed with themselves, and show little to no regard for others. Lets just wait and see. Thanks for the reply!

Pope calls Argentine kiosk owner to cancel paper delivery
www.catholicnewsagency.com...

The Pope shocked his paper vendor with a call from Rome cancelling his daily paper delivery. The vendor at first thought he was being pranked. It is a touching article that shows what flavor of a pope we now have. St. Francis of Assisi would be proud.

Among the “thousands of anecdotes” the elder Del Regno remembers is one involving the rubber bands that he put around the newspapers to keep them from being blown away when they were delivered to the cardinal. “At the end of the month, he always brought them back to me. All 30 of them!”

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
Top 10 Misconceptions About The Catholic Church
listverse.com...

Thank you so much for posting this link. I bookmarked it As a Catholic, Ive heard a lot of that all my life. It will be a lot easier to pass on the link for them to educate themselves.

As for the Pope, I am so glad he was chosen. Such a humble man. We needed him. The changes he is making are simple but make a huge point. They send a message of reassurance and hope. I think he represents most Catholics, where as the previous pope did not. He's like, a reset button in a way LOL. Back to the basics, time to clean house.

In one of the articles I read, the author said "I think we finaly have a Pope fit to wear the Fishermans ring" it gave me goosebumps. I couldnt agree more.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
In one of the articles I read, the author said "I think we finaly have a Pope fit to wear the Fishermans ring" it gave me goosebumps. I couldnt agree more.

As for the Black Shoes of the Fisherman you wil not see pope Francis dressed in the traditional papal footwear so beloved by the previous pope.

Compare


Speaking personally and not against pope Benedict, I thought he was the worst possible choice at the time of his election, and I see that pope Francis is the exact opposite of that - far and away the best possible choice.

I was present at the election of pope Benedict and was heartsick they decided to go against the will of the people, which was for reform in the Church. They thought better of it this time around much to their credit.

And much to the credit of cardinal Ratzinger - he stepped aside for the good of the Church and he surely had a strong influence in the election of pope Francis. For me, stepping aside as he did was the only real stand-out action that he performed in his entire papacy - sorry to have to say that but I am not alone in my assessment.