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Originally posted by Diablos
Originally posted by Urantia1111
I don't think scientists know everything there is to know about space or physics. In fact id estimate their comprehension of the universe at practically zero percent. Our pathetic species is barely out of the jungle technologically. We've only been engaged in heavy industry for a couple hundred years. You really think that's all the time we need? Our understanding of existance is in the fetal stages at best. In short, its WAY too early for Man to be spouting off about what's "impossible".
That may be true, but you're falling into the same illogical trap that all of the other believers are on this thread. Indeed, there is so much more to learn, which is fascinating. However, that does not at all mean what we currently is know is outright wrong.
The physics that governs everyday life is fully understood. This is where any practical applications in the near or distant future will come from. The few area we have to fill in (intergalactic distances, planck scale, etc) will never lead to anything practical.
I highly suggest you read a more indepth analysis of this in this [url=http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2010/09/23/the-laws-underlying-the-physics-of-everyday-life-are-completely-understood/]article[/ url] by renowned cosmologist Sean Carroll.
There will be no inertial dampeners, mass manipulators, space warps, and all of the other nonsense that has remained in science-fiction for the past 50 years. Using the fact that there is much we still don't understand as a justification for these fantasies is a non-sequtiur.
"We actually do understand gravity: it is described by Einstein’s general relativity. Not deep down at the quantum level, of course, but that’s very far from the world of the “everyday.”" That's wrong. Quantum mechanics is the everyday. The classical universe we see is in fact an entirely quantum mechanical universe - gravity included - operating quantum mechanically at every level. Back in 1900 they knew perfectly well that their laws didn't explain everything, but they just classified the things it didn't explain as outside the domain of discussion, and regarded the rest as an approximation that was good enough that you could call it the laws of physics. We have better approximations today, but are in fundamentally the same situation. We know that quantum mechanics and general relativity are inconsistent. We can see everyday effects of both of them. (Like gravity and computers.) We have approximations that are sufficient to predict/calculate anything we want, but we don't actually know what the rules are.
Originally posted by ZeroPropulsion
here's an interesting analysis of the stan romanek equations (yeah yeah please spare me your "fake!" cries), for people interested in the subject of time travel, bending time and zero point propulsion
synchronizeduniverse.com...
Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
Very interesting. It doesn't matter who looks at this or how smart that person is, their perspective will always be formulated from within the paradigm of physics as we currently know it. We can say that the rules of physics remain constant throughout the universe, but we really don't know that to be true... we only assume that it is. Perhaps there are different elements found on other planets and in other galaxies that we are unaware of and these elements change the possibilities in that place, but we are unaware of that. Lately there has been a lot of talk about how we exist within a computer simulation. If that is true, then all of the rules that apply to us are written in some type of code, advanced code, but code nonetheless... and it is only a matter of time before that code is broken. Anyway, great thread and great discussion.
Originally posted by ZeroPropulsion
here's an interesting analysis of the stan romanek equations (yeah yeah please spare me your "fake!" cries), for people interested in the subject of time travel, bending time and zero point propulsion
synchronizeduniverse.com...
Originally posted by ManInAsia
At the same time..you demonstrate hubris by claiming that everything is pretty much explained. I have given you many examples above which have not been explained. You think you can pick and choose which things are not important (e.g. what happens at energies of the Planck constant). You seem to think that ideas like the multiverse are not important and yet they are fundamental to how the universe would operate and there is good theoretical justification that the multiverse may actually exist.
Originally posted by ManInAsiaYour claim regarding anti-matter and alcubierre drives is also too one sided.
Originally posted by ManInAsiaAt higher levels of energies, at smaller fundamental particles, new understandings of the universe may become apparent and these understandings could open up further technological possibilities, just as relativity gave us the depth of understanding to operate GPS or target our space probes correctly.edit on 19-3-2013 by ManInAsia because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
reply to post by straddlebug
Nice signature ~ I want one of those!
Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
reply to post by Erno86
Well yes but you'd need a surface to direct your photons at to gain thrust. You'd also need a sun in the back of your space ship to get any kind of usable force.The pressure exerted on earth at 1 AU is pretty feeble 9.15 µPa (µN/m²). Using the solar radiation from the sun , using solar sails you can cut the time taken to get to pluto ( v conventional rockets) by 1/4 to 1/2. It's an acumulative effect
Ultimatly you'd still be confined by Einstein - to try get to faster than light speeds you'd just end up creating a black hole, asuming you had the energy to go for it in the first place.
Originally posted by cocotutch
While I acknowledge the extreme difficulty of what the OP discusses, back in the 1960s we as a race were extremely technically limited. Looking at what has changed between then and now would be too long to list.
It is only now as a race with our sciences and understanding of the Universe developing exponentially can we truly ponder the mysteries of achieving "Stable Wormhole" or Faster-than-light Travel and actually see it as plausible.
If the rate of our technological renaissance holds steady, the Samsung Galaxy S4 will be the equivalent of one of those ENORMOUS arm sized 'Mobile Phones' of the 1980s.
Originally posted by Gazrok
100 years ago, if you told someone we'd have men walking on the moon, they would have believed it to be just as ridiculous as you (OP) believe it to be for interstellar travel. If you had told me when I was a kid, that I'd have a phone in my pocket, where I could call anyone in the world, take pictures, navigate me to a location, and access nearly all info I'd ever want to know....I would have thought you insane.
Originally posted by BlindBastards
In the 1960’s what we’re all doing right now would have seem utterly impossible. If you were to explain the modern day internet to an average man or woman from 1963 they’d think you were talking complete nonsense. So many things - LED TV’s, bluetooth devices, wifi, even touch screen items would have seemed very alien to them fifty years ago. In 1963 these guys probably thought it impossible to land on the moon...
I, for one, believe we have been and are being visited. For what reason, who knows? As for how they get here, we cannot even begin to explain how they’d do it. They wouldn’t use something as relatively primitive as rockets.
That rate of technological renaissance has already slowed down substantially in everything other than microelectronics, and that was already by the 1960's. After discovering the periodic table, quantum mechanics, lasers, nuclear physics, there isn't much new really big practical physical science coming down. There's some occasional nifty things (e.g. graphene) but nothing really big the way it used to be. Remember there were men flying jet planes who grew up in an environment when the wealthiest still took horses and trains to get around. As a boy I flew in a jet plane going 525 miles per hour. As an adult, I fly in a jet plane going 525 miles per hour, except there is no free food and the seats are smaller. Electronics is a different story, because it depends on the cleverness of rearranging atoms. In the 1960s already progress in electronics was already very profound and rapid---and they knew it, comparing 1965 to 1925 was enormous. And they knew that they were far from physical limits, they knew how big atoms were and how big the structures they were manipulating. Well, now atoms are exactly the same size as they always were, but the structures are getting close to that size. Progress in electronics has also slowed substantially. Fastest CPU is 3-4 GHz. Fastest CPU 5 years ago was 3-4 GHz. That stagnation had NEVER occurred before in the history of digital electronics. Why? Because we are limited by physics in electronics as we are limited by physics in everything else. We are also limited in bandwidth, and because of the realities of physics and electronics, there will be no big breakthrough in using electromagnetic bandwidth. Channel encoders are now close to the Shannon limit. Again, limitations of physics and mathematics.