Why will people argue Creation vs. Evolution when it is possible to have both?

reply to post by Xtrozero

If I look at the possibilities of you being born today going back 4 billion years and planning everything forward to make you come into the world of course that is an impossibility that only God could do, but then we also have the part that someone or something would be born no matter what with the same impossibility view as you have if we planned it by looking forward from the start.

Can I program 15 billion years of simulation into a computer program and let it run for 6 days to see where it leads? Can I then go back into the original simulation, inform the inhabitants with clues to where it leads and then run the program again? You say God is incapable, yet you know we can do it in a crude manner on a computer. Why would we limit an obvious God? Didn't he say how it was done?

Did God say it was a finite image with a beginning and end? Did he say it was known by him from beginning to end? Did he say it is programmed? Do we have evidence it was programmed?

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Not only is it probable, but it is entire possible and believable.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

Not only is it probable, but it is entire possible and believable.

Nothing in what you just posted supports that statement. Perhaps this is the part where you begin to explain your certainty in a manner that the rest of us can comprehend without just taking it all for granted. Because we can't take it for granted - the truth doesn't become the truth simply because we believe it is. That invites the possibility of psychosis.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Not only is it probable, but it is entire possible and believable.

Nothing in what you just posted supports that statement. Perhaps this is the part where you begin to explain your certainty in a manner that the rest of us can comprehend without just taking it all for granted. Because we can't take it for granted - the truth doesn't become the truth simply because we believe it is. That invites the possibility of psychosis.

Are you sure about that? Why? You can only have a solid foundation if it is unmoved. Christ is the Chief Cornerstone. That Cornerstone is giving and love. Show me a higher truth. Read Me!

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I said explain your certainty so we can understand. Are you deliberately avoiding a rational response?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I said explain your certainty so we can understand. Are you deliberately avoiding a rational response?

The foundation that I place my certainty and hope in is the foundation of all reality. I explained myself clearly. I then asked you to show a higher truth. I realize you will have trouble seeing this. Pride blinds. Let me explain it more clearly.

Unity happens in the mind when truth is undivided and unbroken. This is the SEED that originates the plant. From unity, we get multiplicity. From multiplicity, unity returns. It's a cycle. When the seed divides, we see it's parts expressed into various ideas and concepts. Like a seed origination the plant from DNA, truth is the same. When we hold something to be evident, this evident truth is a axiom we see as most evident. Between multiple axioms, we see paradox and division of the whole. When lower axioms are resolved, higher truths emerge as new axioms. Eventually, all lower axioms can be resolved to a single idea. You can see this as a unified truth, from which, all other truths emerge. As long as I know that one truth, the rest below is seen clearly.

The Bible holds a package of seeds locked in a shells called symbols. For instance, the seed truth of Baptism is immersion into the water. How do we then find the key to unlocking the root and branches of the symbols as the seed grows into a mature plant?

The roots of all seeds are expressed in linguistic networks found in three languages. Hebrew (phoenician), Greek and Latin. Hebrew is a concrete outline of the physical world. Greek and Latin represent the abstract and mathematical relationship to the first. The roots of these three languages express the seeds in the symbols.

Baptism is in the water.

Amni is the river of life. This is the first root of water.

Amnio is the bowl that catches the blood of the sacrificed lamb. This is your body.

Amnion is the outer shell holding in the waters of life.

Amniotic Fluid is the water of the womb. Compare this to Earth as the Matrix and flowing cycles water moves within.

Amnesia is a condition in the water. If you add Sia to any Latin world, you get a condition. Forgetfulness behind the veil of the temple is your inability to see past the womb you are in before your next birth. You must be born again.

Amnesty is the forgiveness you can receive from the process.

What I just described to you is baptism. We are immersed into the water so we can learn the difference between good and evil. The way to overcome the law that is our guardian while here is love. Love is the fulfillment of the law, just as the Bible states.

From this one seed, the root makes the vine. From that vine, there are various other branches that work their way back to the seed. Language is the key to seeing from one end to the other on the tree of life. As I explain this one seed, several other seeds appear, each connected back to that central vine of truth. For the sake of showing you these pearls, I simply outline one in relation to many others.

For instance, the Shepherd of the process pulls the wool over our eyes. This is the veil over the temple and the amnesia that we experience in the matrix (Womb). The shepherd then sheers our wool (Sin) so that he can wash it and make a new robe for us to wear. We are involved (involution) into the water so we can rise to new life (Evolve).

Now that you can see both the process and the secret to unravel the mystery, you should be able to use this information to master what masters you. This is what repentance is all about. Again, repentance is another seed that can then be grown in good soil. If you do not have good soil, your pride will blind you to what I am saying. Either way, Love is the first seed that grows the entire garden. The gardener must still suffer the hoe.

Is that more clearly expressed?

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Can I ask why you're quoting from a very old source that has little basis in historical fact?

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
You say God is incapable, yet you know we can do it in a crude manner on a computer. Why would we limit an obvious God? Didn't he say how it was done?

I didn't say God was incapable, I said that viewing something from the finish to the start makes us think of intelligent design due to the linear path, when the same thing viewed from the start to the finish we only see trillions of random occurrences.

Not only is it probable, but it is entire possible and believable.

I don't know...a being that we were made in his image, that exists outside of our universe, that has the ability to control every particle in our universe by knowing the path through time of each and every particle, who must also do the same for an infinite number of other universes, that loves me and cares for my very soul too.

Ya believable...

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Can I ask why you're quoting from a very old source that has little basis in historical fact?

The context of my words are not equal to the pretext you present. Your premise in the question is incorrect. If you go back and read my comments from the entire thread, watch the accompanying videos and read the links, you will discover that the Bible is the ONLY way to know truth. It holds the highest axioms.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Can I ask why you're quoting from a very old source that has little basis in historical fact?

The context of my words are not equal to the pretext you present. Your premise in the question is incorrect. If you go back and read my comments from the entire thread, watch the accompanying videos and read the links, you will discover that the Bible is the ONLY way to know truth. It holds the highest axioms.

I'm sorry, but the highest axioms (for me anyway) are stated in various speeches by one MT Cicero. You might have heard of him.

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by AngryCymraeg
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Can I ask why you're quoting from a very old source that has little basis in historical fact?

The context of my words are not equal to the pretext you present. Your premise in the question is incorrect. If you go back and read my comments from the entire thread, watch the accompanying videos and read the links, you will discover that the Bible is the ONLY way to know truth. It holds the highest axioms.

I'm sorry, but the highest axioms (for me anyway) are stated in various speeches by one MT Cicero. You might have heard of him.

You mean this Axiom of Cicero?

“There exists one true law, one right reason—conformable to nature, universal, immutable,
eternal — whose commands enjoin virtue, and whose prohibitions banish evil. Whatever she
orders, whatever she forbids, her words are neither impotent among good men, nor are they
potent among the wicked. This law cannot be contradicted by any other law properly so called,
nor be violated in any part, nor be abrogated altogether. Neither the senate nor the people can
deliver us from obedience to this law. She has no need of new interpreters, or new instruments.
She is not one thing at Rome, another at Athens—she is not one thing to–day, and another to–
morrow; but in all nations, and in all times, this law must reign always self–consistent,
immortal, and imperishable. The Sovereign of the Universe, the King of all creatures, God
himself, has given birth, sanction, and publicity to this illimitable law, which man cannot
transgress without counteracting himself—without abjuring his own nature; and by this alone,
without subjecting himself to the severest expiations, can he always avoid what is called
suffering.”


That law is Love.

Buddha knew this law:

Dhammapada (Choices)

We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our
thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
Speak or act with an impure mind
And trouble will follow you
As the wheel follows the ox that draws
the cart.
We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our
thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
Speak or act with a pure mind
And happiness will follow you
As your shadow, unshakable.
"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed
me."
Live with such thoughts and you live in
hate.
"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed
me."
Abandon such thoughts, and live in
love.
In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.

Evolution does NOT equal origin of life. It's all about diversity of species. Belief in creation and evolution is completely acceptable as evolution has nothing to do with origins of life. Define evolution for me if you still disagree.

Originally posted by blahxd67
Evolution does NOT equal origin of life. It's all about diversity of species. Belief in creation and evolution is completely acceptable as evolution has nothing to do with origins of life. Define evolution for me if you still disagree.

If one wants to suggest that we were created by and in the image of a super being that is find, that is what faith is all about. If one wants to suggest this super being created the universe then that really pushes the envelope., and is something an infinite times more powerful, different and removed than one that would have created man, or earth, or even the whole solar system.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by blahxd67
Evolution does NOT equal origin of life. It's all about diversity of species. Belief in creation and evolution is completely acceptable as evolution has nothing to do with origins of life. Define evolution for me if you still disagree.

If one wants to suggest that we were created by and in the image of a super being that is find, that is what faith is all about. If one wants to suggest this super being created the universe then that really pushes the envelope., and is something an infinite times more powerful, different and removed than one that would have created man, or earth, or even the whole solar system.

I am an atheist FYI. God - honestly - is a paradoxical concept. As we learn more about the universe, God is an ever-receding idea that gets smaller and smaller(of course from Neil Degrasse Tyson ).

I love this thread, haven't read all replies but I basically decided the same thing a while ago. i'm big on scientific advances and research as well and have never seen any conflict with religion.

We know evolution is fact basically, there are a lot of things we don't understand completely about evolution but we do have verifiable facts that show animals evolving over time to better survive changing situaitons.

What supreme being would create anything that was not able to evolve and adjust to changes. That would be a death sentence for any creation.

There are holes in evolutionary theory too where as if we did evolve from some kind of primate then why haven't they all evolved. What if Adam and Eve were the first two primates provided whatever they needed from this supreme being to becomg higher level beings as a test.

There are many what if's, it is amazing that so many people that try to show how the scientific process is so superior will go along with any crazy theory that explains the world or conditions around them until either disproven or proven. However they are the people who know everything apparently and decided for everyone that the theory of a supreme being is ignorant or fantasy. Regardless that the supreme being theory would explain our world, galaxy and even universe completely and would be every but as valid as any other scientific theory ever made.

The fact is that no one can disprove nor can they really prove religion just like all theories. That's why it is always expressed as a beliefe and it is every bit as valid an actual scientific theory as anything else ever brought up.

reply to post by seeker1977

There are holes in evolutionary theory too where as if we did evolve from some kind of primate then why haven't they all evolved. What if Adam and Eve were the first two primates provided whatever they needed from this supreme being to becomg higher level beings as a test.

Some of the holes in Evolution as above are actually holes in your understanding. We share a common ancestor with all other primates so if you view that point as a tree trunk then all the various primates branch from there. So the Mountain Gorilla, the Baboon and all other primates have evolved just as much as humans.

Also a misconception is that Evolution = better version, It does not. Evolution is not upgrading it is selecting for advantage to enable the organism enough time to breed and pass any advantage back into the population.

We would make a terrible job of being a Gorilla and fail entirely at being a lion

Star for your post

Originally posted by Xtrozero
If one wants to suggest that we were created by and in the image of a super being that is find, that is what faith is all about. If one wants to suggest this super being created the universe then that really pushes the envelope., and is something an infinite times more powerful, different and removed than one that would have created man, or earth, or even the whole solar system.

If God isn't human, and is probably something you can't even imagine, then why is it so impossible for it to be something infinite times more powerful? Its something out of this world, so we can't really comprehend what it is.

Personally I'm not convinced that he is infinite times more powerful, nor that he created the universe. He certainly can't do everything, not even the bible says that he could.

Originally posted by colin42
Also a misconception is that Evolution = better version, It does not. Evolution is not upgrading it is selecting for advantage to enable the organism enough time to breed and pass any advantage back into the population.

Indeed, although selecting an advantage is sort of a gradual upgrade. Not necessarily a better version, but generally a better version for the situation.

One question though. What is the evidence for evolution?

It is both...

A99

Originally posted by akushla99
It is both...

A99

What is both?

Originally posted by salainen

Originally posted by akushla99
It is both...

A99

What is both?

OP
'Why will people argue creation vs evolution when it is possible to have both?'

Reply
'It is both'

A99

reply to post by salainen

One question though. What is the evidence for evolution?

That is hardly one question and certainly not something that can be explained in one thread let alone one post as well you know.

There is masses of information explaining evolution on the internet alone giving examples and papers. So my answer is look there for the answer to your 'one question'