Why will people argue Creation vs. Evolution when it is possible to have both?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

This is not relavent to this topic. I also hold the lessons in the Bible up as lessons most important and necessary for Humanity....still....this does not mean that something so important to Humanity is something that was written by a GOD.

Split Infinity

It's above any human comprehension. Look deep, within the symbols, then use the linguistic root morphology of Hebrew, Greek and Latin to unlock the seed. The Bible has all the seeds. The language has the root, vine and branches.

Baptism

Amni - River of life

Amnio - Bowl that catches the blood of the sacrificial lamb

Amnion - Covering of the water and blood

Amniotic Fluid - Water of the matrix (Womb)

Amnesia - Condition in the water (Forgetfulness)

Amnesty - Forgiveness in a foreign land

Baptism is the seed in the Bible. The linguistics grow the seed. I just showed you one of thousands if you study to show yourself approved by God. You will never get there if your starting foundation is doubt that God can seal His word from defect. The true story is in the symbols.

I give you this free. You won't find it anywhere else but here. Take it or leave it. I would suggest the Jeff Benner Ancient Hebrew Lexicon as a start. I bought mine used on Amazon. LINK

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Enoch...I am sorry to say I am disappointed in you.

We have been having...to a majority extent...a debate about the topic using known proof...known lack of proof...various evidence and logic and I have enjoyed it.

But now you have abandoned that and have resorted to posting something and saying...THIS is a TRUTH...Believe it without any evidence...and if I don't...I am somehow missing or lacking something.

Perhaps it is my ability to form a wall of logic around this issue but given your obviously high level of intellect...I find myself...disappointed.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by salainen

If God isn't human, and is probably something you can't even imagine, then why is it so impossible for it to be something infinite times more powerful? Its something out of this world, so we can't really comprehend what it is.

Not something out of this world but out of this universe...

Could be, but we are back to the chicken or the egg. I also have an issue with something so grand that it creates universes but still has interest in what every human does on a good and evil scale.

What goes on outside of this universe is something we cannot comprehend any which way we look at it. Zero time, matter that appears in and out of nothingness, infinite scenarios.... To add some super being controlling it all just adds another layer not really needed.

Personally I'm not convinced that he is infinite times more powerful, nor that he created the universe. He certainly can't do everything, not even the bible says that he could.

I would be more incline to believe that some race billions of years old created the earth and us....I don't see any reason for this either, but it is more believable, at least we would be keeping all this within the confines of our universe.

One question though. What is the evidence for evolution?

What do you mean by evidence? I would think DNA is a good place to start.

There is another part to all this that I don't think any of you really thought about....

Why do we use oxygen, iron and other elements as we do that are critical to us? Why is lead and other compounds poisonous to us etc? The main reason is because we evolved using what was most common to our world. It would not take much of a change to make us sick and die, but we are in perfect balance.

Oxygen is a great one. This is one of the most destructive elements known, but it is life to us.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Good Post as far as our Elemental makeup.

Human Tears and Blood have almost the same Salinity as our Oceans.

Split Infinity

SplitInfinity, yes, I often get lots of questions when reading through a topic, and then try and fit them all into one post. Sorry about that, but at least this time I got lots of answers, thanks.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
As far as the Moses thing...just Google Moses crossed Reed sea not Red sea and all sorts of info will come to you.

Interesting, I shall read and see what I find.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
As far as my statement about whether there is or is not a GOD and how the evidence points against a GODS existence...although I hope there is one...the reality of there really being no evidence to support the existence of a GOD is self evident. The only thing people of faith bring to the table for evidence...which is not evidence at all...is what is written in one ancient text or another. There is absolutely no scientific...logic bases tangible evidence to support the existence of a GOD...although I with this were not true...wishing for something will not make it be a reality.

There is no evidence for God, but that isn't evidence for God not being real either. The written texts are not (at least that I've heard of) ever given by churches as evidence for God, but rather some form of written account from God (through people). I've never heard of anyone saying that they have proof of God, nor the other way around.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
As far as Chimps and Humns haveing so much similarity within each of their Genomes...that is because both species shared a common ancestor...it this has been Genetically Proven and is a FACT beyond reproach.

Yes it is, but, what is that evidence?

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
but such is the nature of a person who tends to know too much.

I hope your not saying that you know too much Unless it was as a joke.

Originally posted by GoldenOne23
you can not believe in both. You either believe God or you believe in evolution. The theory of evolution does not state that God made the universe, it states everything evolved from a single organism. You cannot say you believe both.

We aren't necessarily talking about your personal belief here. Were talking about the existance of God. You can believe in God, and that God created the single organism, and then furthermore created it in a way that made if follow laws such as evolution, so that eventually it would come up with man.

You could even believe in the God of the Old Testament (so Jewish, Christian...) Since there is, as a matter of fact, an Adam and Eve in evolution. Both as a biological Adam and Eve, and as the first man and woman, which you could call Adam and Eve.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Not something out of this world but out of this universe...

Could be, but we are back to the chicken or the egg. I also have an issue with something so grand that it creates universes but still has interest in what every human does on a good and evil scale.

What goes on outside of this universe is something we cannot comprehend any which way we look at it. Zero time, matter that appears in and out of nothingness, infinite scenarios.... To add some super being controlling it all just adds another layer not really needed.

Good point there with God being out of our universe. Why have an issue with something being so grand that it creates universes, yet still being so personal as to have an interest in every human? Its out of this universe, so why does it have to conform to our time scales, our measurements of importance and size, our idea of something being "grand" or "insignificant"? What if this infinite scenarios situation actually needs a super being controlling it? You don't need to think about it, but how is it impossible? How do you know that layer is not really needed?

Originally posted by Xtrozero
What do you mean by evidence? I would think DNA is a good place to start.

There is another part to all this that I don't think any of you really thought about....

Why do we use oxygen, iron and other elements as we do that are critical to us? Why is lead and other compounds poisonous to us etc? The main reason is because we evolved using what was most common to our world. It would not take much of a change to make us sick and die, but we are in perfect balance.

Oxygen is a great one. This is one of the most destructive elements known, but it is life to us.

I mean the evidence. We all know there is evidence of evolution, so are you able to list it here?

Yes, we have evolved using what is most common to our world. Then, if you think about God creating us, he would have either made us to fit the world, or the world to fit our needs. Do you see my point? You can look at it from end to beginning, thinking that we evolved to use the materials available to us. Or you can look at it from beginning to end, thinking that we were created to use the materials around us.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I knew this post would confuse (after reading it back a few times).. I am PRO EVOLUTION as there is very adequate PROOF in my mind. I am anti GOD for many reasons and do not BELIEVE in ANY form of 'UNIVERSAL CREATOR' as there is NO PRIMARY EVIDENCE of a creator, only the 'machinations' of our universe.

See my other post for a full extrapolation of all 'creation vs evolution' logical conclusions in relation to the concept that REALITY needs PROOF that requires extraordinary PRIMARY EVIDENCE.

I can only resolve A CREATOR and EVOLUTION in my imagination as in REALITY there is NO PROOF of a CREATOR.

It's up to YOU to PROVE The Creator exists, NOT ME..

I take REALITY to mean 'that which more than one observer agree is proved beyond all reasonable doubt to EXIST', I do not take it to mean 'that which MAY be POSSIBLE' (that's a POSSIBLE REALITY at best, an IMAGINED WORLD, at worst)...

Originally posted by PrivateSi
I take REALITY to mean 'that which more than one observer agree is proved beyond all reasonable doubt to EXIST', I do not take it to mean 'that which MAY be POSSIBLE' (that's a POSSIBLE REALITY at best, an IMAGINED WORLD, at worst)...

I would just put it as: 'that which one or more observers believe is beyound all reasonable doubt to exist'. As in, a single person, say a mentally ill person, can have their own reality. Nobody else may agree with it, but thats their reality. Everyone's reality is slightly different, all depending on experiences, genetic makeup etc. Nobody can truly know the actual reality, as we are all biassed, we only have limited senses, limited brain capacity (and we don't even use much of that capacity). To put it blunt, you and I do not know what is real.

Originally posted by PrivateSi
It's up to YOU to PROVE The Creator exists, NOT ME..

Up to whom? Some priest? Study it yourself, if you want to learn. If you don't, well, you don't have to.

Its not up to you to prove to me that gravity exists. Its up to me to discover.

I beleive GOD created us all, and the aleins and big feet. were all the same but evolution is a big lie. why would our church men lie to us cuz there here for GOD.

Originally posted by salainen
You don't need to think about it, but how is it impossible?

I never said or will say impossible. I just ask why is a god needed? We are made up of what this universe has to offer. Why are we any different than some other complex chemical reaction?

You could also ask why is it impossible that there are planet size purple flying hippos, and basically be about as correct as saying god. I'm not here to say neither exist and I understand faith very well, but for me the why is never answered, so we always fight over the how.

For me the question is why must there be a god, and until I can answer that I just do not see how as very important.

Originally posted by bigfootgurl
I beleive GOD created us all, and the aleins and big feet. were all the same but evolution is a big lie. why would our church men lie to us cuz there here for GOD.

You sir are a troll....

reply to post by salainen


The Human...Chimp DNA evidence is something I would think you could reference someone more informed of the Genetics than I am so since I am not a Geneticist...I would recommend Googling this as well.

As far as knowing too much...I wish that were a joke...but unfortunately it is not.

Split Infinity

reply to post by PrivateSi


I know Evolution to be a reality. I don't know nor can I state either way if there is a GOD or not...thus what I am trying to say in this topic is...If one believes in a GOD...there is no one that can state with 100% certainty that a GOD does not exist...as well as state the opposite.

Given these realities...IF...there is a GOD....that GOD would have used both Quantum Evolution and Biological Evolution to create the Universe...perhaps Multiverse...and everything or one in it.

I am not one to advocate the belief in a GOD simply because there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support this.

I AM ONE to advocate the REALITY of EVOLUTION...as it is a proven fact.

Hope this clears things up between us.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I never said or will say impossible. I just ask why is a god needed? We are made up of what this universe has to offer. Why are we any different than some other complex chemical reaction?

You could also ask why is it impossible that there are planet size purple flying hippos, and basically be about as correct as saying god. I'm not here to say neither exist and I understand faith very well, but for me the why is never answered, so we always fight over the how.

For me the question is why must there be a god, and until I can answer that I just do not see how as very important.

Yes I see, suppose its not important when you look at it like that. God isn't necessarily needed, it just seems so unlikely that life begun randomly (unlikely, as in its a very small probability).

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
The Human...Chimp DNA evidence is something I would think you could reference someone more informed of the Genetics than I am so since I am not a Geneticist...I would recommend Googling this as well.

I have studied Genetics, and kind of know the evidence. I just want someone else to list it out in a post (pretty sure I'm missing something).

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
As far as knowing too much...I wish that were a joke...but unfortunately it is not.

I hoped it was a joke, as I'm of the opinion that anyone who thinks they know too much actually knows very, very little. The more you learn, the less you know you know. With every answer comes so many questions. If you think you know too much, well, you haven't even begun to learn.

reply to post by salainen


I think you have misunderstood me.

I am not stating this as in a way that I know everyhting because I am somehow smarter than everyone else.

I am saying it in the way that...because of what I sometimes do...that being...working with membersof the U.S. Military from time to time...doing a specific...JOB...this JOB tends to allow me certain information that is not comon knowledge nor will it ever be anytimes soon.

Thus...the man who knew too much.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
I am saying it in the way that...because of what I sometimes do...that being...working with membersof the U.S. Military from time to time...doing a specific...JOB...this JOB tends to allow me certain information that is not comon knowledge nor will it ever be anytimes soon.

I fell sorry for people who claim this. There is no way for them to prove it, so its hard to believe they have access to information about some conspiracy or another. But then often you can't disprove them either, so you never really know. Kind of like God now that I think about it

What is your role in the military (part time?). Surely the job name cannot be classified. Does this job give you insights on what? The existance of God?

reply to post by salainen


I am not a member of the U.S. Military...I am..."CIVILIAN".

When I posted what I did...it was not a reply to specific topic or about information I might have about the existence of a GOD...because I have none.

I just had some things on my mind and I was distressed because I am trying to retire....for what seems to be the fourth or fifth time...from this sometimes...JOB.

It is not important to me if you believe what I post or not. That is up to you and I have no issue with anyone who tells me they don't.

I just wanted you to know I was not trying to come off like I knew more than you or was somehow bettrer or...etc.

I just was thinking about something I have to do and am trying to get out of but my conscience will not allow me to quit. When I read whay you posted...I sighed and typed what I did.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by salainen

 

I am not a member of the U.S. Military...I am..."CIVILIAN".

When I posted what I did...it was not a reply to specific topic or about information I might have about the existence of a GOD...because I have none.

I just had some things on my mind and I was distressed because I am trying to retire....for what seems to be the fourth or fifth time...from this sometimes...JOB.

It is not important to me if you believe what I post or not. That is up to you and I have no issue with anyone who tells me they don't.

I just wanted you to know I was not trying to come off like I knew more than you or was somehow bettrer or...etc.

I just was thinking about something I have to do and am trying to get out of but my conscience will not allow me to quit. When I read whay you posted...I sighed and typed what I did.

Split Infinity

Oh thats right, I read it wrong, you said "I worked with members of the US military", not "as a member of". You probably meant you know too much about some maths or something., I understand you didn't mean that you know more than others etc.

reply to post by salainen


Thanks for understanding.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Come on, you're TWISTING the BURDEN OF PROOF - circular arguments can only result from this - in computing terms you're just creating an ENDLESS LOOP.

I CAN and AM stating with 100% certainty that there is NO CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE of a CREATOR - That is REALITY (as in The Reality) - other realities are just other IMAGINARY REALITIES, like I said.

You could use the cop-out that we're in a holographic, computer generated reality but the burden of proof is for you to prove this too and for all intents and purposes computer / creator are interchangeable in this respect and anyhow, what CREATED this 'FALSE REALITY' (that we've (well, other philosophers) have MADE UP for the purposes of this argument)?

Cheers for debate but we can only go round in circles now and I BELIEVE I am looking at things from the TRUE perspective whereas you are letting in any number of FALSEHOODS into your reasoning. We will probably just polarise each other's views more so LET'S STOP! Thanks again, have a good 'un!

TRUTH needs PROOF, REAL POSSIBILITIES / PROBABILITIES needs DECENT EVIDENCE - Primary evidence beats secondary evidence beats tertiary evidence.. IMAGINARY POSSIBILITIES are ENDLESS..