The difficulties of interstellar travel and the implausibility of the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis.

Diablos, good post and I think a lot of this will go over ATS members heads. Some went over mine and I actively read this stuff!

I have often heard the line that quantum mechanics is the most tested and most successful theory that scientists have ever come up with.

And yet there are many mysteries staring us in the face

- What is dark matter?
- What is dark energy?
- What exactly is quantum entanglement and how does it work?
- Why can't gravity be resolved with the other three major forces?
- What happens at the Planck constant and beyond?
- What about multiverse theory?

Also while you say that there are issues with negative matter and anti-matter that doesn't mean they can't be resolved. I don't think impediments such as large energy requirements compared to our current energy handling capabilities is worthwhile to include in this discussion. I also think time travel paradoxes can easily be solved by such propositions as multiverse theory.

You also ignored relativity theory which describes how time slows down for individuals who travel at close to the speed of light. At the speed of light (which would require infinite energy for a mass possessing object), travel would be instantaneous. I don't believe travel at the speed of light is possible but speeds 80-95% you are getting significant effects in terms of the time reduction experienced by the participants.

You also mention that a new theory would have to fit into current theories. I want to question that. Newtonian physics is fine to a certain level of detail, then it breaks down and becomes erroneous. Extremely erroneous. Relativity explains our current observations but maybe it also only explains to a certain level of detail too? You understand the point right? Theories are good at certain levels of precision or certain amounts of energy but then they can break down. Also theories are descriptions of the physical universe, but they are not perfect descriptions, but models.

Finally you didn't mention the cosmic string theory of Gott's.

Something else that I didn't notice mentioned here is the idea that perhaps other planets/galaxies are not really as far away as we think they are.

Some where there are smart people working out these very ideas of FTL travel, and one day it something good will come from it.

This is idiotic. Assuming we want to fling several hundred tons of metal thru space using some kind of linear travel is absurd. There are 'other ways' of getting from point A to B.

...and that is what the OP was talking about, their feasibility or not as it may be.

Anybody read what he posted? If you read what he posted it doesn't seem you comprehended it.


Sometimes I think forums like ATS are a good example of the extraterrestial hypothesis whereby they look down and go 'nah, couldn't be bothered...let's move on...'.

Originally posted by Diablos

Either ET is getting here by using some method that effectively circumvents the speed of light limit imposed by the fundamental laws of physics, or the ETH is flawed and should be discarded.

The heart of this problem is our inability to manipulate time. Such travel will be possible when we step outside the restrictions of time.

You people are talking about space travel like you understand it cause of all the movies and comic books you read. Your minds cannot even concede to even start thinking about the subject of space time travel. Some humans are lucky to even be able to see in three dimensions, let alone 4 or even 5. We have a long way to go before arguing this subject. Your ways of calculating and thinking this matter are archaic.

Originally posted by NotNormal
You people are talking about space travel like you understand it cause of all the movies and comic books you read. Your minds cannot even concede to even start thinking about the subject of space time travel. Some humans are lucky to even be able to see in three dimensions, let alone 4 or even 5. We have a long way to go before arguing this subject. Your ways of calculating and thinking this matter are archaic.

Exactly! Until a person can grasp, really understand, things like infinity, null, and absolute values, then compound this with dimensions (including time), they will not be able to talk the possibility of space travel as this thread suggest - think outside the box people!

I don't think scientists know everything there is to know about space or physics. In fact id estimate their comprehension of the universe at practically zero percent. Our pathetic species is barely out of the jungle technologically. We've only been engaged in heavy industry for a couple hundred years. You really think that's all the time we need? Our understanding of existance is in the fetal stages at best. In short, its WAY too early for Man to be spouting off about what's "impossible".

You are thinking like a caveman, your way of thinking is so human and primitive.

Imagine what people think about what was possible 1000 years ago?

Out there could be civilizations that are 1,000 years or more advanced than we are. Also right now you don't know what tech the USA has, to give you an example look at the year they build the SR-71 blackbird. The first time it flew was on 1962, I think that at last they start building it in 1950.

If the USA has the amazing tech to start building the SR-71 blackbird do you imagine what thing they have right now? Maybe they have already build anti gravity aircraft.

Another thing is that you are viewing the exploration of space with humans or aliens, you could explore the space with advanced robots, I bet that the greys are robots, organic robots build to explore space.

Also view the movie Avatar you could send robots and use them like on the movie Avatar, you could see, feel, and do everything like you are in some world without the risk of having your body in a strange world.

As we have already seen there is no limit to technology, every time we think there is a limit on something a new discovery appears, I think technology is infinite and the more we invest in tech there are going to find new ways to explore space, also advanced civilizations could share us the tech and with this we will the latest tech instantly without waiting for years to build it.

Originally posted by AlexIR
Did i just read "The absurdity of faster than light travel" ? In terms of physics and what we know about them we are stil at the begining, because we know a limit today, doesn't mean that limit will be there tomorrow, because someone from almost 100 years ago said light speed is the limit, doesn't mean that is the limit. Just look at how many old theories have been changed or proven wrong.

Its just like the idea that aliens need water to function even though we have such a small grasp of biology.

This ignorance of so called "scientists" amazes me. They are so narrow-minded it makes you doubt their intelligence.

Excellent answer. This is the narrow-mindness that pisses me off about those so called scientists. They took some diplom and now everybody should bow before theor righteousness as if they are some God and cannot be wrong, but hey they act as if certain about everything.

And let me add another factori of the MANY that can exist - space in other parts away from the solar system may nehave diffirently. OP, have your read about anomalies when Voyager is to leave the Solar System?

Who knows what may be out? There may be so many things that, ok let's call this a theory. but it's wrong because all suggests there may be other ways.

reply to post by Diablos


Just because we can't imagine something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

As we move along through history we keep on discovering things.

Sure we can't travel at the speed of light now. It doesn't mean that we can't in the future.
Or maybe even figure out a way to bypass our travel limitations.

It`s only been 100 years since mankind has discovered how to fly so I seriously doubt that we have learned everything there is to know about flying in just 100 years.

I think that would be like a first grader who decides, that after only their first day of school, that they have learned everything that there is to know so they can now drop out of school.

Exactly! I love these 'experts' who come on claiming it can never happen!?!! LOL 100 years of flight..we know it ALL hhuh?


reply to post by Tardacus

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac
200 hundred year's ago it was implausable to bend metal and fly around the world,200 hundred years ago it was implausable to communicate with somebody on the otherside of the world in under 24 hrs.200 years ago it was implausable to flick on a switch to light a room.200 hundred year's ago gorrila's did not exist. 200 hundred years ago you couldn't even communicate your hypothisis to all of us .What you talking bout willis?

I agree fully. Who’s to say in 200 years’ time we'll be taking vacations on the moon or mars. But let’s look further down the road to 5000 or even 10,000 years (If the human race survives that long). Imagine what kinds of technology will be available then.
IMHO I would say that the current scientific theories for space travel would indeed put a damper on any excursions to other solar systems/galaxies but as previously stated who knows what the future holds.

OP has a lot of facts in this thread, but the thread is flawed. Think of the stars and planets that are already billions of light years ahead of us. That would put the life on one of those planets, (and its technology) so far ahead of ours, it would be inconceivable to think what kind of tech they use to get around. How do we truly know that some life that's hundreds of billions of light years away doesn't come visit now, and again. It would just be ignorant to think we know definitively that nothing is, or could visit us.

I'm not saying light speed travel isn't important... but how about we solve some of the seemingly impossible tasks here on Earth first? Things like abundant clean water and food, cancer and virus cures, free energy, etc.

Quickly browsed through the OP and noticed a couple of problems using that study to conclude the implausibility of the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis.
1. Article only appears to assume linear travel?

phys.org...

Although no experimental evidence for wormholes exists, scientists predict that they would appear to serve as shortcuts between one point of spacetime and another

Read more at: phys.org...

2. We can't answer anything before the big bang. So it could be possible for an advance civilizations to exists that could exploit unknown physics to us but not to them?


So IMO this article doesn't fully nullify the possibility of far distance travels among an advance civilizations.

While I agree that no human mind currently has any idea about how to get to another star system in a reasonable time for a living crew, i do believe there are other options.

A.I. controlled ship with human DNA stored on board and a method to recreate a crew at the destination. A.I. nannies to bring up the crew until they're old and sensible enough to take some kind of control and act as potential colonists. Same goes for other species on other planets (asuming they exist). If looked at from the perspective of a human lifetime it does seem daunting.

Even travelling at a fraction of the speed of light you'd get there eventually. As long as we could get up to 42.1 km/s ( from earth, less as solar system edge) then we could achieve the velocity required to leave the solar system.

Sure it isn't going to happen this week but give it a few hundred years, who knows. What is a fact is we who are currently alive are not going to be getting any tickets.

I am certain that there at this moment does exist the technology for instantaneous communication which is not constrained by the speed of light. I have talked personally with a man who worked on the project. SO given that I have no doubt there is a way to move from one point in space to another without the constraint of the speed of light.

What we THINK we know and what is REALLY known are two entirely different issues. I suspect the technology and capabilities we are allowed to see and what really exists are decades apart.

Just because you cant imagine things a thousand years ahead in our future...doesnt mean its not possible.100 years ago they said "If man was supposed to fly...God would have given him wings!"...but we did fly, and travel past the speed of sound...but our ancestors couldnt imagine such a possiblilty.

Neither can you....get back to us in 1,000 or 1,000,000 years or so...what's IMPAUSIBLE is your ability to recognize that there WILL one day be a way....you should have prefaced "right now" with our CURRENT" technology...there's no way we can see...yet.