People have been brainwashed to believe that socialism is evil...

reply to post by beezzer


I will give you credit for being honest. Callous, but honest.

A system that could benefit us all would not necessarily mean the end of individual needs or wants. Even marxism doesn't disregard individual needs.

You're just really misinformed (or uninformed) about this subject. I encourage you to read more about this stuff. Read....and then re-read. You have to spend some time with these theories and theorists in order to speak about them in an informed way. And it's for your benefit. You may still disagree, but at least you'll know why you're disagreeing.

Dreamers...everyone of you...dreamers...

"Oh...socialism is the key...we can all have what we need, sit in circles and sing Kuhm bah yah"...

And the Capitalists..."This is the only thing that works...someone must be suppressed so others can rise...we must have workers and those that control them"

They are all bunk...none of them work. They are all broken by one thing...humans.

We have been living a lie...I don't care what side of the line in the sand you are on...they are all broken because of the corruptive nature of us...mankind.

If a person thinks they can get away and not work a day, that means someone else has to work harder for a moment to support them. If a rich bastard thnks he can vacation in the Caribbean and have tons of fun...it means someone is working to pay for that.

There is NO SUCH THING AS A FREE LUNCH!...those that think their family or their station or their intellect earned them something above everyone else is a sh!thead and a detriment to society. We are ALL expected to make our way "by the sweat of our brow"....if you can live and not work for it...you are an abomination and the cause of the problems that all of us now face.

We ALL must work and contribute something...even if it is only a few hours a day...we MUST contribute to the good of the species....if you are not doing that and living large...YOU are the cause of this collapse....if we cannot work as a unit toward a better day...we are doomed.

Originally posted by yadda333
A better question, which I thought I had included, is do we all have the ability to self determine? Of course not, and the reason is because capitalism does not benefit the whole of humanity.

Try saying that to someone that got it good his whole life without even realizing it.
Always saying : you just need to work hard yadda yadda...

Well I would bet the majority of living humans beings worked 2 times as much and never even got half of what they should of deserved.

We are at the end of capitalism, the end of the monopoly game where more and more loser can barely past Go and less and less winners make more and more. Saying you just gotta work hard to become successful is a subjective opinion relying on personal experience.

As far that capitalism goes, tightly regulated capitalism could benefit the majority of humanity for an eternity, if not, free market capitalism is bound to end up like a monopoly game, it's inevitable.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Sadly, socialism has been misrepresented so much that it receives an automatic negative response by the average person.

Socialism, just like capitalism, is not bad in and of itself. How some Men have used socialism for their own benefit is where it all went wrong.

Eventually our governments and societies will return to a socialist system in which the value of the individual trumps the value of the State and personal profit.

Always saying what I am thinking.

reply to post by beezzer

Much of my experience was earned through the military. But my achievements in academia were mine. My achievements in my career were mine.

Of course they are, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

I am currently out of the military and negotiating with different companies both domestic and abroad. You can either use the system or be used by it.

Congrats

The choice is up to the individual.

Increasingly less so.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
"Oh...socialism is the key...we can all have what we need, sit in circles and sing Kuhm bah yah"...

Socialism isn't about not working..

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
We ALL must work and contribute something...even if it is only a few hours a day...we MUST contribute to the good of the species....if you are not doing that and living large...YOU are the cause of this collapse....if we cannot work as a unit toward a better day...we are doomed.

There, this sounds like socialism to me...

reply to post by POXUSA


You say its evil. What is more against being human than the dog eat dog world of free market capitalism? To be human, to be humane to others to care and not be taken by lower aspects of existence like shiny materialism this is what is good. Greedy dog eat dog I've got mine you may be screwed but I wont help you attitude is EVIL.

How else do you define evil?

reply to post by theMediator


Glad my ethereal point got across to someone....

2nd line

reply to post by inverslyproportional


Whats your answer when the machines take over all manual labor? Again brainwashed and not thinking.

I think it has become quite clear to a fair amount of people that most far left liberals are socialists. Obama is clearly a socialist and has pretty much admitted as much. I'll be the first to admit that capitalism has a lot of faults but that is true of any system and given a choice between what we have and socialism, I'll keep the current model although I would like some changes.

I don't think socialism is evil, I just know it would never work in America, because it has never worked anywhere else ultimately. Id be willing to bet that Barry is gonna be the last liberal president of the United States for a while anyway.

Socialism is for the people not the socialist.

The people in power who advocate socialism do not really want socialism.

They want absolute control.

There has never been real socialism or communism, because socialism was never the goal in the first place.
The people were just stupid enough to believe that it was.

Anyone who believes the left in America, just wants everyone to be equal, or everyone to have insurance or this that or the other thing. Is just plain ignorant.

They don't care about any of that.
They just want control over everything.

They don't care about you,
Nobody cares about you.

Take care of yourself and your family.

Capitalism is king.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by Cobaltic1978

 

Every dollar you make, someone is losing a dollar, however people think the money they gain has no influence on others.

Every dollar I earn is done in payment for goods or service.

I provide a service and someone pays me to perform that service.

If I provide a highly skilled service, then I can demand more for that service.

I get so angry when others try to dictate what I should have, what I "need" and what I deserve.

SELF-DETERMINATION

Yeah i hate also hate it when someone dictates that an unskilled job is only worth minimum wage. Who are they to decide that?

reply to post by POXUSA


Here, this the ONLY reason you have to link Obama to socialism:

www.salon.com...

www.thedailybeast.com...

Now quit making things up. Have you see the stock market? Not very good at it is he? I think this thread is mostly about you.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc


Yeah i hate also hate it when someone dictates that an unskilled job is only worth minimum wage. Who are they to decide that?

If the unskilled worker chooses to remain unskilled, then he/she can only demand what the market will bear in terms of salary.

It is their choice.

We can't determine authority over humanity based on emotions. We can't legislate based on emotions. People bemoan humanity suffering, based on emotions.

This thread alone I've been accused of being callous. Simply because I place life and all that it holds, on the shoulders of the individual.

Everyone has a choice. What we do with the result of that choice determines our own futures.

reply to post by Jeremiah65


Should the taxpayer be allowed to determine what his taxes are spent on?
Suppose there is an annual spreadsheet of where the collective taxes of the country are spent and on what.
Think pie chart....education......%, defence....% healthcare/nhs.....% EU membership contributions....%, police....% energy, housing, etc, you name it.
Being from the UK, I am relatively certain that people would be more than happy to pay their taxes (even a tax increase,) if they could determine what their taxes were spent on. Overall figures would determine the things the country deems important and worth investing in.

We are all poisoned ladies and gentlemen. TPTB have split us into idealistic camps and it is completely unnecessary.

I like the idea of effort = reward....it is a fundamental principle.

I also...as odd as it might sound....hate to see another human being in pain.

We are being systematically divided by an unseen and yet extraordinarily powerful force. They like it when we are at each other's throats...it makes their job of steering and controlling much easier.

I refuse to participate anymore. I am done.

I work for myself. I make enough money to pay the bills but that is about it. I am not getting rich over here. I made a decision since I had a skill in demand that I was not going to be a puppet anymore. I will choose what I work on, for how much and when I will complete it...if you do not like those terms...see ya...

I am not a socialist. I am by far not a communist. I am not a democrat or republican....I am a human...I am something you cannot fit into a box.

For the most part, I am a Libertarian. I agree with most of their platform. But I am also a human being. I will not sit idly by while another human suffers and needs help...call it what you want, I call it "being human"...

One day...we will get our sh!t together...we will one day figure out that we need each other and we do not need "sheep herders"...I don't know when that day will come...but I feel it is close...if the GOV will get out of the way and let us be "human beings" toward one another. Man is that a question or what?

We do not need to have some folks extraordinarily wealthier than others..it serves no use in the advancement of the species..but yet we seem to think this is completely acceptable...guess what?...evolutionarily speaking...it is not ok.

It will all come out in the wash...whether you believe in and afterlife, higher plane,,,reincarnation or not...doesn't matter...those that have risen to the "do nothing" level will soon find that they are falling out of favor...no one cares how little they did and ow much fun they had. people are beginning to tire of "living vicariously"....they want to live for themselves...so hopefully the Kardashians will end up in the gutter where their stupid trash belongs...

I am not supporting pure anything...I am trying to get people to see that we are at once a collection of freeminds and yet an interdependent culture. It is NOT ok for some to prey on others for a moment of fame and glory...but we allow it to happen. Stop supporting this for phase one....we can move to phase 2 when more realize that the famous are no better than they are...just more wll known.

reply to post by beezzer

Originally posted by beezzer

So you're okay with sacrificing the rights of the individual for the good of the collective. Fine. I'm not.

I have nothing against the whole of humanity. If we were all born the same, with the same phenotypes, the same genotypes, all identical, then your philosophy would have merit.

But we are a species of individuals. With individual needs, desires, abilities.

So the rights of the individual should trump the collective only because you'd be inhibiting, sacrificing, denying the rights of the individual to obtain the collective "rights".

In my opinion, it is this philosophy that is one of the most detrimental to our species. Individuals cannot sustain themselves by themselves. If we lived in a world where we sent our children out into the wilderness with a loin cloth and a switch blade when they reached a certain age then this philosphy might be acceptable. However, to live comfortably in our current world you need other people. You need society and civilization.

People are people. We all breathe oxygen, have blood, bear children, and love those children. Our species currently has the technology and resources to make sure all people have access to food, shelter, healthcare, and education. But because some people feel that some "Phenotypes" and "Genotypes" of person are not as deserving as others we have millions existing in misery and hopelessness. Yet if these miserable, hopeless people had access to those basic necessities of food, healthcare, shelter, and education those phenotypes and genotypes would proportionally automatically become more like, and more "acceptable" to the Phenos and Genos who do have those things.

The most common roadblocks for man in bettering themselves are poverty and education. We have the ability to remove those roadbloacks. If everyone was afforded the same opportunities to receive what should be basic human rights...we would be DOMINATING the universe right now.

I think some of the things you mention have merit. I have always felt the government should be responsible for healthcare for their citizens. The government can easily draft our sons and daughters into wars, and they need its citizens to defend our homeland. Without its citizens they don't have an army. They should at least reciprocate and be responsible for our healthcare like the majority of free countries in the world. Instead, they expect our citizens to work their entire life and use every penny of their savings, before all the taxes we paid into medicare kick in. If that isn't enough, what ever is left after you die they tax! Forget about putting inheritance money away for your kids, the government will soak up every last penny. Get a devastating disease, lose your house. To ignore this basic human right is appalling. Humanity should be better than this.

I also think energy should be controlled by the government. For the billions of dollars private oil companies make, it could help reduce taxes for the average citizen. Government needs some way to bring in revenue, constantly raising taxes on its citizens is only reducing take home pay and affecting our buying power. In the short run it's affecting our economy.

I do have a problem with the welfare system. The government refuses to close loopholes and ignores its abuses. Giving away free money and food without asking those same people to volunteer working hours for city or state is wrong. Who else would have an incentive to work when you receive a free monthly check and food. Not to mention allowing these benefits to purchase junk food and fast food.

I think a lot of people don't trust their government. Yet, I don't trust corporations just the same. We can go down a list of corporations that have caused economic problems for us, not to mention the banks. Energy companies have a monopoly over their consumers.

Retailers, cable and satellite companies, cell phone companies are all using bogus charges to increase their profits and at the same time ripping off consumers. Ask anyone who ever bought a product off of an infomercial. There's nothing like lying to the consumer and at the same time make it difficult to get a refund. Ever notice the cost of those ridiculous shipping and handling charges. No wonder why they offer you two products for the price of one. Your paying for the second one in shipping charges!

I remember a history teacher once said, capitalism isn't perfect, but its the best system out there. I think both socialism and capitalism each have some advantages and disadvantages in their systems. The best system should take the best of both worlds.

As far as I can tell, socialism doesn't work. Corrupt government will poison any good intentions.

Originally posted by Malynn


In my opinion, it is this philosophy that is one of the most detrimental to our species. Individuals cannot sustain themselves by themselves. If we lived in a world where we sent our children out into the wilderness with a loin cloth and a switch blade when they reached a certain age then this philosphy might be acceptable. However, to live comfortably in our current world you need other people. You need society and civilization.

People don't need society. Society needs people.

People are people. We all breathe oxygen, have blood, bear children, and love those children. Our species currently has the technology and resources to make sure all people have access to food, shelter, healthcare, and education. But because some people feel that some "Phenotypes" and "Genotypes" of person are not as deserving as others we have millions existing in misery and hopelessness. Yet if these miserable, hopeless people had access to those basic necessities of food, healthcare, shelter, and education those phenotypes and genotypes would proportionally automatically become more like, and more "acceptable" to the Phenos and Genos who do have those things.

People have different needs, different desires. To sacrifice some for the benefit of others is to deny rights of some, for the betterment of others.

The most common roadblocks for man in bettering themselves are poverty and education. We have the ability to remove those roadbloacks. If everyone was afforded the same opportunities to receive what should be basic human rights...we would be DOMINATING the universe right now.

edit on 3/8/13 by Malynn because: (no reason given)

What is your definition of basic human rights?