Patriots don't secede

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by XxNightAngelusxX

I agree with METACOMET. This sentence kind of discredits your whole argument... to me, anyway.

If tyrants ruin our country, the only way that may be possible for us to save our country is to break off with what little slice of the country we still have some control over. That's why I can't wait to get back home to my Texas.

But you aren't breaking off part of the country, you are LEAVING the country. It will no longer be part of the United States. You will no longer be part of the country. If you oppose who is in political power, you work to get them out of political power, you don't abandon the entire country.

It's no longer a slice of the country, it is its own country and will set up its own government. What happens when you don't like the government it sets up? What if you have zero say in that new government? You don't get to decide to rejoin the United States, you seceded, you are no longer part of the United States. They may choose to take you back, they may say no. You have absolutely no say in it whatsoever, you left.

When you get a divorce and decide you don't like it, you can't just move back in and say "I didn't like it, we're married again". Your ex wife will call the police, have you arrested and get a court order to keep you out. When you leave, you leave. It's over. She may be lonely too and take you back or she may have found someone else and say "get lost". You don't make the decision anymore because you left. You have no say in what she does or where she goes.

If you secede, you are no longer part of this country, you have no say, you have no vote, you have no rights, you are no longer a citizen of the United States.

The only reason any states of America would secede would be if our country was over run, meaning we already LOST our rights and freedoms. That would be if America was ravaged beyond repair, and our only hope to cling to our freedoms would be to break away from the overrunning tyrannial government, then start our own nation.

If WE run the state that we have turned into a country, we will have whatever rights we establish for ourselves.

At that point, we would either have to face all danger by ourselves, or submit to the powers at the downfall of our country.

What would we have to lose?

reply to post by nwtrucker


Did Hitler really commit suicide?

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Newsflash:

You did lose all of your rights and freedoms already.

Marijuana Tax Act 1937
National Firearms Act 1934
Gun Control Act 1968
Substance Control Act 1970
Gun Control Act 2012

reply to post by Golf66


The issue is, if a state chooses to secede, they are NOT Patriots of the United States. They would be patriots to whatever country they become, but they will be traitors to the United States, just as our forefathers were traitors to Great Britan, but Patriots to us.

reply to post by HopSkipJump


Come on down to Canada and elect me as Prime Minister already FFS.

We are the rogue nation, and I could be leading this revolution. The evidence is here.

Who is with me?

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


But there are states talking of seceding now, and the country isn't over run. They will be traitors to the United States, not patriots as they try to claim. Regardless of the reasons for seceding, they are traitors, not patriots.

too many people are throwing terms around and not looking at the meaning of the terms. They look really stupid when they do it and it detracts greatly from their argument.

reply to post by HopSkipJump


Label it treason or anything you want. Ultimately, the real crime is in losing.George Washington committed treason and had far less beefs with the Brits than we do with your political officials and the gov't that not only hasn't fixed it but supports and endorses the current politicos via their unions and ever expanding size/payrolls.

IT'S BROKEN. We see no hope of repair. Without that hope, you going get this kind of response. Inevitable...

reply to post by nwtrucker


I hear the drums of treason beating towards my direction.

reply to post by nwtrucker


If we're going on opinion alone, we lived through george bush, we can live through anything.

reply to post by HopSkipJump


George Bush:

The Al-Qaeda are always finding new ways to control and hurt their citizens, and so are we.

reply to post by streetfightingman


yeah, I tell ya, somebody could write a book on all the mistakes that guy made just in speaking, they could call it "Bushisms"...

oh ... wait...

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
reply to post by Golf66

 

They would be patriots to whatever country they become, but they will be traitors to the United States, just as our forefathers were traitors to Great Britan, but Patriots to us.

You just sort of disagreed with yourself...

They are Patriots.

Just because they no longer want to endure the status quo doesn't change that fact.

It could by those who support them be viewed as the most patriotic act ever to have the balls to declare independence and secede.

Not ideal for the parent nation - patriotic none the less.

This brings to mind the old adage; One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Originally posted by nwtrucker
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Hitler's biggest mistake was declaring war on the U.S., not Russia. With no U.S. to worry about ie, second front, eventually Russia falls....

Japan declared war on the USA, the USA declared war on Japan, then by default they became allies and fought the axis powers. The axis powers were japan, germany, italy and they had silent support by spain, portugal, turkey, romania and perhaps a few others.

Germany only declared war on england, france, russia, greece, etc.

Alliances had been formed BEFORE the war had even started! Once the war had started everything fell into place more or less by japan attacking pearl harbor.

Germany did not officially declare war on the USA before USA declared war on Germany. Big difference although a technicallity.

Russia beat the germans. Britain, France and the USA would have had their hands full and casualties would not have been 10 to 1 as they were. Germany spread too wide, too fast. Germany became its own worst enemy by an enraged politician called hitler.

reply to post by HopSkipJump

When the South seceded, there was a war. They were defeated, then they were accepted back into the union. The Union did not have to accept them back in. Lincoln saw it best that they were accepted back and they had to adhere to the laws that the country had.

Whoa, wait. The South was defeated, yes, but they weren't accepted back, they were FORCED back in at the point of a bayonet. Trying to secede was the cause of the war. It would likely cause another war now because the govt NEEDS territory ~ and if you haven't noticed, they aren't exactly shy about taking other nation's territory and resources, either, to prop up their ponzi scheme a little bit longer.