BREAKING: Hugo Chavez Is Dead

reply to post by merkins


I agree I have read alot about him since last night and all the sites which diss him appear to be US news sites etc, I reckon many people in the USA just hate anything that is socialist and hate him for that also.
I wish there were more people like him If I'am honest.
Like Kali said above I hope when he does die the successor follows his footsteps and does not bow down the the Oil led US government.

Rumours swirl as Chavez stays out of sight
DateMarch 1, 2013 - 12:17AM

Read more: www.theage.com.au...

reply to post by CALGARIAN


According to some sources...he is not dead yet.

Link: www.theatlanticwire.com...

I personally do not think Hugo Chavez is dead; I think information about his death is false information.

So does this officially go in the hoax bin? Seeing as it isn't true...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

Please do... I'll look forward to links and data to back that claim...as I have much more where my links there came from. This debate could get rather interesting if we want to get into real depth on the history and details of the rule of Hugo Chavez and the people he selected around him.

There's not need for detailed debate, just an unbias look at what the media is and isn't allowed to say.

In Britain and America and in other countries, media outlets lose their license over relatively minor anti-government "propaganda". Look at the bans being made on Press Tv, that's a perfect example of "freedom" in the western press.

Now let's look at Venezuela, and we don't have to go much farther than the surface. Most of the media in Venezuela are so profoundly anti-Chavez that it's a real surprise most of them are allowed to exist. The anti-Chavez propaganda, and that's what it is, is widespread and vicious. It's several times over the limit on American media, if American media or British media were as anti-government as the Venezuelan media, they'd be pulled off air in a flash, and we've seen that.

In Venezuela what happens? The media RALLY and propagandise for a f//////g COUP against the leader of the country and they barely get a slap on the wrist, they're still allowed to broadcast. Celebrate the kidnap of the president, and start a song and dance about it. Yet little to nothing happens. Why? Because brainwashed zealots like you would cry wolf if Chavez took them off air... Even though any reasonable person, any reasonable government, would take them off air.

How long would Fox News last if tomorrow they started calling on people to take to the streets with their weapons and overthrow Obama, by hook or crook. But even that's not a fair comparison, because the anti-Chavez media in Venezuela is funded in large part by America. So Fox doing that still wouldn't compare.

It's an American invented fairy tale that Chavez is running around stomping on innocent media outlets for speaking bad of him.

The Venezuelan media is ANTI-CHAVEZ. Papers, radio, tv, they're anti-Chavez. Some of the anti Chavez media don't play by the rules(RCTV as an example) and action is taken against them. That's what happens when you rock the boat. Except you wouldn't know that because by in large the media in America don't even have the freedom to even ATTEMPT to rock the boat.

If the Venezuelan press is so restricted(ironically it's the American press who say) then how is it that they're notably anti-Chavez(in spite of public opinion).

If you went up to a police offer, started swearing, shouting, threatening, then ran up and kicked him in the shin, he'll beat you down and arrest you. That doesn't mean we're living in an Orwellian police state, no more than the Venezuelan media acting considerably out of line and being put into line(which only happens rarely as it goes) isn't press censorship.

But you probably don't want to hear it, do you? I bet your "free" American press has you believing it's all hail Chavez in the Venezuelan media, and locked up in a dungeon if you don't follow suit huh.

Keep drinking that kool aid.

www.dailykos.com...

Plenty of people have wrote on this. Pilger is one. But that would involve reading a book without the government sat at the end of your bed doing it for you. Do you think you can do that?

It's interesting if it does turn out that he isn't quite dead yet. Some folks talk about this as a hoax as if it was a report of an otherwise healthy man having died? Chavez IS a dying man, whatever has or hasn't happened for that being official at this point. As long as he is kept out of sight by his handlers...or IS dead.. whichever the truth may be, I'd say it's an interesting thing to speculate on.

It's something many may not recall, but in Socialist nations (Russia comes to mind as the Soviet Empire), the deaths of leaders are often muddied and outright denied at first. It's eventually announced when it occasionally happens, with maximum pomp and circumstance in a real production. I'd expect to see that here when Venezuela decides to officially announce his death.

Again though, if that death hasn't happened quite yet, it won't be long now, regardless. His very poor health and dying status is something I've heard no one in his nation or elsewhere argue or debate. As much as some people make him out to be some magic solution to a failing nation he created the problems for ...he is not immortal.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Any members posting from Caracas on a computer, with the ability to post in English, probably arnt the best people to ask about the improvements to life in Venezuela. Maybe find out about the millions who have been brought out of dire poverty, who now have access to housing, healthcare, education and subsidised food. I'm sure they are not complaining.

Why should the resources of Venezuela not benefit the poor? Why should they be sold off to capitalist multinationals, who by their very nature care little for a nations people.

Another of the problems for Americans is their experiences with American-Venezuelans.The problem is that most of the Venezuelans in America were relatively wealthy and fled Venezuela not because Chavez was evil, but because Chavez was going to be bring in regulations and help the poor at their(the wealthy who ran to America) extent.

Any country would sound bad if you only ever asked expats who didn't want to live their because they didn't like the tax and regulation, even good old blighty or America

Originally posted by VonDinkinDunken


I have yet to meet a Venezuelan who likes the guy. Then again, I haven't met every single Venezuelan. Still, out of the handful of Venezuelans I call mi familia, not a one of them likes Hugo Chavez. In fact, they see him as the egomaniac who destroyed their country.

edit on 28-2-2013 by VonDinkinDunken because: because the voices in my head told me I must

Case in point.

Rich Venezuelans who fled Venezuela. That's all they know. Never spoke to an ordinary Venezuelan, nah, because ordinary Venezuelans still live there and quite like the place.

reply to post by GrandStrategy

Actually.... You make some pretty direct and potent statements there about my own positions. If you'd like to throw statements like that around and have no support or backing for them. Fine..... Everyone has the right to troll. Just understand, trolling is all I'm seeing your posts as, if you now suddenly decide 'debate isn't necessary'. Yeah.. I'm sure it isn't .....given the fact I will counter your every point with solid support and basis. If only you'd make a point or two for something to counter.

If I go out and call someone outright wrong or misleading....I do it with support and backing to say WHY ...beyond my own opinions. That means something, usually. Attacking on pure opinion and with no outside support or basis? That's trolling, IMO.

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


Indeed. People didn't like him because he told Washington,DC where to stick it. He wasn't a sell-out like most other countries under the thumb of the NWO.

reply to post by GrandStrategy

Errr.... I made very specific points that you replied to..and said you'd be back to address. I'll ask again.. Do you have anything in reply here that has OUTSIDE support or basis beyond your own typed opinion?

I'd almost put the couple hours into getting all the data and material about Venezuela together last night but stopped myself. I had a feeling that the response and replies wouldn't amount to more than this....which would have made my own efforts a total waste of time. A few too many times of spending hours on a thing to have short opinion based attack replies be all that comes afterward has me a lot more cautious now about expending the effort.

This report from The Real News Network suggests to me that Chavez's health must be very, very bad.

Apparently the Bolivian president made a special trip to Venezuela in the last week or so to see Chavez, a specially arranged visit specifically for that purpose, but the meeting did not happen. Chavez is unable to speak because he has had a tracheotomy. He is only seeing his closest relatives and advisors. They say his spirits are good and that he communicates by writing notes.

reply to post by Podius1

People didn't like him because he ran his nation into the ground. (as I and others have repeatedly posted solid factual reference to now several times down the thread) How many economic reports and basic facts about standard and quality of daily life in his nation can be ignored to nurture the seeming love some have for this man?

I thought Obama had a blindly loyal following. Chavez apparently has a far deeper example of it. Anything is okay and all is forgiven ....as long as Chavez did it.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

Actually.... You make some pretty direct and potent statements there about my own positions. If you'd like to throw statements like that around and have no support or backing for them. Fine..... Everyone has the right to troll. Just understand, trolling is all I'm seeing your posts as, if you now suddenly decide 'debate isn't necessary'. Yeah.. I'm sure it isn't .....given the fact I will counter your every point with solid support and basis. If only you'd make a point or two for something to counter.

If I go out and call someone outright wrong or misleading....I do it with support and backing to say WHY ...beyond my own opinions. That means something, usually. Attacking on pure opinion and with no outside support or basis? That's trolling, IMO.

The way I figure it, if you actually wanted to be told the truth about these things you'd have been, found it and accepted it already. That you're sat here parroting American media myths, that tells me that you aren't the sort of person who cares for facts. So it's a bit rich you asking them.

But go ahead. I made several points, repeatedly. You can dispute any one of them.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

Errr.... I made very specific points that you replied to..and said you'd be back to address. I'll ask again.. Do you have anything in reply here that has OUTSIDE support or basis beyond your own typed opinion?

I'd almost put the couple hours into getting all the data and material about Venezuela together last night but stopped myself. I had a feeling that the response and replies wouldn't amount to more than this....which would have made my own efforts a total waste of time. A few too many times of spending hours on a thing to have short opinion based attack replies be all that comes afterward has me a lot more cautious now about expending the effort.

Bring whatever you want, you have nothing that stands up to simple logical reasoning.

Your argument is self defeating. You say anti-Chavez media are stomped on by Chavez, yet anti-Chavez opinion dominates the Venezuelan media. Does that make sense in your head? If dissenting voices were quelled, as you claim, then why is it that the Venezuelan media persists and is still indisputably anti-Chavez?

Come on. Use a bit of common bloody sense.

reply to post by GrandStrategy

Okay, I'm getting the impression you have no intention of supporting much of anything here.... The condescension is certainly uncalled for though as we're both intelligent people and I'd assume, well educated as well. I'm interested in how, why (by factual basis) people believe Chavez has been a positive influence for his nation.

Thus far, replies are stocked to the rafters with anecdotes, opinion and general rah rah cheer leading for him. Chavez is good, America is evil and anything Chavez does to stick it to America must be just fine because... after all... the ends always justify the means. Right? The political prisoners in Chavez's Venezuela aren't REALLY what they are I suppose. The failing economy isn't really failing and the inflation rate in the 20's for % isn't really there... right?

C'mon... The cold facts of economic reality say he's run his country into the ground after almost a decade and a half of doing it. He can't even blame anyone else...he's been there too long as the absolute leader.

The only other conclusion is that Chavez isn't a very good dictator if he's been censoring and crushing the media for all these years for being against him, and still these bastards stand defiant!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by GrandStrategy

 

Okay, I'm getting the impression you have no intention of supporting much of anything here.... The condescension is certainly uncalled for though as we're both intelligent people and I'd assume, well educated as well. I'm interested in how, why (by factual basis) people believe Chavez has been a positive influence for his nation.

Thus far, replies are stocked to the rafters with anecdotes, opinion and general rah rah cheer leading for him. Chavez is good, America is evil and anything Chavez does to stick it to America must be just fine because... after all... the ends always justify the means. Right? The political prisoners in Chavez's Venezuela aren't REALLY what they are I suppose. The failing economy isn't really failing and the inflation rate in the 20's for % isn't really there... right?

C'mon... The cold facts of economic reality say he's run his country into the ground after almost a decade and a half of doing it. He can't even blame anyone else...he's been there too long as the absolute leader.

That's something else. Whether his governing of the economy has been good or bad, subjective. Do you want to look at the empowered masses and make a decision, or do you want to look at the economic science and base your opinion on that? Subjective.

And there's no doubt Chavez has political prisoners and I'm sure you could find plenty of things he's done wrong. But running roughshod over a dissenting media is not one of them.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


N Korea, Iran, Venzuela, & Cuba have one particular thing in common....they won't sell out their countries to the Banker Cabal who uses the U.S. to sacrafice their men and women for these phony wars for alternate motives. Has NOTHING to do with "freedom" and "false Democracy"....nuff said....