Atheism vs. God-Belief (the final debate).

reply to post by NewAgeMan


What fall are you talking about, then?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Fall from heaven and separation from God of a creature who wanted to rise above the firmament and proclaim himself to be God, that one. The big fall which introduced separation from Source based on nothing but ego.

The one who was to be is or will be chained and thrown into the abyss which means oblivion (non existence).

Which leads me to suspect that it's not a creature at all, but a systemic ego-based clod of some sort, and one which has been trying to drag humanity down for millennium but who's time, thank heaven, is limited.

Can't get it down the drain fast enough though imho when we look around at all the damage it has wrought within and among us and even in the outer, natural world as well.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

Are you a Satanist? I noticed one time you used the phrase "blessed be" which is satanist lingo.

Wiccan, which is not Satanic in the least. It's called nature worship, and it utilize the forces of nature to enact a Wiccan's will. Of course, most Wiccans only utilize the forces in order to harmonize with the earth, creating a sense of serenity within oneself. Their rituals and traditions have the same purpose as the Catholic mass and communion. They're just less conservative about it. If you want to have an intelligent conversation, you may want to do your research. Little slip-ups like that make you sound woefully Puritan and wholly uneducated.

I see. "Less conservative about it" Ha! That's hilarious.. (I hope you don't ingest the Eucharist..)

Have you considered the underlying design of the natural world and the idea that this implies a designer? Furthermore have you considered re: the Godhead, that such a one is fully informed and therefore knows all and sees all?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Fall from heaven and separation from God of a creature who wanted to rise above the firmament and proclaim himself to be God, that one. The big fall which introduced separation from Source based on nothing but ego.

How do we know that he didn't get that mentality from his old man? I suspect that hanging around "God" all the time may have rubbed off on Lucifer. If "God" sees us as inferior, then why wouldn't his angels? Philosophically speaking, it's nigh on impossible for any artist to create a piece of artwork that doesn't resemble his or herself in some way. Bearing that in mind, it makes sense to think that something of Lucifer's regard for humans may have originated in "God" himself. But it would never do for us to learn that. Our rebellion would mean one of two things - our destruction, or his.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

In Christ, although we are fallible and less than (perfect), we are made equal to.

There's a big time blindspot in your rebellious thinking. You just don't understand and based on what you're saying, you will not be given to understand, not in this lifetime anyway.

I feel sorry for you, and your quest for power. To be honest I think it's pathetic, not courageous, just egotistical even vain.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

There's a big time blindspot in your rebellious thinking. You just don't understand and based on what you're saying, you will not be given to understand, not in this lifetime anyway.

What blindspot? Come on, tell me.

I feel sorry for you, and your quest for power. To be honest I think it's pathetic, not courageous, just egotistical even vain.

There's a big difference between power and balance. We've placed far too much power outside and not nearly enough inside. I'm talking about spiritual osmosis. Not serving, but sharing. Is being equal so terrible? Or must one always be held above the other?

I don't see that as pathetic. I see that as judicious. Ego is thinking you deserve more than another. I say we deserve as much as. Vanity? There is no vanity in equality. If we fight for equality in life, then let us have equality in the afterlife as well. If we fight for freedom in life, then let our afterlife be one of freedom too.

My communion is the consummation of and co-mingling with the Spirit of God with man as the Bride who, together in partnership, offer a free invitation to all who thirst to freely drink the non-dual water of life which is the free flow of eternal life as it is. I love and honor the creator (and the creator of the creator as a role) for the free gift of life and hope to increasingly better reflect and magnify his essence and substance, which is love itself.

See my avatar to the left for the allegory, as my hope for a new age of Spirit and reason and the logos of love made manifest even now through the eternally unfolding moment. Amen.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

There's a big time blindspot in your rebellious thinking. You just don't understand and based on what you're saying, you will not be given to understand, not in this lifetime anyway.

What blindspot? Come on, tell me.

The incorruptible comes from above like a towrope from heaven or in the case of Christ (logos of love) as the hand capable of lifting us out of the pit of ignorance and wiping away the tears from our eyes, to always and forever raise and lift up what is lowly (and corrupted) to increasingly higher heights (of increasing incorruptibility).

The blindspot is what we presume to know when the entire domain of all knowledge is in the domain of the unknown unknown or what we didn't even know we didn't know (blinded by ego).

A closed mind that holds a contemptuous bias, prior to investigation, is a blindspot.

We cannot get there from here. We must be reborn, from above, and apart from God we can do nothing (are powerless).

Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

The blindspot is what we presume to know when the entire domain of all knowledge is in the domain of the unknown unknown or what we didn't even know we didn't know (blinded by ego).

You can't tell me I'm wrong then, because your knowledge may just be a product of ignorance.

A closed mind that holds a contemptuous bias, prior to investigation, is a blindspot.

You mean a mind that holds an opinion you don't like.

We cannot get there from here. We must be reborn, from above, and apart from God we can do nothing (are powerless).

That's a steaming pile of crap. We have never been powerless. Powerless is another word for not having as much control as we want, and we always have enough control to make a last stand.

Nicodemus and Jesus - Reborn
go to 2:24 in the vid - segment runs to 5:35

Note catefully the subtle nuances (intentionally directed) in this exchange between Jesus and Nicodemus surrounding the issue of rebirth. (hint: consider his questionable lineage..)

Our "blindspot" is the ENTIRE domain of ALL real knowledge and understanding.

And what is "the wind that blows where it will" but radically free?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Powerless is another word for not having as much control as we want, and we always have enough control to make a last stand.

Jesus demonstrated this perfectly where the power was exercised and realized in apparent weakness. What a marvel!

Apart from God however, it amounts to nothing - just look at the power players of the world today who think they have all power and the damage they cause. Where does that come from but the pride of man and the will and lust for power..?

I thank Christ in the infinite wisdom of the Spirit bestowed upon him for placing a double-bind on "the strong man" (ego and pride of man) and leaving his house utterly desolate (leaving nothing of value behind) so that everything that's worthwhile might be held in reserve and ultimately restored, both in this life and in the life to come. Amen.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


You choose to remain dependent. That is your choice. But I choose to be spiritually independent. If a spiritual entity decides it wishes to share with me, then I am willing. But if any spiritual entity wants to own or command me, it can kiss my keister.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Just remember that where our own intellect and reason and logic fails, in relation to the Reality, that the Spirit has one of its own capable of informing us with truth and wisdom love and courage and confidence, which leads to another kind of fearlessness altogether which is not bravado and does not come across as arrogant because it's a confidence not of this world.. if anything it's humorous.

P.S. It's not that I'm dependent, just that my own ego's reason and logic falls apart in heaps of laughter at the Spirit's reason and logic, so it's like a living water which fills and satisfies and which never ends the mere taste of which keeps me coming back for more.

Your problem is you think the you that you think you are is the REAL you, and as a result you take yourself seriously and want to gain and wield power. It's absurd, you're absurd. I admit that "I" am that's not a problem at all. Who we REALLY are OTOH now there's a mystery worth further investigation and exploration.. but if just the ego-self and all his conceptions and distortions and justifications, no thanks.

P.S. Don't eat and drink that Eucharist.


Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Your problem is you think the you that you think you are is the REAL you, and as a result you take yourself seriously and want to gain and wield power. It's absurd, you're absurd. I admit that "I" am that's not a problem at all. Who we REALLY are OTOH now there's a mystery worth further investigation and exploration.. but if just the ego-self and all his conceptions and distortions and justifications, no thanks.

My problem is I am taking this manifestation of myself too seriously? Why the hell shouldn't I? It's real enough, I might as well take advantage. I'm going to be here until either I kill myself or something else does, so I may as well establish some form of control over my life. And instead of asking some god to do it, I want to do it myself because I want to manage my life. If anyone should do it, it's me. Otherwise, I might as well kill myself. After all, this isn't really me, is it?

Yeah, I want control over my life. So I'm a bad guy because of that. Whoever came up with that code of ethic was a real genius. And you, you think I'm absurd because of that? Then why don't you go take a nap on some rail road tracks? No? Why not? Oh, because you take your current manifestation seriously? Okay then! Don't treat me like I'm an idiot for wanting some modicum of physical and emotional control over my life. And I'll be damned if I hand the wheel over to some overbearing narcissistic delusional figment of my emotional imagination. I'll be the god of my life because at least I know I can rely on me to some extent. I can have a conversation with myself, for cripes sake! More than I can say for your crappy deity...

reply to post by AfterInfinity

One Spirit, One God, One Condition - many facets.

The only thing I know is that I'm the Bride of Christ, or a human manifestation of the Spirit of the infinite eternal Godhead. That's my TRUE self.

My argument, as you may come to recognize, is for man as something utterly extraordinary, not merely as the flesh or as an ego-self, but containing &/or reflecting the very same Spirit of the Living God responsible for the whole of all Creation including the Earth, the Moon, the Sun, the Planets, and the Starry Skies above and below.

You say you worship the creation including yourself, but I worship that which underpins it, gives is form and life and which ultimately transcends it as a first/last cause and by worship I mean communion with, not supplication but reverence for.

In the end and in the final analysis I will be arguing for something much much greater than the atheist is capable (given the constraints of their own label and definition), that is capable of taking our breath away and of uplifting us to the heights, whereas the atheist argument will be forced to argue for man as a "thing", as an "it" or at best an ego-driven self-conception (Narcissus) and in the process reducing us from our true stature as being made to reflect nothing less than the Infinite Eternal Godhead (Light of Life - Consciousness), as Jesus himself reflected perfectly, just like the Moon does the Sun (as the by-design allegory).

Keep an open mind, you never know, perhaps even our positions might intersect.. after all given enough time anything is possible and eventually, actual.

Best Regards,

NAM

Originally posted by SoulReaper
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
was a message delivered to the occult prophet Aleister Crowley, from a being who called himself the great serpent.
This being knows the end of man "doing what he wills" and would like nothing more then to see man exercise his supposed "freedom".
This spirit also called men and women "stars"... hmm.. coincidence?
Soul

No coincidence at all; and I am gratified you picked up on this. There are alternative thinking patterns available that describe another truth, add them all together and eventually personal revelation occurs. The Being Crowley was in communication with has only the best intentions for Mankinds destiny (Crowley himself very misunderstood).

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Although I must say that this is a good example of who and what "God" isn't..



Edit to add: It sure is funny though and demonstrates a certain degree of awareness and understanding on his part.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Although I must say that this is a good example of who and what "God" isn't..

What is that; something inbred--not a blueblood what is the contraption on its head, a shrinkalator or a dematerializing device, quite the answer to the popian conical hat (egyptian undercurrents). This thing looks a bit petulant/preturbed; ready to use a flamethrower on the mob in the square; not wearing a wristwatch though.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Not sure what "it" is (that's funny) but I think I have a pretty good idea what it thinks it is..

If I were to add a tagline to it, with an arrow pointing at it, it would say something like

Is THIS as good as it gets?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

There's a big time blindspot in your rebellious thinking. You just don't understand and based on what you're saying, you will not be given to understand, not in this lifetime anyway.

What blindspot? Come on, tell me.

I feel sorry for you, and your quest for power. To be honest I think it's pathetic, not courageous, just egotistical even vain.

There's a big difference between power and balance. We've placed far too much power outside and not nearly enough inside. I'm talking about spiritual osmosis. Not serving, but sharing. Is being equal so terrible? Or must one always be held above the other?

I don't see that as pathetic. I see that as judicious. Ego is thinking you deserve more than another. I say we deserve as much as. Vanity? There is no vanity in equality. If we fight for equality in life, then let us have equality in the afterlife as well. If we fight for freedom in life, then let our afterlife be one of freedom too.

Are you kidding me? Look around - everything has been given us, and for those who can see and experience it the same unconditioned ground of all being and becoming (freedom, liberation) is still available still right here now in spite of any appearances or illusions to the contrary. God has shared everything with us, the whole kit and caboodle the whole enchilada as they say. It's the way it was made - for sharing.

"Therefore do not be afraid nor let your hearts be troubled, little ones, for it pleased the father (first father of creation) to share his kingdom with all his children!"

But love your enemies, do good to them, and give to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

.

With that in mind please forgive me for being so antagonistic and unloving.

See that's en example of a submission where by the word I can see that I was wrong, which convicts me of my error, which I would like to take immediately responsibility for, and correct.

I've been a little nasty to you, and it's not in or of the Spirit when I am like that, and I shouldn't let you get my goat so to speak.

Best Regards,

NAM

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by vethumanbeing

 

Not sure what "it" is (that's funny) but I think I have a pretty good idea what it thinks it is..

If I were to add a tagline to it, with an arrow pointing at it, it would say something like

Is THIS as good as it gets?

Could be worse, at least the pent-up-agram is right side up; as a Halloween costume no, needs goat/ram horns. Crowley looks very serious here, probably shattered the camera lens.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

Somewhat petulant though, you're right, so it's not bad, somewhat funny, but if he thinks he's the ultimate joker I'm pretty sure he's sadly mistaken.