Patriots don't secede

What is a patriot?

Patriot: supporter of own country: a proud supporter or defender of his or her country and its way of life.

By saying you are a patriot, you are saying that you support and defend your country. Your country is defined by the land area contained within it and the government that regulates it. IF you are a patriot, then you are saying that you support our form of government, our way of life.

Now that doesn't mean that you necessarily support the current leaders or all the decisions that are made, but you DO support the government, afterall, the government is what defines a country. The United States is a country that is defined by the government set forth by the Constitution of the United States that was ratified by the states upon its formation as well as by the states that joined the union afterwards.

What's that mean? It means that the people who live in this country, who are citizens of this country abide by the laws set forth by the government and adhere to the rules that are implied. Does it mean they agree with every law that exists? No. Does it mean they have to adhere to those laws even if they don't agree with them? Yes, it does. If you do not adhere to the laws that exist, you are subject to whatever punishment exists for breaking those laws.

If your government sets out to change laws or create new laws, there is a process that must be gone through in order to do so. You have a say in it. You elect officials to represent you in making these decisions. If the elected official doesn't agree with you personally, then you have the opportunity to help elect a different official in the next election. However, you do not have the "right" to ignore what those officials decide, you do not have the right to rise up against those officials, who were elected by a majority, you do not have the right to do whatever you want to do. The government exists because we chose for it to exist and the majority of the citizens in the country voted for the officials that now hold office.

If you are ranting and raving, wishing to rise up against the government that we, as a majority put into place, you cannot call yourself a patriot because you are NOT supporting the country. The small groups of people in states saying the state wants to secede are not patriots, they are saying they wish to leave the country just because they happen to be in the minority and they aren't "getting their way" right now. The states that disagreed with George Bush's handling of Iraq didn't secede from the Union because of it, they worked to change what was going on. The people that oppose you politically don't try to take away your citizenship or say they are giving up theirs, they work to change things.

There is not one single person out there who has spoken of secession who can rightfully call themselves a patriot. They are the polar opposite of a patriot. A patriot supports his/her country/government regardless of who may be in political power at the time. It's shameful and disgusting that they rant and rave about leaving the United States of America and in the next breath CLAIM to be patriots. They are not the same thing, they are complete opposites and the people doing so are nothing but cowardly morons who don't comprehend the basic knowledge of what their country is.

reply to post by HopSkipJump


Are you mistakenly comparing a blind sheep to a patriot??? WOW!!!! Just WOW!!!

Sounds like you need to actually read the Constitution......

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
A patriot supports his/her country/government regardless of who may be in political power at the time.

Wrong

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

Are you mistakenly comparing a blind sheep to a patriot??? WOW!!!! Just WOW!!!

No, I am not comparing you to a patriot at all, don't worry.

I've read the Constitution many times, however, I doubt you have read it even once in its entirety.

Originally posted by METACOMET

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
A patriot supports his/her country/government regardless of who may be in political power at the time.

Wrong

So Webster's dictionary and our founding fathers were wrong but you are right? It doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by METACOMET

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
A patriot supports his/her country/government regardless of who may be in political power at the time.

Wrong

I would say he is correct in the sense that you support the potential your country has.

He is way wrong when he says to support that government regardless of who it's run by.

Originally posted by HopSkipJump


Now that doesn't mean that you necessarily support the current leaders or all the decisions that are made, but you DO support the government, afterall, the government is what defines a country.

Wrong. The people make the country, not the government.

George Washington, John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Patrick Henry, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, Paul Revere, Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Adams.

I would consider these men Patriots and they seceded from a tyrannical Government.

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by METACOMET

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
A patriot supports his/her country/government regardless of who may be in political power at the time.

Wrong

I would say he is correct in the sense that you support the potential your country has.

He is way wrong when he says to support that government regardless of who it's run by.

But you still support your form of government whether you support the individuals holding office or not. That is the part that so many have difficulty in understanding. They equate the office holders with the government in general and that is NOT the case.

Originally posted by Carreau
George Washington, John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Patrick Henry, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, Paul Revere, Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Adams.

I would consider these men Patriots and they seceded from a tyrannical Government.

They set up the government we now have. They were dedicated to that government, therefore, they are patriots to our government. If you are opposed to the government they set up, then you are not a patriot.

The present office holders do NOT equal the "government". The government is what was set forth by the US Constitution and when you claim to be against the government, you are against the US Constitution.

If you are against someone that holds office, then say you are against someone that holds office, not that you are against the government because the government is a system set up by the US Constitution, not a group of people who happen to hold office.

reply to post by HopSkipJump

I've read the Constitution many times, however, I doubt you have read it even once in its entirety

Read it many times and actually took and oath to uphold it! Unlike you! Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension skills my friend! Obviously, no child left behind forgot all about you!

you secede when you try and try and try and try then try and then try some more and oh yah you try allot more to make things better and THEY want to hold you back from making things better, THEY turn brother against brother, THEY poison you with their GMO foods and medicines that hurt more then help, THEY take and take and take until you have nothing left to give and then put you in jail so they can take some more.

If a violent rebellion rose up against them I would join it but I will not start it. I would prefer to hurt them by leaving them to drown in the wake they have created, when they fall we can rise up and fix what has been so badly broken.

To support someone who is doing wrong makes you no better then them, I do not support the corrupt US government, I do not support the FED and the banksters, I do not support wall street and the greed and corruption that we have to suffer so that they can all live like gods while we suffer.

I will not support them ever, that is why I am a patriot, and I am a texan and I would gladly vote to secede for the corruption and green of the US.

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

I've read the Constitution many times, however, I doubt you have read it even once in its entirety

Read it many times and actually took and oath to uphold it! Unlike you! Perhaps you need to work on your reading comprehension skills my friend! Obviously, no child left behind forgot all about you!

You don't know me, you don't know what part of the military I have been part of and you don't know what I do presently. You don't know how old I am or what my intelligence level may be. However, I am confident enough to say that I believe mine to be superior to yours. Not just my intelligence, but all things I have listed.

Furthermore, if you have actually read the Constitution, you would know good and well that you are wrong and I am right. You are shooting yourself in the foot.

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by METACOMET

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
A patriot supports his/her country/government regardless of who may be in political power at the time.

Wrong

So Webster's dictionary and our founding fathers were wrong but you are right? It doesn't work that way.

So who exactly do you think the founding fathers were revolting against? Their government perhaps?

It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. – Thomas Paine

A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against its government. – Edward Abbey

The right of revolution is an inherent one. When people are oppressed by their government, it is a natural right they enjoy to relieve themselves of oppression, if they are strong enough, whether by withdrawal from it, or by overthrowing it and substituting a government more acceptable. – Ulysses S. Grant

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right – a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit. – Abraham Lincoln, January 12, 1848

Here in America we are descended in spirit from revolutionaries and rebels – men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. – Dwight D. Eisenhower

They set up the government we now have

The government we have now is NOT the government they formed, you definitely have not read the Constitution or you would've known that already.

Originally posted by dc4lifeskater
you secede when you try and try and try and try then try and then try some more and oh yah you try allot more to make things better and THEY want to hold you back from making things better, THEY turn brother against brother, THEY poison you with their GMO foods and medicines that hurt more then help, THEY take and take and take until you have nothing left to give and then put you in jail so they can take some more.

If a violent rebellion rose up against them I would join it but I will not start it. I would prefer to hurt them by leaving them to drown in the wake they have created, when they fall we can rise up and fix what has been so badly broken.

To support someone who is doing wrong makes you no better then them, I do not support the corrupt US government, I do not support the FED and the banksters, I do not support wall street and the greed and corruption that we have to suffer so that they can all live like gods while we suffer.

I will not support them ever, that is why I am a patriot, and I am a texan and I would gladly vote to secede for the corruption and green of the US.

If you would rise up against your form of government and go against the US Constitution, which you would have to do if you rose up against the form of government, you are NOT a patriot, you are a treasonous coward.
The things you have listed are not "the government", they are entities that work within the government. The government is the set of laws and offices laid forth by the Constitution, not the capitalistic groups that try to twist and warp the Constitution. Banks are not government officials, Wall Street is not a government official, GMO foods is not a government official. If you want those things changed, you work within the framework that is set forth, you don't just throw the framework out the window because there are some extremist right wing groups that are trying to control people while working within the framework. You take away their loopholes, you stop them from warping our government, you don't just leave the government behind because you don't agree with some non-government entities may be doing.

You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

Originally posted by Carreau

They set up the government we now have

The government we have now is NOT the government they formed, you definitely have not read the Constitution or you would've known that already.

Since our government is based on the Constitution, yes, it is the government they formed. If YOU read the Constitution, you would know that.

Originally posted by METACOMET


So who exactly do you think the founding fathers were revolting against? Their government perhaps?

They revolted against Great Britan and formed our government based on the Constitution. If you are going against that government, you are going against the Constitution.

Do you not know the difference between companies, offices and "Government" ????

It's patriotic to stand up and dare to say something is broken and to find a way to work together and fix it.

It's spoiled, self-serving and opportunistic to take the ball and try to kick the rest of us out of the park when you don't get your way, despite the fact that all of us paid for the park in blood, sweat and tears and all of us just want to have fun...

...without getting shot.

Boy howdy.....this happens so rarely for me here on ATS.....I do not wish to be rude, but I disagree with absolutely everything you wrote.

The government as it was set up by the founding fathers, and the bastardized, diseased, fascist state we have now, are two completely different things. Therefore, a true patriot would wish to see things rectified, and not go along with the status quo.

To me, a true patriot sees the current state of affairs and desires nothing more than to see it corrected back to its original form.

I don't see where seceeding from a diseased, cancerous mess is unpatriotic, either.