Vatican Insider - Pope Francis replaces 'Throne of Peter' with simple chair

I dunno if he is the anti-Christ, just one more average humanoid politicker sitting on the world stage - or a genuine, down to earth guy (that just happened to get voted Pope) - it's brilliant

Il Papa can have whatever he wants I bet - I'm surprised he didn't go for the La-Z-Boy E-cliner 3000, the chair that Sit Magazine called the Chair of the Year

:-)

Will be so interesting to watch all this as it happens - and some heads get butted

Just when you think things are too predictable, the story takes a turn...

reply to post by tadaman and others

A few thoughts.

Do it now. Start ordering reforms. He's known that he was the next Pope for what, a week? In the U.S. candidates for President spend all campaign year putting together their teams of advisors, priorities and positions. Then they have November through January to prepare for the inauguration. Two weeks ago Francis was sure he would not be Pope. Further, he has just received a 300 page report, commissioned by Benedict XVI, on problems in the Church. Cut him a little slack, no one in his shoes (not the red slippers) could have done what some were expecting.

All Catholicism is evil.

His kind desecrated countless thousands of churches and made Christ take a back seat to the worship of men instead of the worship of God.

His kind? What, in all of creation, can this possibly mean? Men over 70? Argentinians? Humble people who care for the poor, imprisoned and sick? Oh, I get it, Catholics, they're the problem. You disagree with Catholicism, and that allows you to condemn Catholics. Please, be careful. That kind of logic could easily snatch you up as well.

But this is about Francis, not a discussion of the Church's theology. Of course, some don't understand the Church's theology at all. As an example, some say

the salvation of souls and everything we have had built up to now has to take a back seat to Marian worship

when the Church is quite clear that only God is to be worshipped. Perhaps it's the lack of understanding about what the Church teaches tht leads to hatred.

He's a bad person. Good, finally something that deals with Pope Francis. The charges are made that he is a liar (a charge without evidence), he is more concerned with face than faith (all evidence points to the opposite), and that he will capitulate to power (he confronted and resisted power when he was in Argentina). I wouldn't like to try to defend those charges in a serious debate.

But... In time he may reveal hitherto unknown flaws which make him unsuitable for his position. It hasn't happened yet, he has given us no reason to condemn him, but it might happen. So, until then, why not welcome him and pray for him?

More Papal upsetting of the apple cart...

Pope to Celebrate Holy Thursday Mass at Youth Prison

by CNA/EWTN NEWS 03/21/2013 Comment

VATICAN CITY — Pope Francis will celebrate the Mass of the Lord’s Supper at a youth detention center rather than the traditional Basilica of St. John Lateran, the Vatican says.

On March 28, Holy Thursday, Pope Francis will celebrate the Chrism Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica in the morning, but then go to the Casal del Marmo youth detention center rather than the Basilica of St. John Lateran.

This tradition is one that new Pope has practiced since his days as Archbishop of Buenos Aires.
During that time, then-Cardinal Bergoglio would celebrate Holy Thursday Mass in a hospital, prison or shelter for the poor. (Source)

Like the Roman Catholic Church or not, it's tough to say that Pope Francis is not making an effort to change the public face of his office.

Originally posted by woodwytch
Surely the Head Of The Catholic Church in the shape of the new Pope should be focusing on cleaning-up the depravities of the church he leads (of which there are many) ... instead of wasting time on his 'simple' clothes and furniture.

How do you know he isn't doing that? I'm sure he's capable of doing many things at the same time. And he's only been in office a few days. Give him some time to implement changes.

Originally posted by tadaman
he is a revisionist, modernist, humanist liar. He is more concerned with face than faith.

... and you know all of that .. how exactly? What has he lied about?
What has he done that shows he is more concerned with 'face' than faith??
Give us some examples if you don't mind.

This guy has been in office just a few short days. He didn't have 'prep' time ahead of time. He was just handed the job. Considering everything, I'd say he's digging in and getting started with cleaning up.

I think it's sad that, when this fella makes changes so as to give a good example, people automatically jump to the conclusion that he's a 'liar'. If he hadn't have made the changes he's made, then those same people would be saying that hes' the 'same ol' same ol'.

No matter what he does, some folks are just going to find fault with it.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Flyers, if I hadn't already seen that you are well informed on the subject I would do this whole song and dance. I know that you are very well informed on church politics and the history since Vatican 2. I am honestly not even a Catholic anymore. I wont deny that. I had hopes with Benedict for a restoration and possibly communing again with my ancestral faith. That is gone with the appointment of the same school of thought that brought us the ruin of Vatican 2.

I responded as I did to avoid the several talking points long response to my talking points. I am on my phone and even if I wasn't I don't feel it is my place anymore. I am not a Catholic anymore. I WAS very devout and I have seen first hand the caliber of men the novus ordo /modernist priest is. There are no exceptions. I was raised with real priests as teachers that were as true as the sun rises and sets on time.

The modernist / new age priests are rabid dogs when you oppose them with an argument of tradition and church law. They forget the fact that they too as sinners and shovel the "ends justify the means" for their self righteous ideas of who or what the church should be. Who I should be according to THEIR interpretation of a thousands year old faith.

You know the history. I don't need to spoon feed you on the ruin of the church at the hands of new age humanists which pass along the social programming from the UN and the age old globalists.

You asked how do I know? Because that is their mission. Change the church to what THEY want it to be as if that was the intended end all along. That is a lie. They know they are taking it upon themselves and with their own authority granted by them to play surgeon on my sacred and holy. The church our ancestors died defending. The church our sacrifices as a people built.


Who are they but 1 generation of men to erase everything our ancestors built?

Who are they to tell me what a Catholic should be?

They are but men.

reply to post by tadaman

You're right, there are Modernist priests, but not all of them. Modernism has been declared a heresy, and was even before Vatican II. You're right to want to stay away from them, but not to stay away from the Church, for the Church itself isn't modernist.

I'm not even sure if Vatican II was the problem. I tend to think it was the interpretation of the documents that was flawed.

Like a good doctor, you've diagnosed a disease, but like a good doctor, don't abandon the patient.

I liked him from the moment I heard he chose to live in an apartment instead of the Bishop's house. He used public transportation and does his own dishes. He will be loved because he goes to prison and washes and kisses the feet of criminals and does not climb on the pedestal he was offered. Anyone thinking that this is an act or deception needs to understand that he lives something that Christians should be striving for, if they are not already there - that is, the love of poverty. God bless this pope who lives in imitation of Christ.

As for the ATS superhumancrew who think they know more about Catholics than Catholics do:

Top 10 Misconceptions About The Catholic Church
listverse.com...

As the author says there are millions of misconceptions about Catholicism. Perhaps people should pick up and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church before they spread stories about us worshipping the Pope or Mary.

Thanks OP. It's nice to hear he's staying true to himself. I figured he would.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by MamaJ
He sounds like the perfect deception to me.

The guy is 76 years old .. has one lung .. has lived all his life in simplicity which is directly opposite of what life in the Vatican is like. When he lives simply and moves the church in that direction ... well ... for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I am looking forward to seeing where he goes with his changes.

He's only been in a few days and so much has changed.
I'm wondering what the next few months will bring.

So far .. I like him.

]]
can you clarify what his having one lung has to do with anything?

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
I liked him from the moment I heard he chose to live in an apartment instead of the Bishop's house. He used public transportation and does his own dishes. He will be loved because he goes to prison and washes and kisses the feet of criminals and does not climb on the pedestal he was offered. Anyone thinking that this is an act or deception needs to understand that he lives something that Christians should be striving for, if they are not already there - that is, the love of poverty. God bless this pope who lives in imitation of Christ.

As for the ATS superhumancrew who think they know more about Catholics than Catholics do:

Top 10 Misconceptions About The Catholic Church
listverse.com...

As the author says there are millions of misconceptions about Catholicism. Perhaps people should pick up and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church before they spread stories about us worshipping the Pope or Mary.

Thanks OP. It's nice to hear he's staying true to himself. I figured he would.

just to be clear, love of poverty, Christians are meant to "LOVE" poverty

reply to post by Credenceskynyrd

I must not be understanding you.

just to be clear, love of poverty, Christians are meant to "LOVE" poverty

That's not what I've heard or believe. Poverty that crushes is a terrible thing and the Church fights against it, and has for centuries. Now "Love of Money?" That's not looked on favorably at all.

The Church supports workers. Remember Solidarity and the Gdansk shipyards? Even Francis, when he was Archbishop fought with the government over the treatment of the poor.

We can accept and live with poverty and simplicity, but we also have to fulfill our obligations to ourselves, families and God. If we happen to be in a position with wealth, we should see that as an opportunity to give glory to God and support our brothers and sisters. How we do that is a matter of individual conscience. No Christian is required to be poor. (Unless, of course, they have taken a vow of poverty or God calls them to it.)

reply to post by SubAce


How about we go back to the real roots of Christianity and everyone becomes Jewish? Come on, the christian faith has been a botched job since Jesus himself (if he even existed). Bring back the polytheistic! Free yourself from the crapsicle of propaganda wars between spiritually devoid mannequins.

I feel like he's trying too hard to portray himself as this 'humble' man. I don't like it. PLus, I get a very eerie vibe from him... mainly in the eyes-upper nose area. He has a vacant stare.

reply to post by Q2IN2Y

You might be right about his humility being fake, but that was how he lived in Argentina when he was Bishop there. Instead of living in the official residence, he lived in an apartment and cooked his own meals. He would ride a bicycle or the bus to work, and was known as the Bishop of the Slums.

As far as eyes? I don't see how it matters much, but considering this Pope business was a complete surprise to him (and all the other Vatican watchers) I don't mind a little "deer in the headlights" look now and again.

Proof the old people do crazy things.

reply to post by tadaman


What exactly do you have against the jesuits?

Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by Credenceskynyrd

 

I must not be understanding you.

just to be clear, love of poverty, Christians are meant to "LOVE" poverty

That's not what I've heard or believe. Poverty that crushes is a terrible thing and the Church fights against it, and has for centuries. Now "Love of Money?" That's not looked on favorably at all.

The Church supports workers. Remember Solidarity and the Gdansk shipyards? Even Francis, when he was Archbishop fought with the government over the treatment of the poor.

We can accept and live with poverty and simplicity, but we also have to fulfill our obligations to ourselves, families and God. If we happen to be in a position with wealth, we should see that as an opportunity to give glory to God and support our brothers and sisters. How we do that is a matter of individual conscience. No Christian is required to be poor. (Unless, of course, they have taken a vow of poverty or God calls them to it.)

I am not implying that Christians have to be poor or destitute. The love of poverty is about detachment from the material things of the earth. It is also about compassion for the poor.

St. Francis of Assisi embraced poverty, humility love of creation and simplicity. That this cardinal is the very first pope to choose the name Francis, after St. Francis of Assisi certainly indicates these things are what his papal mission is all about.

Nobody could better say why he choose Francis than the new pope. He wants a poor church that is for the poor Me too!.

Atheist here. When I first heard that he had chosen the name Francis, I knew in my heart that he had chosen it for St. Francis of Assissi. Reading what he has said and listening to him speak makes me cry. He gives me hope, too. Not going to run out to mass but I do think he is exactly what we need right now as a human society. Someone who cares for the poor and downtrodden and the planet itself. I don't agree with all of his positions but those two things right there are what I see as being the most in jeopardy at this time. That said, I see Pope Francis, so far, as being an individual in a position of immense power, respect and authority. If he does stick to these things, then he has the potential of changing what I sometimes perceive as pervasive and toxic attitudes within humanity, itself.

In other words, I really like him. He's just what is needed.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Let's just say .. the Catholic church has reasons for each of it's beliefs.

To maintain its power over its believers. This is the reason for its beliefs

reply to post by MamaJ


I agree, I think its all just a game. I for one will NOT be deceived