What Allah says to Christians

reply to post by FlyersFan

oh man that's wild. Someone has a good imagination.

Look ... if you all (everyone, not just skorpion) want to think that heaven is one big carnal orgy for the senses ... go ahead. I think it's much more spiritual than that. That once we are with God, any carnal desires will be like shadows and forgotten.

Like Akragon pointed out... there are records of feasting in the kingdom of heaven.


I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
-Matthew 8:11


So... what do you suppose will happen after the meal from the feast is digested?
Sweet smelling sweat
or
a trip to the toilet... meaning the plumbing / bathroom fixture factories?


Also, theres this...

On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
-Revelations 22:2


So what exactly are the crops of fruit for? Food fights?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

I don't buy into Revelation being literal in any way.
And a lot of the early church agrees with me.
It wasn't 'accepted' by the church at large until the 500's.
Side note for protestants ... For a while Martin Luther totally rejected Revelation.

Like I said .. if you want to look forward to eating fruit from fruit trees and 'pooping' sweet smelling sweat .. go ahead. I'm looking forward to something much more spiritual. Either way .. if we get there, we are supposed to be totally happy.

reply to post by FlyersFan

I don't buy into Revelation being literal in any way.

Ok, I'll make a mental note of that...

What about the feast which Jesus talked about in Revelations 8:11

reply to post by Akragon

I can't give you that answer... I've had no experiences with spiritual entities... So I know notihng of them except that which has been written about them...

here's a thought experiment from Qur'an for you.

Surah 23:
78. It is He, Who has created for you (the sense of) hearing (ears), sight
(eyes), and hearts (understanding).
Little thanks you give. 79. And it is He Who has created you on the earth, and to Him you shall be
gathered back. 80. And it is He Who gives life and causes death, and His is the alternation
of night and day. Will you not then
understand? 81. Nay, but they say the like of what the men of old said. 82. They said: "When we are dead and have become dust and bones, shall we
be resurrected indeed? 83. "Verily, this we have been promised, we and our fathers before
(us)! This is only the tales of the
ancients!" 84. Say: "Whose is the earth and whosoever is therein? If you know!" 85. They will say: "It is Allah's!" Say: "Will you not then remember?" 86. Say: "Who is (the) Lord of the seven heavens, and (the) Lord of the
Great Throne?" 87. They will say: "Allah." Say: "Will you not then fear Allah (believe in His
Oneness, obey Him, believe in the
Resurrection and Recompense for
each and every good or bad deed)." 88. Say "In Whose Hand is the sovereignty of everything (i.e.
treasures of each and everything)?
And He protects (all), while against
Whom there is no protector, (i.e. if
Allah saves anyone none can punish
or harm him, and if Allah punishes or harms anyone none can save him), if
you know." [Tafsir Al-Qurtubi, Vol. 12,
Page 145] 89. They will say: "(All that belongs) to Allah." Say: "How then are you
deceived and turn away from the
truth?" 90. Nay, but We have brought them the truth (Islamic Monotheism), and
verily, they (disbelievers) are liars. 91. No son (or offspring or children) did Allah beget, nor is there any ilah
(god) along with Him; (if there had
been many gods), behold, each god
would have taken away what he had
created, and some would have tried to
overcome others! Glorified be Allah above all that they attribute to Him! 92. All-Knower of the unseen and the seen! Exalted be He over all that they
associate as partners to Him!

reply to post by Akragon

Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. Luke 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! Winebibbler A habitual drinker of wine...

i guess, any drink from the vine was called wine, alcoholic or not.
And its 'they' who called him winebibbler. 'they' also called him posessed by demon, a blasphemer and many other accusations dint they?
Are any of them true?

reply to post by Akragon

Though an evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas... His disciples and followers of him were given two fish and five loaves of bread that fed 5000 people according to scripture... Are you saying they needed another sign?

He gave only one sign(Jonas')(before it happened) to the unbelieving jews.

He did many miracles for sure.

The sign of last supper is by God and for the apostles and those who believe.
I don't get what you mean. The disciples were not really convinced even after he feed 5000 were they?

Mark 6
44 The number of the men who had eaten was five thousand. 45 Immediately Jesus made his disciples get into the boat and go on
ahead of him to Bethsaida, while he
dismissed the crowd. 46 After leaving them, he went up on a mountainside
to pray. 47 Later that night, the boat was in the middle of the lake, and he was alone
on land. 48 He saw the disciples straining at the oars, because the wind
was against them. Shortly before
dawn he went out to them, walking
on the lake. He was about to pass by
them, 49 but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he
was a ghost. They cried out, 50 because they all saw him and were terrified. Immediately he spoke to them and
said, “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be
afraid.” 51 Then he climbed into the boat with them, and the wind died
down. They were completely amazed, 52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were
hardened.

reply to post by logical7

here's a thought experiment from Qur'an for you.

I don't see what you're getting at brother...

if there had
been many gods), behold, each god
would have taken away what he had
created, and some would have tried to
overcome others!

There are many gods... and one of them took it upon himself to glorify himself as the Father of Creation... You can read about this so called God in the Old testament.

i guess, any drink from the vine was called wine, alcoholic or not.

I don't believe there is any mention of Grape juice in any scripture... They drank wine...

I might be wrong... but I think im right

And its 'they' who called him winebibbler. 'they' also called him posessed by demon, a blasphemer and many other accusations dint they?
Are any of them true?

This is true... but through scripture you can find out which of these accusations are true...

IF they called him a winebibbler AND a drunkard... It is at the very least evidence that he drank with people... Or else it would have not been recorded... now whether or not he actually got intoxicated... that is speculation.

He wasn't possessed by a demon, for how can Satan cast out satan? A kingdom divided can not stand...

According to Judaic scripture he was a blasphemer... which was one of the reasons he was executed... Though Judaic scripture worships the so called "god" of the OT... which was a false God either way...

NOT his Father

He gave only one sign(Jonas')(before it happened) to the unbelieving jews.

He didn't give any sign at that point... he only told of the sign these people would be given. They asked for a sign so they could believe... He said "an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign"... that was a general statement, which actually could even be applied in this day.

The sign of last supper is by God and for the apostles and those who believe.
I don't get what you mean. The disciples were not really convinced even after he feed 5000 were they?

Actually no they weren't... It was only after he was resurrected that they truly believed he was who he said he was...

look...

19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

The point I was trying to make is that the scripture from your book is not recorded in anything from the bible or gnostic scripture... and since the Qur'an wasn't written until 600 years after the life of Jesus... that passage was likely fabricated.

Further more, I've noticed a theme that seems to echo through out the passages you've given... that being Fear... That is a theme that the OT God loved to promote...

reply to post by Akragon

There are many gods... and one of them took it upon himself to glorify himself as the Father of Creation... You can read about this so called God in the Old testament.

what book/testament told you about many gods?
I know historically humans 'worshipped' many gods, but its not the same as those gods really being gods among the One God who seeked all glory for Himself!!!
How you give God so low Human qualilities?
Humans have a tendancy to have tangible things, to make ideas tangible and that is the origin of idols, saint worship etc. A more evolved idea is God incarnate, a personal god!

I don't believe there is any mention of
Grape juice in any scripture... They
drank wine... I might be wrong... but I think im right

i think the scripture is very much influenced by location/place and thoughts of the writer.
In OT Lot pbuh tells sodomy is bad and sodom gets destroyed for it and then he is shown to be forced drunk and commit incest!
Noah pbuh gets drunk and his 'shame' gets revealed and he curses his son who made fun of that and the curse is upon all innocent descendants too! Seems a convenient story to validate racism by a self righteous/superior/chosen race.

Interestingly drinking was very common during the time of prophet Muhammad pbuh and continued till a revealed verse forbade it and that was the end of drinking.
Now why would someone make it harder for followers and make new converts more hesitant to come to a stricter religion (you also passed the offer din't you? ) if the objective was more numbers/quantity?
So it was never quantity rather quality and that doesn't seem to be fitting to the desires of a man made religion.
Look at paul, he says "i am a jew to a jew and gentile to a gentile" so his aim is to get converts by hook or by crook!

Btw drinking or no drinking is not a test for the right way/Real God.

According to Judaic scripture he was a
blasphemer... which was one of the
reasons he was executed... Though
Judaic scripture worships the so called
"god" of the OT... which was a false
God either way... NOT his Father

he actually never blasphemed, he let the accusers hear/misunderstand what they wanted to hear.
Your saying that Jesus pbuh din't worship the One God in OT is confusing. He quoted from OT, he even asked for a colt and rode it into Jeruselem to fulfil an OT prophecy, many times he said "its written" and you'l find it written in OT.

Yes God is very much misrepresented in OT but thats the same One God of Jesus pbuh and of muslims.
The better explanation is simply that OT is corrupted, a divine revealation but mixed with human words/changes/additions etc over time.

- with all respect for Logical7,
i think im not that interested what allah has to say to christians.

as i found, allah is the same as Teshub, the storm-god,
aka Enbilulu, the sumerian stormgod,
aka Ninurta, which is Saturn

yet i wish you a friendly day

..its a very strange thing, ' belief '
[ even those who think they believe in 'nothing ', believe ]

yet there s some bizarre 'logic ' in the world of deities that is presented to us
if one knows that 99% of the presented deities are from the dark side
just having changed their masks constantly

but often, parts of names, or the deities attribues, remained unchanged

for example vishnu
who loves graveyards, is often covered with ash from the dead,
and wears a necklace of beads
... the same attributes as the egyptian Anubis

or ghanesha
- potbelly
is the same as the former moabite Chemesh
the children sacrifice one
ghanesha was ' suddenly introduced in india 700AD '
well not so sudden: he simply moved there from moab

...likewise ' yhwh '
which is a false contraction of Gods name, yah = ea = enki

and allah
was al-la-hu

'hu ' being ' the authoritative command '
'la ' being ' earth, dust '
so the name allahu would be a Spell of utterance,
where the soul declares [ when saying that name ] that she chains herself to the dust of the earth

and indeed, allah is a deity that once created the world
but since, has no direct affilation with it no more

the soul who declares [ utters ] that she is chained to this world,
will not find Heaven
but after the physical death
...which may be too late, by then

that is the goal of many religions
that have been invented and presented by the Dark side.

reply to post by Akragon

He didn't give any sign at that point... he only told of the sign these people would be given. They asked for a sign so they could believe... He said "an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign"... that was a general statement, which actually could even be applied in this day.

yes, he fulfilled it later by remaining in the belly of earth ALIVE

and yes he disapproved of evil and adulterous behaviour.
Which right now is only disapproved and dealt strictly by muslims, in secular law adultery is fine just like it was with roman law during his time.

Actually no they weren't... It was only
after he was resurrected that they truly
believed he was who he said he was... look... 19 Jesus answered and said unto
them, Destroy this temple, and in three
days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six
years was this temple in building, and
wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his
body. 22 When therefore he was risen from
the dead, his disciples remembered
that he had said this unto them; and
they believed the scripture, and the
word which Jesus had said.

look at this..

Mark 14
55 And the chief priests and all the council sought for witness against
Jesus to put him to death; and found
none.
56 For many bare false witness against him, but their witness agreed not
together.
57 And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,
58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands,
and within three days I will build
another made without hands.
59 But neither so did their witness agree together.

if i have to choose which gospel is more credible, i'l go for Mark. its not even clear who wrote John.

The point I was trying to make is that
the scripture from your book is not
recorded in anything from the bible or
gnostic scripture... and since the
Qur'an wasn't written until 600 years
after the life of Jesus... that passage was likely fabricated.

it would be the same as saying whatever Jesus pbuh taught is fabricated as there is no record of it in any earlier texts/writings.
he said he is speaking what his Father reaveals to him and anyone who recieves(accepts/obeys) him doesn't recieve him but recieves the Father in Heaven.
So can't the Father in Heaven appoint another spokesperson? Jesus pbuh wasn't the 1st and who said he was the last? Paul?
Jesus pbuh said, the prince of the world is coming, the advocate, he will teach people all things(manners, laws etc) i don't think Holy Spirit taught christians much after reading about dark ages, witch hunts, crusades, conquesta, colonisation and now occupations.

Further more, I've noticed a theme that
seems to echo through out the
passages you've given... that being
Fear... That is a theme that the OT God
loved to promote...

this is the start of the Surah i gave

1. Successful indeed are the believers. 2. Those who offer their Salat (prayers) with all solemnity and full
submissiveness. 3. And those who turn away from Al- Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk,
falsehood, and all that Allah has
forbidden). 4. And those who pay the Zakat . 5. And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual
acts) 6. Except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right
hands possess, for then, they are free
from blame; 7. But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors; 8. Those who are faithfully true to their Amanat (all the duties which Allah has
ordained, honesty, moral
responsibility and trusts etc.) and to
their covenants; 9. And those who strictly guard their (five compulsory congregational)
Salawat (prayers) (at their fixed stated
hours). 10. These are indeed the inheritors. 11. Who shall inherit the Firdaus (Paradise). They shall dwell therein
forever.

which part looks like not meant to make the believer a better person.

And whats wrong in fearing God/being conscious of God?
I should fear of not doing injustice to anyone as my God is watching me, and what bigger injustice to thank someone else(gods) when its God who is the Creator and Sustainer?

Its odd to believe in a pampering Father who loves the children so much that He doesnt mind them killing each other and loves the killer and the killed equally!!
Who doesn't stop them by any means be it a bit of fear so that they behave better.

Everyone makes an idea of God according to his/her own understanding.
God himself says, "I am to my believer/slave as he/she thinks I am"

i guess you disregard any idea of God that doesn't fit your own understanding.
Not everyone is the same and the Creator knows it too well. Some may be good for a reward, some to avoid punishment and some to just meet God ultimately and they find punishment and reward a bit shallow.

None is superior in the eyes of God except by being better/doing more good.

reply to post by Lone12

and allah was al-la-hu 'hu ' being ' the authoritative command ' 'la ' being ' earth, dust '

what language are you using?

What does HaHaHaHa mean in that language?

Are you a christian?
If yes then tell me how unique is the idea of your true God? And does that idea match with pagan gods of the old.

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by Lone12

 

and allah was al-la-hu 'hu ' being ' the authoritative command ' 'la ' being ' earth, dust '

what language are you using?

What does HaHaHaHa mean in that language?

Are you a christian?
If yes then tell me how unique is the idea of your true God? And does that idea match with pagan gods of the old.

- im sorry, i should ve said also that the Breathe of a soul is incredible important.
and that he is either blessing or cursing, with every word he speaks
...and that is why the egyptian pantheon, the most ancient evil pantheon
[ from which most other deities are but extracted of ]
is a master in playing with Words and tones,
that is the real Sorcery: to put a Spell onto souls, by that souls own use of words.

"Hu " was the authoritative Command, the Spoken Word, according to that pantheon,
[ but after she had stolen that command of the Word from God ]
hence a name like dje-hu-ti , Thoth,
who was the Scribe
meaning: the inventor of that sorcery with words

so, a number of tones have much effect in the spiritual world,
you know "AUM ", the mantra
or SIA , a corruption of 'sight '
or EE , corruption of ' illusion '
or BA soul
KA spirit of man
LA = matter
etc

for example, ' kaa'ba " is then the soul spirit which is the Cube
and the Cube means 'consciousness'
but is Thoths consciousness

reply to post by Lone12


I am sorry, i don't understand you. Are you an egyptologist or just an enthusiast.
People can quickly turn their little and mostly incomplete knowledge into disproving how 'other' religions are from darkness and their's is light itself.

You also dint yet answer me about whats your religion and does it have any egyptian/pagan roots or similarities.

reply to post by FlyersFan

You don't like it? Take it up with Jesus. He said it ... people will not be married and they will live like the angels ... so no sex. Sex is rather mundane and worldly compared to the glories of the afterlife. Don't worry about it. You won't miss sex at all. That's earthbound. Think etherial ... greater glories ... eye has not seen and ear has not heard what God has ready for those who love Him.

"But he urged them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.”
—Genesis 19:3-5, RSV

Oh gee, wait a minute, what Lot cooked for them! So they ate; now why would the men of Sodom want sex with them? Maybe common practise in those days. Angels were aliens/humans with "supernatural" powers able to destroy cities, and hungry. I mean its calory burning work this destruction in the OT. Lets not get into the Nephilim in the OT either hey?

reply to post by Murgatroid

Religion is being used as a major tool of the Illuminati agenda.

Couldnt agree more, same could be said of Jesus being transformed into a trinity at the Council of Nicae, some 300 years later, the Roman Empire transformed into a new Theology, power still in the hands of Rome.

reply to post by Murgatroid


"Bottom lie: Religion is simply Satan masquerading as Jesus.

He is a counterfeiter."

Bottom lie all religion/written works/temples/doctrines further alienate man from the creator, including your jesus. Why the need for satan. You do realize that satan is a xtian invention right?

reply to post by TheConstruKctionofLight


Thats one thing they all agree on though, Satan comes from the West not the ME. Its part of the reason why I don't understand all the hatred towards Muslims. We will be working together when it comes down to it.

The heavenly body and heavenly food would not be the same as here, no undigestable parts to excrete. We will also not get old, now explain that if we think about it by observing bodies here. Heavenly food wouldn't also have any toxins that need to be excreted neither free radicals would be made in the body that lead to aging, cancer etc. We would be a new creation just the soul would be the same.

reply to post by logical7


See this is where it gets ridiculous. Perhaps the prophets were trying to convey the spiritual nourishment one gets in the afterlife is better than food. I can see all sorts of logical inconsistencies with what you posted above.

So tell me of their is no aging in heaven due to non existence of free radicals, are we resurrected as babies? are we resurrected as a 1 day old zygote are we resurrected in the body at the time of death ie 60 70 or 80?
I tend to ascribe to the view that the heaven or hell you receive is what you wish for in this life. But then again my perspective is that we are all in hell right now seperated from the true Creator

reply to post by logical7

However a carnal Heaven motivates all to be better and requires much more self control to resist things that are seen in hope of better but unseen things.

That as deceptive as the christian preachers who collect the tithes, spending it all on their latest gadgets whilst promoting self denial to their sleeping followers in the hope of everlasting life and bliss in the afterlife...sheesh!
Carnal Snarnel...didnt Jehovah give Adam & Eve the tree of life to eat from...and the all the fruits and animals of the earth, but hang on he left the tree of knowledge of good and evil in paradise,
hence setting them up for the fall.
hence needing the xtian christ who was three in one one in three from the beginning.
hence a tribal mountain god called JHWH has conned all of the abrahamaic faiths.
hence I could go on forever about where heaven and hell is and you probably wouldnt like the answer