God loves me.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I have watched those videos in the past, and I must admit they make good arguments, BUT, there are also videos that shows evidence of how the bible has added verses, and was inspired from older mythology and how Jesus has so many parallels to ancient mythological beings.

It seems had to say either way, but I think what is most important is embodying such Joy and Peace NOW. This seems to be most important as happiness (and negativity) tends to be contagious. This is the bigger problem at hand (of suffering).

The next issue would be how controlling some people can be.... and then....

How SOME people look down on all-things-physical (sex, money, etc) and...
how SOME look down on all-things spiritual (God, energy, spirits, etc.)...

It's this "holier-than-thou / better-than-thou" attitude that allows people to believe that they are in some sort of authority to control others.

reply to post by arpgme

I have no doubt that some mythologization (not a word I know) went on around the accounts of the historical Jesus, but the Gospels were written as Apocrypha (to both hide and reveal) and were not meant to be read from an entirely literal perspective to begin with.

The key to understanding Jesus, imho, is to recognize that his mission was to LIberate people in order for them to have an authentic spiritual experience and to enter into the kingdom of heaven even as a present moment experience, via the love of God above all and neighbor as self.

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


The OP's thread is about love and spirituality not biblical accuracy so I created a new thread for this debate.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by sacgamer25

The OP's thread is about love and spirituality not biblical accuracy so I created a new thread for this debate.

The OP's thread about love and spirituality is based on the purported accuracy of the Bible.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

"Our liberation is God's compulsion."
~ C.S. Lewis

Liberation from what, exactly? Ourselves? Our imperfections? Our humanity? Our mortality? What is he trying to liberate us from, besides the freedom to choose our destiny without his approval?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Ignorance, and everything it breeds and begets. It's the freedom to be true to one's self and absolutely authentic, to freely love as we are loved.

There's who we think we are and take ourselves to be and then who we really are when we are reborn to and in God. Jesus' objective was to liberate us from everything that stands in the way of that, so it's the freedom of self re-discovery, where our true self, not unlike him, is love itself.

The only thing that it provokes the ire of, is that very aspect of one's self that needs treating, at the core.

It's a defense of everything that's real and worthwhile in life where it may be said that the best defense is a good offense.

So if it makes you angry or upset, ask yourself where that's coming from, and then learn to laugh at it.

Ignorance, and everything it breeds and begets. It's the freedom to be true to one's self and absolutely authentic, to freely love as we are loved.

In other words, without that 'liberation', the rest of us are ignorant, fake, fraudulent, and deficient in the capacity to love.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
The OP's thread is about love and spirituality not biblical accuracy so I created a new thread for this debate.

Indeed what After Infinity said:

The OP's thread about love and spirituality is based on the purported accuracy of the Bible.

Thanks for starting the thread and linking it for me

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Ignorance, and everything it breeds and begets. It's the freedom to be true to one's self and absolutely authentic, to freely love as we are loved.

In other words, without that 'liberation', the rest of us are ignorant, fake, fraudulent, and deficient in the capacity to love.

To one degree or another, yes, but this ought to make you smile, not frown in chagrin.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Chagrin?! I don't feel ashamed or failed, or view others in this way because they are not "liberated".

This is what I meant when I said I can see through your guise. Your love and care is a wolf in sheep's clothing. You present it in one manner, but underneath is contempt for people undeserving of it. Which I would hope is clear enough now for other readers...

Keep your 'love and care' to yourself and the ones already "liberated", the rest of us do not require it. We can be happy, loving, caring, moral, content and self-discovered without it. Not appreciating this fact when it's so obviously true, is such a detrimental mentality to humanity. If you want more love, look around, it's everywhere.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Well I sure don't feel it from you, but that's ok, as you've pointed out love can be neither foisted upon another, nor required of them.

Love can be rejected.

But you see acceptance is the loving forgiveness, so while you also got my ire up to a degree, hey let's call it a truce or I can even lose if you must have it that way...?

But please don't accuse me of being something that I'm not, when I'm just trying to be as helpful as possible as much as possible and whenever I can and half time I'm talking as much to myself as to anyone.

I know about enemies, but if this is as bad as it gets then there's hope. : )

I was just really wanting to commiserate with my neighbor with this thread, and you know what they say about that that, how if they are kind hearted they will thank you, but if hard hearted they will scorn you.

I've been nice in this thread.

And I do love people, it's true.

I wish you'd cut out the seething contempt towards me though, it's starting to hurt to be honest, and I don't think I deserve it based on all the energy I've put into this (you have no idea);

Ah to each his own and I don't have to be liked by everyone, it's part of the risk I guess.

I do love you though (or will do the work of summoning up the love I should say) in spite of what you might think, and honestly, it doesn't matter how you feel about me because I've done my part. I wish you all the best.

Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I don't hate you. I don't love you. I don't know you well enough for either. I don't give my love away to anyone and everyone. I am not an omnibenevolent being nor have I ever claimed it. I would not have loved Hitler, for instance. This does not mean I lack the capacity to love, or that I do not love, or that I lack love in my life.

I stand by my words, just as you do. I have no regret in saying and meaning them. You being hurt is merely a consequence of me being honest. What's to say I wasn't hurt by yours?

Either way, now that I really understand your position and you understand mine, it would be inappropriate I feel for me to continue. This time, don't ask me more questions unless you want my thoughts.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

We can be happy, loving, caring, moral, content and self-discovered without it. Not appreciating this fact when it's so obviously true, is such a detrimental mentality to humanity. If you want more love, look around, it's everywhere.

All without a god. Amazing, isn't it? I don't need a god to love me. First things first, I must love myself. Then I must love those around me. Then they, hopefully, will love me back. After that, it's a foregone conclusion.

You would think any truly benevolent god would be angling for that plan of action. If all of your children are killing each other over your love, then all the worship in the universe won't matter, because you still failed as a guardian, as a parent, and as a god. If you condemn a single soul because of something you did, knowing what would happen, then you have failed as a guardian, as a parent, and as a god. If you even consider the idea of preparing a place of eternal torment for those who choose to exercise their free will, even knowing that you engineered every step of their demise, you have failed as a guardian, as a parent, and as a god.

I don't need a god to love me. I want my friends to love me. I want someone who is willing to go the extra yard without expecting anything in return, because that shows me they aren't interested in anything but me. And at that point, I will show the same in regard to them.

As for this "God" dude...well, clearly he isn't too concerned over the condition of the planet, or he would have put a stop to it. Something about the whole situation tells me that this has happened before anyway. 1000 years of reigning over earth...what happens after that? Rinse and repeat?

Hell no. I will never throw my soul in with that kind of agenda. I don't care who loves me - if I support that, then being loved is the least of my concerns.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


turn the other cheek

But you see acceptance is the loving forgiveness, so while you also got my ire up to a degree, hey let's call it a truce or I can even lose if you must have it that way...?

love one another..................................................

be like children, who love without fear

your humour is infinite, your patience less so.

i smile while reading your threads, you have a good heart my friend,

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Thanks. What can I say, we all want to look good and avoid suffering ridicule when we risk holding out our maps of reality for the scrutiny of others.

I do honor people's right to freedom and freedom of mind, heart and self expression and that's the way God made it.

Even today when a person I know was put off by someone else's atheism when the other person said that they don't believe in God, I was astonished to find myself defending the atheist and advising my friend that it shouldn't matter, because God can surely take it, and remains the same God whether we believe in him or not and no matter what we might think of God.

In fact the domain of freedom is so vast that there are any number of models or frames of reference by which a person is free to relate to reality, to themselves, others and the world around them, and that's really the beauty of it and it's magnificence so I defend the right of the atheist to be an atheist, while also reserving the right to retain what I think of as the humor of understanding when placed in God as our already always "condition", not to laugh at the atheist, but to remain always there with a hand of friendship and humorous charm, even one that's capable of setting aside his own beliefs for the sake of friendship, love and the brotherhood of man.

"Love one another as I have loved you. They will know you by your love."

If that's the only standard then the Christian thing to do is to love and celebrate the atheists right to choose not to believe in God, without any judgement, because that's just the way God made things and it's the way of the spirit - to be free, even radically free, free to be ourselves and to choose for ourselves who we are being and becoming.

A coercive God is not a loving God. No by the very nature of Godly love, it must and can only function as a non-coercive, invitational only type of deal and people are free to reject it without having to be condemned, and after all if what I believe is true then the Great Work is just as all-inclusive, unconditional and therefore functional, (done for one and all equally) no matter what they believe or "accept". However the great gift of incalculable value, that can only be fully received if freely extended, but unconditionally, and yes I realize there's a bit of a paradox there in the idea of "the Good News" preached, but preach it we too are free to do surely, but it can no longer be preached in any sort of exclusive or conditional manner. Therefore the modern church is in serious trouble unless we are able to more effectively embrace the love of Christ and in the process more effectively and ably extend his love to our fellow man (without even mentioning him if need be).

It's still a "secret" however (unending infinite love of God in Christ) that a loving person wants to share, and there can't be anything wrong with that either, at the other end of the spectrum of absolute freedom of expression, right..? Oh no.. what do I do now?

Acceptance therefore may be the highest form of love.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Acceptance therefore may be the highest form of love.

unconditional love,
the glue that binds the universe together,

love is not won or lost, it is given freely,
it is up to the heart to accept,

a world without love is a world without free will.

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER

So let me get this straight.. my faith in and understanding of the love of God being by it's very nature, or it's only condition, that it be free (unconditional), requires even demands of me, that I accept, defend and honor the atheist's freedom not to believe in God, for the sake of God's love i.e.: that I be willing to bracket or set aside my Christian philosophy as a spoken faith (werd), and silently befriend atheists but with absolutely no hidden agenda or ulterior motive to somehow persuade them of this "reason of Love". And from their POV, anything less just isn't being loving at all to begin with..!

Ha! The humor never ceases!

The love of Christ binds me to absolute unconditional acceptance of my fellow man, and unless he inquires into its true nature and origin, because it's so attractive and inviting, I have nothing to say, and am best to hold my tongue until my heart actually does the thing my tongue wishes to confess, thus communicating it authentically in a way that no words can even begin to express anyway.

How ironic, that I am the one who is bound by my love, and they, absolutely free - is that fair? LOL

Oh dear, it's a double bind, on me - that's funny!

I love the way God (as the logic of Christ) messes with me, teaching me his mysterious ways.. and if it was easy then it wouldn't be worthwhile.

I will do it, yes Lord, because it's in alignment with your love and logic, reason and charm (sense of humor).

May God Bless and Love You All (if you don't mind..),

Love (if you'll accept it..),


NAM

reply to post by NewAgeMan

So let me get this straight.. my faith in and understanding of the love of God being by it's very nature, or it's only condition, that it be free (unconditional), requires even demands of me, that I accept, defend and honor the atheist's freedom not to believe in God, for the sake of God's love i.e.: that I be willing to bracket or set aside my Christian philosophy as a spoken faith (werd), and silently befriend atheists but with absolutely no hidden agenda or ulterior motive to somehow persuade them of this "reason of Love". And from their POV, anything less just isn't being loving at all to begin with..!

love one another as i have loved you,

how you do this in the true spirit of love is your free will,
setting aside any part of you or bracketing your Christian philosophy is not required.

be who you really are, at all times but love unconditionally

speak from the heart with love, remember free will is also a form of love.

my you all feel the love.
remember, love all men but only worship god, as is your faith.



xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Free will is a paradox, because it is both real and planned. If you get irritated, you get angry, you get angry so you get violent. This is the resolution to the paradox. You must understand the root of sin. If you don't completely destroy sin down to its root, it will sprout back up and consume you.

Do you understand "see" the progression of sin? Jesus said turn the other cheek, this is not just turn the other cheek when your brother strikes you physically but verbally as well. Always avoid conflict. Love is unity and conflict is separation. The two are not compatible. This is why you must overcome sin so you can become in unity with love.

When Jesus heals in the bible he says go and sin no more. What we must overcome is imposing our will on the will of others. Sin is when we impose our will on others thus not allowing them freedom of will. We are not permitted to take away the will of others, without facing consequence. Love is the only solution to destroying the sin that imposes our will on others.

We were made both physical and spiritual. Our physical has natural desires, but our spiritual has spiritual desires. Our natural desires our not without their "perceived positive effects", but the "real positive effects" are felt when our spiritual is in harmony with our physical. Without this harmony we cannot satisfy our spirit.

Once you submit the physical to God, letting your desires die as you pursue God, the Holy Spirit will guide you. When you submit to the truth and are ready to overcome sin, the promised spiritual rebirth will come to you. I will stay with you and point you to anything you need, not to prove that I am right, because I could care less about anything but one truth. It is only through rebirth that you can understand your immortality.

I will say it in any terms possible if I believed that would change your heart to follow God in the ways of Jesus Christ. It is impossible for me to leave him out of the equation because it is by his words and teachings that I have received the gift of spiritual rebirth. I am born again, pointed down the path to defeat sin in my life. I have received all the wisdom I need to overcome and I am here to tell you that this wisdom is a free gift.

Just do what Jesus did, walk his walk, talk his talk. It doesn't matter what your opinion of the bible is what he said and how he walked is the truth. Even if it’s a fairytale the words are still the truth. You can find God if you do what Christ said.