Enlightenment and God. (biblical view)

reply to post by bb23108


To say that there is only one path to peace and salvation, or enlightenment, is akin to saying there is only one way to have amuse yourself - each is limited only by your imagination and your determination.

If believing in Jesus gives you the strength to get out of bed, then more power to you. But that doesn't justify the condemnation of those who take their strength from other ideas. Inspiration is wonderful in all of its forms, and without diversity, how can we ever expect to plumb the depths of spirituality?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by bb23108

 

To say that there is only one path to peace and salvation, or enlightenment, is akin to saying there is only one way to have amuse yourself - each is limited only by your imagination and your determination.

It would help if you defined your terms, especially "enlightenment". It is a term that is used like love these days - too commonly and without a full understanding of what these words actually are pointing at.

When I speak of complete Enlightenment, I am speaking of realizing the Unconditional Divine Reality - not the lesser or partial realizations many other people use this word to describe. E.g., the ever-growing number of would-be gurus who get a taste of non-duality and think they are now enlightened. Okay, that insight is true enough, but Enlightened? That insight is simply the foundation understanding, but they call it enlightenment. So the need for further clarification of what these terms mean.

And I certainly do not say there are not endless ways to amuse one another!

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
If believing in Jesus gives you the strength to get out of bed, then more power to you. But that doesn't justify the condemnation of those who take their strength from other ideas. Inspiration is wonderful in all of its forms, and without diversity, how can we ever expect to plumb the depths of spirituality?

I agree if believing in Jesus works for people, since he was truly a great Spiritual Master, that is very very good. I am only trying to encourage some believers who may not understand his esoteric teachings to perhaps look a bit more deeply and consider other possibilities. I certainly am not condemning anyone's beliefs, just questioning various matters. I am actually not sure what you are basing your accusations on.

I am mainly having a discussion with dominicus about his understanding of the esoterics of Christianity and enlightenment altogether - basically the topic of this thread..

reply to post by bb23108

It would help if you defined your terms, especially "enlightenment". It is a term that is used like love these days - too commonly and without a full understanding of what these words actually are pointing at.

Increased awareness or understanding, essentially. Basically more aware or understanding than you were, with "were" meaning any previous point in time.

When I speak of complete Enlightenment, I am speaking of realizing the Unconditional Divine Reality - not the lesser or partial realizations many other people use this word to describe. E.g., the ever-growing number of would-be gurus who get a taste of non-duality and think they are now enlightened. Okay, that insight is true enough, but Enlightened? That insight is simply the foundation understanding, but they call it enlightenment. So the need for further clarification of what these terms mean.

There's no need to go all Webster on it. Keep it simple, silly.

I agree if believing in Jesus works for people, since he was truly a great Spiritual Master, that is very very good. I am only trying to encourage some believers who may not understand his esoteric teachings to perhaps look a bit more deeply and consider other possibilities. I certainly am not condemning anyone's beliefs, just questioning various matters. I am actually not sure what you are basing your accusations on.

All the people claiming that if you don't take your strength from Jesus and the same god they do, you are lost. All those people running around the bottom of the mountain and telling everyone else that their path is wrong.

I am mainly having a discussion with dominicus about his understanding of the esoterics of Christianity and enlightenment altogether - basically the topic of this thread..

The title says "Biblical view". The view taken from the same material that has people running around telling everyone else they are wrong for thinking differently.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by bb23108

 

Increased awareness or understanding, essentially. Basically more aware or understanding than you were, with "were" meaning any previous point in time.

Okay, this is the more common use of the word. What I am discussing relative to Enlightenment is what is spoken about by various spiritual realizers regarding the various attributes of Enlightenment. I also spoke from this same point of view to the op of that thread "I claim complete enlightenment" and you can see where I asked him why he was not manifesting various attributes that the realizers all proclaim.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

When I speak of complete Enlightenment, I am speaking of realizing the Unconditional Divine Reality - not the lesser or partial realizations many other people use this word to describe. E.g., the ever-growing number of would-be gurus who get a taste of non-duality and think they are now enlightened. Okay, that insight is true enough, but Enlightened? That insight is simply the foundation understanding, but they call it enlightenment. So the need for further clarification of what these terms mean.

There's no need to go all Webster on it. Keep it simple, silly.

I imagine your definition is more like what is in Webster. The Enlightenment spoken of in the great spiritual traditions has been watered down to how you are using it now, which is fine, but also why we need to make sure we are talking about the same thing - which you and I often are not. Thus the need for clear definitions.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
All the people claiming that if you don't take your strength from Jesus and the same god they do, you are lost. All those people running around the bottom of the mountain and telling everyone else that their path is wrong.

Okay, I understand now what you are saying. But next time please be clearer in your communication as you were replying to me - so I did not know you were not addressing what I actually said, but were speaking more generally about Christian fundamentalists.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
The title says "Biblical view". The view taken from the same material that has people running around telling everyone else they are wrong for thinking differently.

"Biblical view" is not necessarily how most people may be thinking about it. I think what the OP is getting at is that it should be kept to what is in the Bible, and what is anyone's view of that. So I will let the OP decide on this one, though he already has said something appreciative about the various posts relative to Jesus and esotericism.

Yes, bb20318 (sorry if mis'spelled' ) and Afterinfinity.

When the spiritual has been written down, it is imaginable in the mind of the writer, but for the reader to comprehend truly he/(she?) must have realised these same things too. There are those who consider themselves to know just because they understand the words and the sentences formed with those words, but aren't truly (thus) enlightened (too). They can only repeat these things like a parrot and have no deeper understanding in these issues. They fall through the basket when in conversations.

It is to maintain the heart of life.

By knowing Jesus one doesn't 'know' Jesus, yet he knows aspects of Him because the mind cannot fully grasp the complete jesus? Or is it God?

Originally posted by Angle
When the spiritual has been written down, it is imaginable in the mind of the writer, but for the reader to comprehend truly he/(she?) must have realised these same things too. There are those who consider themselves to know just because they understand the words and the sentences formed with those words, but aren't truly (thus) enlightened (too). They can only repeat these things like a parrot and have no deeper understanding in these issues. They fall through the basket when in conversations.

It is to maintain the heart of life.

Well said. Yes there is a tendency to simply talk about spiritual matters far more than practicing them. It has only been in these modern times that esoteric matters have become public knowledge. Jesus definitely did not make these matters very publicly known - he spoke in parables and in ways that were secret in terms of double meanings. The esoteric practitioners would understand what he was saying because they also experienced his blessing transmission of the Spirit.

reply to post by Angle


In terms of practicality, all things of importance must be written down. In terms of evolution, records must keep pace with the growth of the civilized world. Ideas evolve daily, and with those ideas, their expressions must also evolve. Otherwise, the physical mediums to which those ideas are anchored will prevent the progression of our understanding, much the way chaining a train to the station will hinder a smooth transition to the next stage of the journey.

Originally posted by dominicus
The Inflamed Heart is where this Awareness/Observer drops down into, in order to access Source/God. He's pointing to the heart in lot of these depictions cause he's saying, that's where you have to penetrate in order to be complete and find Enlightenment.

I considered the picture you posted of Jesus and am thinking that he is pointing to his heart as a way to remind his followers that the way is through him via love - and he is also pointing up with the other hand, as though he is saying his way is to the Light above the body-mind.

What I am getting at is that I do not find esoteric references that Jesus is making relative to the heart, though they are obvious to me relative to the Light above. Jesus seems to represent more of the way of ascent into the God-Light above than some of the esoteric discoveries of the East relative to the heart chakra, etc.

I am not saying I disagree with what you have presented relative to falling into the heart, it is just that I don't see any language in the Bible that indicates this aspect of the process in association with Jesus - other than the simple guidelines to love with your whole heart, etc. But again, that seems to me to be more about preparing the body-mind to awaken to the God-Light above.

Your thoughts (and anyone else's) if you please.

Originally posted by bb23108

Originally posted by dominicus
The Inflamed Heart is where this Awareness/Observer drops down into, in order to access Source/God. He's pointing to the heart in lot of these depictions cause he's saying, that's where you have to penetrate in order to be complete and find Enlightenment.

I considered the picture you posted of Jesus and am thinking that he is pointing to his heart as a way to remind his followers that the way is through him via love - and he is also pointing up with the other hand, as though he is saying his way is to the Light above the body-mind.

edit on 19-3-2013 by bb23108 because:

It is through Love, but there is a Love that surpasses all understanding, a mystical Transcendent Love. For example when I got the Holy SPirit and my Ego Died, I was filled with Bliss that was so enormous I literally Loved everyone, all stranger, all people that had done me wrong in the past. I understood that "bad" was done out of ignorance and ego, but that still inside each person is the Soul which is like a drop of water from the ocean of God.

You can't do any of this yourself. God meets you half way and smacks you with a dose of Grace so large, that the rest of the Mystical insights occur freely as gifts.

There is also the method of Eastern Orthodoxy which does the Jesus Prayer for all waking hours of the day while keeping all awareness on the Heart area. This eventually also produces Grace, cleans out the cobwebs of ego and subconscious, and pulls the observer down into the heart, from the head, and into Union w/ God.

What I am getting at is that I do not find esoteric references that Jesus is making relative to the heart, though they are obvious to me relative to the Light above. Jesus seems to represent more of the way of ascent into the God-Light above than some of the esoteric discoveries of the East relative to the heart chakra, etc.

JEsus said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is Within You" and has discussed various parables that have to do with going within, with the heart, with digging deep to unveil an inner treasure, and there are traditions 2000 years old that work on Union with God by going within. WHen the Union is experienced, it feels like there is no more you and that you have merged with the Infinite and are nowhere and paradoxically everywhere at the same time. Much of this comes from Grace, Surrender, LEtting Go, and purification of the Ego.

You can speculate all types of ways of how it can be and what Jesus meant, but when you seek Jesus and the Kingdom, he will unveil to you in the same way that he has all the Saints, Monks, Mystics, Hermits, and Enlightened Beings.

I've literally seen the Ego come out of the heart when waking in the morning, and then slowly descend back into it when falling asleep at night. When you descend into the Source of the EGo, you cut it off at the roots and rest in Union w/ God

I am not saying I disagree with what you have presented relative to falling into the heart, it is just that I don't see any language in the Bible that indicates this aspect of the process in association with Jesus - other than the simple guidelines to love with your whole heart, etc. But again, that seems to me to be more about preparing the body-mind to awaken to the God-Light above.

THat's because the NT is like Jesus trying to explain Quantum Physics to 5 years olds.

Luke 8:10 "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."

THe Mysteries are the direct experiences. To find out more about them you have to go in search of the Mystics, Hermits, Monks, and Saints within the Christian Tradition who have experienced these things and wrote about them in detail. Otherwise, all you will find is a bunch of watered down teachings that have created an Exoteric Dogmatic Religion.

To access the testimonies of those who knew the Mysteries you have Teresa of Avila, St. John of The Cross, Miester Eckhart, modern day would be Bernadette Roberts, look up the Cloud Of Unknowing, The Philokalia, just Google "Christian Union with God" or "Christian Mysticism" and you'll come across all the evidence to back what I say here.

reply to post by dominicus
Thank you for your well-considered reply! I have studied several of those Christian mystics you mentioned, though it has been awhile. A lot that can be considered here.

It seems that Jesus taught and demonstrated that sacrifice of self (the ego principle) is the Truth of the heart and is based in Love. He blessed his disciples with this way of ego-transcendence which connects the heart (love) and the head (light) and this connection provides the means for the Holy Spirit to flood the body with Light and Love-Bliss.

Thus the Father (the Source Light above the body-mind) and the Son (the Heart, the Truth, Love, the Way) must become One for the Divine Spirit to fully manifest in and as the whole body-mind.

Originally posted by bb23108
reply to post by dominicus

 

Thank you for your well-considered reply! I have studied several of those Christian mystics you mentioned, though it has been awhile. A lot that can be considered here.

It seems that Jesus taught and demonstrated that sacrifice of self (the ego principle) is the Truth of the heart and is based in Love. He blessed his disciples with this way of ego-transcendence which connects the heart (love) and the head (light) and this connection provides the means for the Holy Spirit to flood the body with Light and Love-Bliss.

Thus the Father (the Source Light above the body-mind) and the Son (the Heart, the Truth, Love, the Way) must become One for the Divine Spirit to fully manifest in and as the whole body-mind.

edit on 20-3-2013 by bb23108 because:

yeah you hit the nail on the head. The cool thing though, is many times, or most times, in the Christian tradition, the Holy Spirit enters you (after water baptism) and starts all the work even if your not ready for it, i.e. haven't had the head+heart fully cleansed and ready.

So the Spirit descends, slays the ego, puts one in the Timeless Now, Transcendence, destroys any clinging to worldly and old ways, and old ego ways, and spends the next years/decades perfecting the Soul/Enlightenment/Union/Bliss/Etc ...the question whether there is submission, surrender, and priority to this as many times the fragmented ego pieces return and the world beckons.

Hence the reason for the Hermits/Monks where they worked this out full time...but the householder can do so too, though it's harder.

That's the beauty of the Christian Mystical tradition, is you only search out and approach God a portion of the way, then God/Grace/Holy Spirit does the rest and all that has to be done is constant letting go/surrender/meditation for the rest to follow

reply to post by Angle


You are looking for an epiphany in your mind but its origin is from the heart. The path to become enlightened is paved with love, the most powerful harmonic vibration in existence. Feel love not within, but projected outward beyond the self ... towards all

Originally posted by dominicus

Originally posted by bb23108
reply to post by dominicus

 

Thank you for your well-considered reply! I have studied several of those Christian mystics you mentioned, though it has been awhile. A lot that can be considered here.

It seems that Jesus taught and demonstrated that sacrifice of self (the ego principle) is the Truth of the heart and is based in Love. He blessed his disciples with this way of ego-transcendence which connects the heart (love) and the head (light) and this connection provides the means for the Holy Spirit to flood the body with Light and Love-Bliss.

Thus the Father (the Source Light above the body-mind) and the Son (the Heart, the Truth, Love, the Way) must become One for the Divine Spirit to fully manifest in and as the whole body-mind.

edit on 20-3-2013 by bb23108 because:

yeah you hit the nail on the head. The cool thing though, is many times, or most times, in the Christian tradition, the Holy Spirit enters you (after water baptism) and starts all the work even if your not ready for it, i.e. haven't had the head+heart fully cleansed and ready.

So the Spirit descends, slays the ego, puts one in the Timeless Now, Transcendence, destroys any clinging to worldly and old ways, and old ego ways, and spends the next years/decades perfecting the Soul/Enlightenment/Union/Bliss/Etc ...the question whether there is submission, surrender, and priority to this as many times the fragmented ego pieces return and the world beckons.

Hence the reason for the Hermits/Monks where they worked this out full time...but the householder can do so too, though it's harder.

That's the beauty of the Christian Mystical tradition, is you only search out and approach God a portion of the way, then God/Grace/Holy Spirit does the rest and all that has to be done is constant letting go/surrender/meditation for the rest to follow

edit on 20-3-2013 by dominicus because: (no reason given)

sorry, should have read the thread first as I just parroted what had already been said

reply to post by anoncoholic

sorry, should have read the thread first as I just parroted what had already been said

Sounds like mindwashing.

Originally posted by dominicus
That's the beauty of the Christian Mystical tradition, is you only search out and approach God a portion of the way, then God/Grace/Holy Spirit does the rest and all that has to be done is constant letting go/surrender/meditation for the rest to follow

edit on 20-3-2013 by dominicus because: (no reason given)

It makes me wonder why so many Christians are not able to make the confession of receiving the Holy Spirit to the point where their lives are transformed and focused on what Jesus was actually offering. Obviously much of this is due to the fact that the esoteric aspects of the Bible have been overridden with the exoteric institutional versions and interpretations.

And yet, the Trinity is still spoken of, and other esoteric matters - and thus my question as to why there are not more spiritual confessions. I guess it is the age old answer - even if truth is staring one in the face, it often is denied acknowledgement.

Your response also answers what I asked you earlier regarding your personal relationship with the Divine, Jesus, and the Spirit, and whether you still relate to Jesus as your Spiritual Master. It seems that you do because you indicate that he is the Way and you are a practitioner of that Way. At least that is my interpretation of your responses.

*******************
I think that adage in Buddhism stating "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." is very misunderstood. It is used as a way to justify the stench of enlightenment - people have some insight into the Truth and they think they "GET IT"! But to then dismiss one's Master, Spiritual Companion, etc., is often the ego wanting to grab the gift and use it for one's own glorification - and sometimes even wanting to become a guru themselves!

All the Christian mystics seem to declare otherwise - they happily worship the Divine through their Master, Jesus, and do not suffer from (at least such blatant) attempts to glorify themselves. Their devotion appears more spontaneous and true because of their transcendence of egoity at the heart, rather than just being typically mind-based as so many "non-duality new-agers" appear to be doing, probably in order to justify a life of no-disciplines because that would be seeking! Actual realizers of the truth of non-duality all advocate living a life singularly focused on the Truth and were not caught up in arguments about whether this focus was seeking or not.

Countering the ego or seeking itself, with right disciplines is not necessarily just more seeking. It can be a direct and spontaneous expression of one's love of the Divine and one's understanding of the ego's limitations. I don't know how else most of us (and definitely including me) could even be disciplined except on this happy basis.

Seraphim of Sarov was a great example of this and also was a realized transmitter of Divine Blessing to others. The story of his and Motovilov's encounter is a wonderful example of his humility and also his spiritual transmission of the Holy Spirit to Molovilov - as touched upon in this link:
orthodoxwiki.org...

Do you know of other examples in Christianity where such spiritual transmission of the Holy Spirit is so clearly demonstrated by a realizer? It was probably frowned upon in many Christian circles!

Best to you!

reply to post by bb23108

It makes me wonder why so many Christians are not able to make the confession of receiving the Holy Spirit to the point where their lives are transformed and focused on what Jesus was actually offering. Obviously much of this is due to the fact that the esoteric aspects of the Bible have been overridden with the exoteric institutional versions and interpretations.

Yes that's exactly why. A watering down of the original precepts, teachings, meanings, and transformations. A survey came out a few years back, (I'll see if I can find it to post it to this thread), which said that Christians in the States were no different than non-Christians as far as amounts of sex, porn, drugs, drinking, cheating, lying, stealing, and general debauchery.

It's become a place to go to on Sunday's to "hang out" or a social event based on certain social circles, and that's it (although I refuse to stereo-type as there are genuine Souls seeking God at these places as well). They condemn meditation, going within, the inner journey, etc etc ...and the leaders of these Giant Movements are trained via doctrine, not via direct experience. That's what happened to me, I got the Holy Spirit and a gang of miscallaneous mystical Experiences, and I went to the Elders and PAstors of a bunch of churches, including a Mega church (the Main guy there tours the world, publish author, syndicated radio special) and they were all scratching their heads when I spoke of all these deeper experiences..... so I left.

I even approached a globally published famous theologian who I have access to, who tours the world on speaking engagements, and he was scratching his head. All these Phd's on doctrine, but are blind to the real transformative experiences. It's a case of the blind leading the blind.

And yet, the Trinity is still spoken of, and other esoteric matters - and thus my question as to why there are not more spiritual confessions. I guess it is the age old answer - even if truth is staring one in the face, it often is denied acknowledgement. Your response also answers what I asked you earlier regarding your personal relationship with the Divine, Jesus, and the Spirit, and whether you still relate to Jesus as your Spiritual Master. It seems that you do because you indicate that he is the Way and you are a practitioner of that Way. At least that is my interpretation of your responses.

Best friend, teacher, master, Older brother, Elder, a safe haven, Enlightened Master, etc. All my initial experiences came through following the Teachings of Christ genuinely and Loving others. The Mystical experiences and ego death was completely unexpected. Eventually I had to consult a Monastery and the head Abbott basically says to me, "Welcome to the divine Mysteries, now here's the books you need to further your experiences." Those books being all the one's based on the Mystics/Monks/Hermits/Saints of the tradition who reached/Uncovered/Surrendered into Union w/ God.

Surprisingly though, I have had similar experiences later on when studying other religions. I studied Non-Duality and Zen Koans, and after reading my first Zen Koan, I was shifted into a state of transcending myself and seeing the Ego/Thinker of thoughts as not me (Something that would also happen earlier in the Dark Night via Christian Mysticism) ...and then I dropped into the heart where I was merged with Infinity and Bliss.

Zen is highly compatible w/ Christianity, because it basically says, "Meditation is a science, you are not the ego, there is a deeper root to all of existence, find out yourself through practice if these things are true." SO it's not really religion or doctrine, it's more so, go within and you'll see what's there ...oh and by the way, here's a syllabus of what you'll find along the way so you can check off the sign posts. ALthough the Zen way there can lack Love/Bliss that's why they always discuss "adding" compassion.

I think that adage in Buddhism stating "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." is very misunderstood. It is used as a way to justify the stench of enlightenment - people have some insight into the Truth and they think they "GET IT"! But to then dismiss one's Master, Spiritual Companion, etc., is often the ego wanting to grab the gift and use it for one's own glorification - and sometimes even wanting to become a guru themselves!

This just means kill all illusions, speculations, projections of the mind, because they're not real. Can be applied to Christians as well. Who you think God is, is not God. God him/itself is God, but thoughts are illusions. The Dark Night strips all that away by grace anyway.

continued..........

reply to post by bb23108

All the Christian mystics seem to declare otherwise - they happily worship the Divine through their Master, Jesus, and do not suffer from (at least such blatant) attempts to glorify themselves. Their devotion appears more spontaneous and true because of their transcendence of egoity at the heart, rather than just being typically mind-based as so many "non-duality new-agers" appear to be doing, probably in order to justify a life of no-disciplines because that would be seeking! Actual realizers of the truth of non-duality all advocate living a life singularly focused on the Truth and were not caught up in arguments about whether this focus was seeking or not.

The non-dual path can lead to a very Dry, just-is, Emptiness ISness of the root reality prior to all things, and devoid of Love. Although even then Love comes eventually as well. To me, the Nndual path is just one of the ways "there".

Devotion/Love/Grace/ will also end up there ...the Bliss/Love completely consumes the Ego/I-identity leaving in it's tracks, The Infinite Source and being merged into that.

Not too many will get the "non-dual" stuff because it requires a certain level of intellect, intuition, ripeness. Devotion is so easy that an average Joe can get it. But there are different ways there based on different personalities. I have a friend who's a stock broker and he get's Spiritual Epiphanies and Transcendent ecstacies by reading about and contemplating the size of the Universe, quantum physics, Multi-Verses.... he see's all of reality as gleaming with the Infinite One.

Countering the ego or seeking itself, with right disciplines is not necessarily just more seeking. It can be a direct and spontaneous expression of one's love of the Divine and one's understanding of the ego's limitations. I don't know how else most of us (and definitely including me) could even be disciplined except on this happy basis.

I have a friend who experiences the Source completely through Buddhism and Non-duality. Some days when I see him there are literally divine Orbs around him and a Halo-Like Glow. He just Loves and acknowledges all paths, and I consider the guy more Christ-Like then any other actual Christian I met.

However for me, I like a combo of Devotion, detachment, Being, Surrender/LEtting-Go, Non-dual Stuff, etc. I think Jesus was all the way Non-dual through Devotion ..."I and the Father are One." Can't get more Nondual then that. If you google who else said that they and the Father are One, you'll find a few Sufi's who experienced Union, a bunch of Saints, Mystics, Monks, of all sorts of traditions and that's not a statement one is just going to spew for no reason. A Sufi Saint who said it, got killed for saying it, and he was fine with the getting killed for it part....which goes to show.

Seraphim of Sarov was a great example of this and also was a realized transmitter of Divine Blessing to others. The story of his and Motovilov's encounter is a wonderful example of his humility and also his spiritual transmission of the Holy Spirit to Molovilov - as touched upon in this link: orthodoxwiki.org...

Seraphim was AWESOME!!!!! I believe this is the same Saint who was sitting next to a student, and all of a sudden his whole face lit up with Divine light so much so, he illuminated everything around them, just from the Love of God he had.

I have the whole Philokalia and many of the Desert and Saint writings. Personal Practice is vital thought, to temper with what's read.

Do you know of other examples in Christianity where such spiritual transmission of the Holy Spirit is so clearly demonstrated by a realizer? It was probably frowned upon in many Christian circles! Best to you!

Yea there's tons of stories of actual levitations while in bless, various miracles, Bi-location.

Ok I got a cool thing about Bi-Location to add that has to do with Quantum Physics..... I believe science has found God, but they merely call it the Wave Collapse function or the Quantum state. I'll get to that in a later post.
Check this out:
Christian Mysticism Comparitve Experiences/Practices

Other than that, Meister Eckhart was big and sounded very Non-dual like, really if you get a chance check out Bernadette Roberts ...she's a modern day Saint in Union w/ God. All she would do is pray alot in her deepest depths, and eventually she dropped into the heart and into Union, permanently, never to come back from it again.

The Cloud of Unknowing is huge too. Basically the part of you that does not know anything, is the real you, so rest as that. The parts that knows, is ego.

Sooo many more, but we'll leave off at that

Great responses man, THANKS!

Much for me to consider here still, but one thing I wanted to ask right away, before having to get back to work, is this part:

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by bb23108

 

Do you know of other examples in Christianity where such spiritual transmission of the Holy Spirit is so clearly demonstrated by a realizer? It was probably frowned upon in many Christian circles! Best to you!

Yea there's tons of stories of actual levitations while in bless, various miracles, Bi-location.

Those experiences would also be interesting study, but I am actually wondering if you know of other examples in Christian Mysticism of spiritual transmitters of the Holy Spirit, besides Jesus, and in my understanding, also Seraphim.

I don't mean people who passively made others more in tune with the Divine because of their own depth, but realizers who actually specifically Transmitted the Spirit Blessing to others - as Jesus clearly did - and also Seraphim, at least in some writings that is what is indicated.

reply to post by bb23108

I don't mean people who passively made others more in tune with the Divine because of their own depth, but realizers who actually specifically Transmitted the Spirit Blessing to others - as Jesus clearly did - and also Seraphim, at least in some writings that is what is indicated.

Yeah that's a rough one, I'd have to go back through alot of books or do some more research on that one. I figured the Transmitter's were/are a rarity. Many of the testimonies of the Enlightened One's that I've read, the Spirit came to them in solitude at it's own time/discretion .....so off the top of the head, can't name too many.

Will look into it.