What Allah says to Christians

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You don't get it.
Stephen was questioning the very idea of man making a "dwelling place" for God.... which is what the tabernacle was. Stephen was speaking to the Israelite priesthood and referred to their common "ancestors" when he spoke of the tabernacle of the wilderness being of Molech.


“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:
“‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
Has not my hand made all these things?’

- Acts 7:48-50



He seems to be saying God never needed a tabernacle... and that the one that they built during their journey in the wilderness was for Molech and the star god.

Follow this timeline:

You mean YOUR customized timeline in which you snuck in your idea of 2 tents being in the wilderness?

You would sound a whole lot more credible if you backed up your claim about a second tent dedicated to Moloch in the wilderness, with a verse.... which I originally asked for. You have not been able to because the Bible says nothing of a tent being built for Moloch in the wilderness.

8. The tabernacle at Shiloh became dedicated to Moloch after the departure of the ark.

Again, you are writing your own stories. There is no verse that says that the tabernacle at Shiloh was dedicated to Molek. The tabernacle was at Shiloh was dedicated to God (as mentioned in the OT) at one point.

In addition to the one in Acts 7, here are all the references to Moloch in the Bible.

"'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
-Leviticus 18:21

“Say to the Israelites: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death. The members of the community are to stone him. 3 I myself will set my face against him and will cut him off from his people; for by sacrificing his children to Molek, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the members of the community close their eyes when that man sacrifices one of his children to Molek and if they fail to put him to death, 5 I myself will set my face against him and his family and will cut them off from their people together with all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molek.
-Leviticus 20:2–5

He desecrated Topheth, which was in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, so no one could use it to sacrifice their son or daughter in the fire to Molek.
-2 Kings 23:10

They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded - nor did it enter my mind -that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.
-Jeremiah 32:35


There is nothing about a second tent in the wilderness that was dedicated to Molek.

There were two tabernacles.

From your own link... your source quotes Psalm 78:60 referring to the tent of Shiloh to make the case that there was a second tabernacle dedicated to Molek. But your source missed the mention of a third tabernacle... that of Josephs.

"Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph"

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


They didn't begin worshipping Moloch in the tabernacle until after the ark and the Lord's Presence with it was removed and taken to Philistia. It had turned into a den of idolatry during that time. It's the reason David erected a new tabernacle to house the ark in Jerusalem.

There

Was

Two

Tabernacles.

One at Shiloh in Samaria, and one in Jerusalem.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

ou have not been able to because the Bible says nothing of a tent being built for Moloch in the wilderness.

That would be because the tabernacle built to house the ark was taken over by the idolaters AFTER the ark was removed and captured by the Philistines. The reason David had a new one built in Jerusalem when the ark was reacquired instead of placing it back in it's original tabernacle at Shiloh.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Eating is a lot of fun for me, am I alone on that maybe? Were Jesus' taste buds not resurrected with the rest of Him?

ok, i agree. So we will also get our taste buds, other sensory and body parts in working condition after our resurrecution. Right?
(Hope FF is following this)

Dude ... JESUS said that there was no sex in the afterlife. He said there is no marriage and people 'live like the angels'. NO SEX. NO SEX. NO SEX. It's not there. There is no procreation in heaven and there is no sex. The mundane and earthbound 'pleasures' are gone .. having been replaced by the glories of heaven. That's just the way it is. If you REALLY can't deal with the thought of no orgasims for eternity .. take it up with God when you get there. Maybe He'll reincarnate you or something .... stuff you back in a corporeal body that has sex urges ...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Chriat when speaking about angels said nothing about sex, He said they do not "marry". And if we look at Genesis 6, the Nephalim were the product of angels and women procreating.

Angels can't procreate with women. They are completely spiritual beings. Therefore, the Nephalim were the product of human women and some other worldly organic creatures .. not 'angels'. The peasants of that ancient time period called the other worldly visitors 'angels' because they didn't know better.

When Jesus said that the dead in heaven 'do not marry' and live like the angels he had to be referring to 'no sex' because sex is within marriage in God's perfect law ... and heaven is definately God's realm. So .. no sex in heaven. No one will want to do that anyways. There is no procreation and there are greater glories to be a part of than mundane orgasims.

I get that many guys are rather attached to their ... um ... sexual body functions. But the next world is totally different from this one. Once there .. you won't even think about having sex. You'll be in the presence of God and all that other earthly stuff will be but a distant memory ....

reply to post by FlyersFan

The mundane and earthbound 'pleasures' are gone .. having been replaced by the glories of heaven.

What glories?

I don't really mind not having to chase virgins
just give me a library with every book ever written and every book that wasn't but was needed.
I don't ask much.

Although i do wonder, would we have eyes to read?

Existing as a ball of light is kind of a downer for me.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

That would be because the tabernacle built to house the ark was taken over by the idolaters AFTER the ark was removed and captured by the Philistines.

That is still no reason as to why there is no verse explaining that the tabernacle at Shiloh was later used for Molek worship, as you claim.

However my main point was about Stephen even questions why God would need a tent to dwell in. You did not address that part of my post.

Stephen was questioning the very idea of man making a "dwelling place" for God.... which is what the tabernacle was. Stephen was speaking to the Israelite priesthood and referred to their common "ancestors" when he spoke of the tabernacle of the wilderness being of Molech.


“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:
“‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
Has not my hand made all these things?’

- Acts 7:48-50

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

The mundane and earthbound 'pleasures' are gone .. having been replaced by the glories of heaven.

What glories?

Being in the presence of God is glorious. You won't even think of human sex ...

1 Corinthians 2 - However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him.

Isaiah 65:17 "See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

1 Corinthians 50 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—

And of course, we have Jesus Himself saying that no one will be married. And since God wants sex to stay withing marriage, that means NO SEX.

Existing as a ball of light is kind of a downer for me

Existing in the flesh and blood here is a downer for me.
I'm looking forward tot he freedom that will come from not being
trapped in a body that has lower animal urges and functions,
and that gets sick and decays.

When you are free of this valley of tears on Earth ... you will be happy.
And you'll find that the universe doesn't revolve around the male sex organ
like some here on earth seem to think that it does.
(I'm SOOOOO glad I'm not a guy!!)

Don't worry. Be happy. You'll like it in the next world.
(as long as you behave well enough to make it there)

reply to post by FlyersFan

Angels can't procreate with women. They are completely spiritual beings. Therefore, the Nephalim were the product of human women and some other worldly organic creatures .. not 'angels'. The peasants of that ancient time period called the other worldly visitors 'angels' because they didn't know better.

"Bene ha'Elohim" is the Hebrew term for angels. Genesis 6 says they took women and Nephilim were the result. Demons are the unclean spirits of the dead Nephilim. The offspring of fallen angels and human women.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Don't worry. Be happy. You'll like it in the next world. (as long as you behave well enough to make it there)

I am not demanding virgins anyway, i am more just thinking in "why not?"
Heaven is supposed to be 'Heaven' for everyone right?
And you want it someway and are happy that its that way and so want to go there(motivation)

how will it be motivating for someone who does not like your idea of Heaven?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

That would be because the tabernacle built to house the ark was taken over by the idolaters AFTER the ark was removed and captured by the Philistines.

That is still no reason as to why there is no verse explaining that the tabernacle at Shiloh was later used for Molek worship, as you claim.

However my main point was about Stephen even questions why God would need a tent to dwell in. You did not address that part of my post.

Stephen was questioning the very idea of man making a "dwelling place" for God.... which is what the tabernacle was. Stephen was speaking to the Israelite priesthood and referred to their common "ancestors" when he spoke of the tabernacle of the wilderness being of Molech.


“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:
“‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.
What kind of house will you build for me?
says the Lord.
Or where will my resting place be?
Has not my hand made all these things?’

- Acts 7:48-50

edit on 14-3-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

You're asking a false question. God doesn't "need" to do anything. I could be absurd and ask on the macro "why did God NEED to create the universe?".

God doesn't need anything, God does as He wants/chooses.


So are you still claiming there wasn't two tabernacles? One at Shiloh and David's at Jerusalem?

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Don't worry. Be happy. You'll like it in the next world. (as long as you behave well enough to make it there)

I am not demanding virgins anyway, i am more just thinking in "why not?"
Heaven is supposed to be 'Heaven' for everyone right?
And you want it someway and are happy that its that way and so want to go there(motivation)

how will it be motivating for someone who does not like your idea of Heaven?

I can't see how it would be a heavenly experience for the "virgin". To be perpetually raped for eternity. Secondly, I always thought it would be heaven to be with God, in His kingdom, spending eternity learning everything there is to know from Him.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

"Bene ha'Elohim" is the Hebrew term for angels. Genesis 6 says they took women and Nephilim were the result. Demons are the unclean spirits of the dead Nephilim. The offspring of fallen angels and human women.

Do angels have free will to fall?
If demons are spirits of dead Nephilim, then why are devils and demons the same?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Again .. I don't care what the peasants said ... the species of angels are fully spirit and incorporeal. Therefore they can't procreate with a the human flesh and blood species. Can a dog and a fish make babies? No. The species can't mix. Even more so when one species if flesh and blood and the other is total spirit.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

"Bene ha'Elohim" is the Hebrew term for angels. Genesis 6 says they took women and Nephilim were the result. Demons are the unclean spirits of the dead Nephilim. The offspring of fallen angels and human women.

Do angels have free will to fall?
If demons are spirits of dead Nephilim, then why are devils and demons the same?

Yes, angels have free will to fall.

Devils/demons/unclean spirits are synonyms.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Again .. I don't care what the peasants said ... the species of angels are fully spirit and incorporeal. Therefore they can't procreate with a the human flesh and blood species. Can a dog and a fish make babies? No. The species can't mix. Even more so when one species if flesh and blood and the other is total spirit.

So you just want to rip out Genesis 6 as non-inspired?

Originally posted by logical7
Heaven is supposed to be 'Heaven' for everyone right?
And you want it someway and are happy that its that way and so want to go there(motivation)
how will it be motivating for someone who does not like your idea of Heaven?

My idea of heaven at this point would be to be in a body that isn't sick .. and to be able to drink a freak'n cup of coffee and have a bowl of pasta (neither of which I can do right now). Pretty mundane and earthbound stuff, right?

HOWEVER ... scripture is very clear (I gave the quotes) that heaven is so wonderful that we can't even imagine it. Being with God is the ultimate in motivation. It's not just standing there gawking at Him ... it's being WITH Him. He is our ultimate goal. And the glories of heaven are FAR FAR above orgasims and cups of coffee and bowls of pasta ...

The motivation .. to be with God ... and to be part of the glories of heaven which are so wonderful that we can't even imagine them. All the things of this earth like sex and coffee and pasta will not even enter our heads when we are there.

Heaven isn't sex-organ-centric. And frankly, the Muslim vision of heaven is mundane and would be a HELL for women. I don't want to be 'servicing' men for all eternity.

I want to be with God ... without carnal animal drives ... without being subjugated by men for their carnal pleasures. And that is what God says Heaven will be ... devoid of subjugation .. devoid of carnal animal drives ... full of something so spiritual and so much greater that we can't even begin to imagine it ...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
So you just want to rip out Genesis 6 as non-inspired?

Yep. Pretty much. Genesis is pretty mixed up as it is ...

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
So you just want to rip out Genesis 6 as non-inspired?

Yep. Pretty much. Genesis is pretty mixed up as it is ...

Even though Jesus affirmed it?

Was Jesus just not as enlightened as you or modern scholarship?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I can't see how it would be a heavenly experience for the "virgin". To be perpetually raped for eternity.

thats rude!!!
I hope you can control yourself better next time.

I always thought it would be
heaven to be with God, in His
kingdom, spending eternity learning everything there is to know from Him.

yes i agree to that, but as i remember, you want food in heaven right?
How is food any different from sex? Both ulimately give a sense of satisfaction.
I think its the Church that made sex into a 'dirty' thing and bad for spirituality because of the Church's bias and dislike towards women. Church even argued if woman had a soul and so will she be in heaven at all!!
If you think sex as carnal then so is hunger.