What Allah says to Christians

reply to post by FlyersFan

That means there will be death in heaven. Plants will have to die. Death is the opposite of life ... and heaven is supposed to be about life.

not necessary, Jesus pbuh turned water to wine din't he?
And wine is made from fruits of the trees/plants and not from whole plants. right?

So where are people going to poop
and pee in heaven?
If they are eating and drinking, then
they have to poop and pee.

The heavenly body and heavenly food would not be the same as here, no undigestable parts to excrete.
We will also not get old, now explain that if we think about it by observing bodies here.
Heavenly food wouldn't also have any toxins that need to be excreted neither free radicals would be made in the body that lead to aging, cancer etc.
We would be a new creation just the soul would be the same.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Yep ... give Islamic Heaven a try ... total carnal gluttony. Anyone with human addictions ... sex, food, alcohol, ... they'd love it.

its actually great if it helps prevent people seeking all of that here and destroying their afterlife chasing these carnal pleasures all their life, don't you agree?

If anyone doesn't drink because he/she wants a better one in Heaven then there would be less evil on earth, less accidents, less livers damaged. No?

The same applies to sex, less teenage pregnancies, less STDs etc

For food, less obesity, less obesity related diseases.

If Heaven turns out islamic then you shrug and enjoy the pasta,

if not, you have the last laugh anyways

so i guess you should not find it wrong, maybe even promote it.

Its actually a cunning way to make the world better by controlling the carnal urges HERE by promising them UP THERE.

reply to post by FlyersFan

So where are people going to poop and pee in heaven?
If they are eating and drinking, then they have to poop and pee.
So there will be plumbers in heaven?
And factories to make bathroom fixtures?
And sewage treatment plants?
And air pollution from the factories?

I read somewhere that humans in paradise will excrete through sweet smelling sweat.
So there would be no plumbers, bathroom fixtures and sewage treatment plants.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I can't see how it would be a heavenly experience for the "virgin". To be perpetually raped for eternity.

Sex between a consenting couple is not "rape".
If that were so, then a Christian husband who has sex with his Christian wife, is actually raping her.

You were probably thought that only Christians have "sex" with their wives and everybody else "rapes" their wives. Pathetic, to say the least.

reply to post by logical7

I suggest you try for Islamic Heaven
there would be drinks and yet no sick feeling after having too many.

But the catch is, NO drinks HERE!!
However God can forgive it ofcourse. The basic idea is to obey God and the command is to avoid intoxicants.

hahaha! no deal brother...

I have no need of a religion...

By the way, there is no Islamic heaven, or Christian heaven... hindu, or gnostic heaven... We all go back to where we came from... without exception.

The afterlife is what it is.... there are beliefs about the place... and then there is what exists

reply to post by Akragon

By the way, there is no Islamic heaven, or Christian heaven... hindu, or gnostic heaven... We all go back to where we came from... without exception.

Indeed! One God, one Heaven, i just used 'islamic' Heaven as one 'idea' of Heaven.

The afterlife is what it is.... there are
beliefs about the place... and then
there is what exists

yes there is 'what exists' but nobody knows.

If an idea of Heaven makes someone a better person then nobody has the right to judge it.

If it has to be judged then judge the fruits of that idea in the world.
Interestingly, a carnal idea of Heaven is better to impove the world.

"let me eat as much before i meet my Lord as there's no food there" is going to be bad for health.
There are sure people like that, not everyone is equally spiritual.

However a carnal Heaven motivates all to be better and requires much more self control to resist things that are seen in hope of better but unseen things.

reply to post by logical7


Well said... though I disagree with the "one god" idea... There are many gods... but only one true Father of creation... the "most high" as they call him..

A question though, if you will...

Islam does not allow drinking.... Yet its a fact according to scripture that Jesus drank...

Why does your religion disallow something your prophet clearly has no problem with?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
And it's corroborated in 2 Peter and Jude. Not to mention the LXX says angels.

Because Peter and Jude bought into it. It was their religious beliefs and they didn't understand that two totally different species, from two totally different dimensions of reality, can't procreate. A pure spirit can't make babies with an organic human. They just can't.

Saying that Old Testament teachings must be true because Peter says so is no different than having Muslims today say that what Muhammad said is true, so it must be true. Peter is just repeating what he has been told. Same with todays Muslims just repeating what they've been told. It doesn't mean they are correct.

Oh .. I have no idea what LXX is. You'll have to spell out that shorthand ...

The LXX is the Septuagint. The Greek rendering of the Tenackh. It's named after the 70 Hebrew scholars who took 15 years to translate the Tenackh into Greek three centuries before Christ was born. It's a big help for scholars because it takes advantage of the extreme precision of the Greek language.

So what you're arguing is that the story is false, because you can't be arguing that the claim of Genesis 6 says something other than angels took human wives and the Nephilim (the fallen ones) were the offspring.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
There will be wine in heaven.

That means there will be death in heaven. Plants will have to die.
Death is the opposite of life ... and heaven is supposed to be about life.

So where are people going to poop and pee in heaven?
If they are eating and drinking, then they have to poop and pee.
So there will be plumbers in heaven?
And factories to make bathroom fixtures?
And sewage treatment plants?
And air pollution from the factories?

See where this is going?
That kind of heaven doesn't make much sense ... does it?

Jesus said He wouldn't drink again of the fruit of the vine until we were all together in Heaven.

There will be wine there, Jesus said there would. He would know, it's His Kingdom and He came from there.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


heh... glad someone pointed it out...

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I can't see how it would be a heavenly experience for the "virgin". To be perpetually raped for eternity.

Sex between a consenting couple is not "rape".
If that were so, then a Christian husband who has sex with his Christian wife, is actually raping her.

You were probably thought that only Christians have "sex" with their wives and everybody else "rapes" their wives. Pathetic, to say the least.

edit on 15-3-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

No. I've lived in a world where a woman gets jealous if her husband talks to another woman. I cant fathom how she would enjoy sharing him with 71 other women.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

heh... glad someone pointed it out...

I don't understand the argument about grapes and fermentation.

For pete sake the Man turned water into wine for His first miracle.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I've been following this topic for a few pages, but I think I missed that argument

Little help?

I think its pretty obvious that Jesus drank... and I do believe feasts in heaven are spoken about as well...

Unfortunately im off to work in a few so I don't have time to go digging

reply to post by Akragon


You're right on both accounts. The Bible speaks of both in heaven.

Be safe my man.

reply to post by Akragon

I've been following this topic for a few pages, but I think I missed that argument Little help?

Here, FF was talking about problem of making wine in Heaven.
"That means there will be death in
heaven. Plants will have to die. Death is
the opposite of life ... and heaven is
supposed to be about life."

and i had replied,
"not necessary, Jesus pbuh turned
water to wine din't he?
And wine is made from fruits of the
trees/plants and not from whole
plants. right?"

reply to post by Akragon

Well said... though I disagree with the "one god" idea... There are many gods... but only one true Father of creation... the "most high" as they call him..

it all depends on how much importance you put to the word 'god'
do you think these gods can do anything against the Will of The Creator?
There are angels incharge of nature like angel of rain etc
but again the same question, will they be able to do anything without The Creator's permission.
It does depend on what you believe in, a living, aware Creator who is actively incharge or a Creator who is dead for all practical purposes.

A question though, if you will... Islam does not allow drinking.... Yet its
a fact according to scripture that Jesus
drank... Why does your religion disallow
something your prophet clearly has
no problem with?

The only time that i know when Jesus pbuh drank was at the last supper.
The Qur'an has a Surah named 'Table Spread' you may call it feast/supper.

[5:112] And when I inspired the
disciples of Jesus to believe in Me and
in My Messenger, they said, ‘We believe
and bear Thou witness that we have
submitted.’
[5:113] When the disciples said, ‘O
Jesus, son of Mary, is thy Lord able to
send down to us a table spread with
food from heaven?’ he said, ‘Fear
Allah, if you are believers.’
[5:114] They said, ‘We desire that we
may eat of it, and that our hearts be at
rest and that we may know that thou
hast spoken truth to us, and that we
may be witnesses thereto.’
[5:115] Said Jesus, son of Mary, ‘O
Allah, our Lord, send down to us a
table from heaven spread with food
that it may be to us a festival, to the
first of us and to the last of us, and a
Sign from Thee; and provide sustenance for us, for Thou art the
Best of sustainers.’
[5:116] Allah said, ‘Surely, I will send it
down to you, but whosoever of you
disbelieves afterwards — I will surely
punish them with a punishment
wherewith I will not punish any other
of the peoples.’

so the wine came from Heaven.

The punishment is mentioned because disbelieving after such a 'sign' is sent, is too rude and very stupid. The clearer the sign that God exists, the harsher the punishment to still turn to disbelief.

reply to post by logical7

it all depends on how much importance you put to the word 'god'
do you think these gods can do anything against the Will of The Creator?
There are angels incharge of nature like angel of rain etc

I can't give you that answer... I've had no experiences with spiritual entities...

So I know notihng of them except that which has been written about them...

but again the same question, will they be able to do anything without The Creator's permission.
It does depend on what you believe in, a living, aware Creator who is actively incharge or a Creator who is dead for all practical purposes.

Perhaps a creator who lets things happen as they "will"... Since all return to him... all shall also be held accountable for their actions, or lack there of...

The only time that i know when Jesus pbuh drank was at the last supper.

Matthew 11:19
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Luke 7:34
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

Winebibbler

A habitual drinker of wine...

The Qur'an has a Surah named 'Table Spread' you may call it feast/supper.

[5:112] And when I inspired the
disciples of Jesus to believe in Me and
in My Messenger, they said, ‘We believe
and bear Thou witness that we have
submitted.’
[5:113] When the disciples said, ‘O
Jesus, son of Mary, is thy Lord able to
send down to us a table spread with
food from heaven?’ he said, ‘Fear
Allah, if you are believers.’
[5:114] They said, ‘We desire that we
may eat of it, and that our hearts be at
rest and that we may know that thou
hast spoken truth to us, and that we
may be witnesses thereto.’
[5:115] Said Jesus, son of Mary, ‘O
Allah, our Lord, send down to us a
table from heaven spread with food
that it may be to us a festival, to the
first of us and to the last of us, and a
Sign from Thee; and provide sustenance for us, for Thou art the
Best of sustainers.’
[5:116] Allah said, ‘Surely, I will send it
down to you, but whosoever of you
disbelieves afterwards — I will surely
punish them with a punishment
wherewith I will not punish any other
of the peoples.’

so the wine came from Heaven.

The punishment is mentioned because disbelieving after such a 'sign' is sent, is too rude and very stupid. The clearer the sign that God exists, the harsher the punishment to still turn to disbelief.

Interesting... sounds very OT...

Though an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas...

His disciples and followers of him were given two fish and five loaves of bread that fed 5000 people according to scripture...

Are you saying they needed another sign?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I read somewhere that humans in paradise will excrete through sweet smelling sweat.

oh man that's wild. Someone has a good imagination.


Look ... if you all (everyone, not just skorpion) want to think that heaven is one big carnal orgy for the senses ... go ahead. I think it's much more spiritual than that. That once we are with God, any carnal desires will be like shadows and forgotten.

But hey ... we'll find out when we are dead.


Hey .... I just dont' see people eating and drinking because that means poop'n and pee'n .. and that means having to have people work in factories to make plumbing and bathroom fixtures .. and that means air pollution ... and that means it won't be heaven but just another yukky Earthlike situation. And working in a plumbing factory isn't exactly my idea of 'heaven' .. ya' know??

Originally posted by Akragon
. I've had no experiences with spiritual entities...

Oh man .. I could tell you a few stories!! Spiritual entities ... from ghosts of the dead .. to demons .. to the divine. I've had encounters with them all. We can do that via U2U if you like.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Jesus said He wouldn't drink again of the fruit of the vine until we were all together in Heaven. There will be wine there, Jesus said there would. He would know, it's His Kingdom and He came from there.

Yes there is that ... isn't there. Was he saying that there would be wine in the afterlife or was he telling them that they would be together again and happy and rejoicing and that the wine was just symbolic of that? I don't know.

If you are going to take everything Christ said as literal, then John 6 means that you should be Catholic ... eating His Body and drinking His Blood .. otherwise you will not have life within you.

As I said .. I guess we'll see when we are dead if there is eating and drinking. The HUMAN part of me just wants to feel better and be able to drink a cup of coffee and eat a bowl of pasta again. (I haven't been able to do that in 3 years due to my autoimmune disease). But my soul tells me that heaven will be much more than coffee and pasta and sex ... and that being with God will make me forget all those carnal pleasures ...

Guess we'll find out ...
and the way the world is going, probably sooner rather than later.