Patriots don't secede

reply to post by frazzle


As far as examples we can begin with Love Canal


Any thoughts?

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
What is a patriot?

Patriot: supporter of own country: a proud supporter or defender of his or her country and its way of life.

An American Patriot supports and defends the Constitutional USA, not an illegal, unconstitutional government.

Then it's a darn good thing we don't have an illegal, unconstitutional government.

If a state secedes, it won't be part of this nation and those who secede with it will not be patriots of this nation, they will be TRAITORS because they left the nation. What in the world is so difficult about this for people to understand??
It's been spelled out for you, referenced by the dictionary itself, spelled out again, yet they're still not getting it. Seriously, what happened to "Deny Ignorance" here??

Originally posted by Honor93
oh puhleeez, that is not what i said and you know it

we do not have a Constitutional government as designed.
we do not have a Republican form of government as stipulated.
we do not have a government of the people, by the people, for the people

without any of the above, we have a DUTY to resolve it by whatever means necessary.

There is no such thing as a "republican form of government". If you are going to attack people and try to insult their intelligence, at least show some of your own while doing so.

Our government is a Democratic Republic. It is OF the people, BY the people and FOR the people. It is based on the US Constitution.

Just because you may not like whatever political parties may be in charge of things at any given time does not mean the form of government has changed.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

So america is primarily for conservatives? Is this the bottom line? Because I see mostly conservatives parroting "constitution" and specifically the "second amendment" almost incessantly. No wonder puritanism is so strong in america, a nany state is looked down upon, john wayne is a hero and everyone should be friendly to jewish zionists.

And liberals are libtards who love change and hate the constitution. I guess if you are not a conservative then you hate america, are lazy, always on welfare, support hamas and iran, must be a closet communist, etc.

Yeah we get the stereotypes.

What about progressives though and the spusa? Why is everyone still stuck in the McCarthy era? No wonder brits quit this site. On one hand they hate guns and on other hand they can't stand right wing extremism. Luckely for you folks I support mild gun control though. But I guess I have to support no infringement at all to be a true american Gijoe hero; bazookas, grenade lanchers, tanks....hell even nukes!

No, those are just the people who scream the loudest and they scream the loudest because they are not capable of carrying on an intelligent conversation. As shown by the election, the majority of Americans are liberal and they elected a Democrat for President. ...

However, I'd go on to say that most Americans are actually moderates who happened to lean to the liberal side in the election as opposed to everyone being a die-hard liberal extremist. The extremists on both sides are what are destroying the country. Presently, the extremist right wing is doing the most damage, but the extremist left wing is quite destructive as well. Those of us who are moderate are growing quite tired of it.

I'm moderate and lean to the left, mostly to the left, but not in any way an extremist. The people who shout the loudest (and say the dumbest things) don't represent America. They are not a cross section, they are merely the people who scream at the top of their voice and want to be seen and heard. Their actions make the rest of us look bad

Originally posted by Kashai
reply to post by frazzle


As far as examples we can begin with Love Canal


Any thoughts?

I would just say "pigs", although pigs are neatniks compared to the money grubbers that infest the two legged types.

Good news for some, bad for others, as far as football goes, the "Patriots" didn't "Succeed" as opposed to an entirely different form of Patriots "seceding".... if it matters

reply to post by ItDepends

thank you for the apology, accepted

explain how you come to the conclusion that we do not operate as a Constitutional Government? Honestly?

if you'd like to discuss the above, please start a thread of your own or link one of the many existing and i'd be happy to participate.

this topic is about patriots seceding correct ?
whatever the reasons be, are theirs to embrace, aren't they ?
whether any other agrees or not is pretty much irrelevant, eh ?

so, what's your point there ??
i'm familiar with the original ... before the change of "for/of" became the standard.
care to expand on your thoughts?

as i've said many times, the US is a union of nation states, not territories subject to DC.
(regardless what DC says or thinks or legislates)

so, if you agree that the Constitution FOR the United States is the supreme law of the land, how can you possibly believe our government is operating within its confines ??

Originally posted by Honor93

ahahahahahahahaha ... aren't you funny

well, since the government we have today is anything BUT a Constitutional or Republican form of government, or a government of the people, by the people, for the people, it then becomes the scripted duty of the people to overturn it and install a new one that suits their needs of the day.
really, you should read MORE than the Constitution, if you've even made it that far

Then you said again:

Originally posted by Honor93
we do not have a Constitutional government as designed.

I stand by my responses to your claims:
......explain how you come to the conclusion that we do not operate as a Constitutional Government? Honestly?

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." — Preamble to the Constitution

Note the emphasis and underlined part(s).
And, furthermore:

The Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the United States. Empowered with the sovereign authority of the people by the framers and the consent of the legislatures of the states, it is the source of all government powers, and also provides important limitations on the government that protect the fundamental rights of United States citizens.

Source - The Constitution of The United States of America

Look, I get it. You have greivances. You don't like what seems to be happening. You need to blame someone or something. However, stating things that are just not true, well, they need to be challenged.

Originally posted by Honor93
if you'd like to discuss the above, please start a thread of your own or link one of the many existing and i'd be happy to participate.

No, no need to start another thread, at least from my perspective.

You ask:
"this topic is about patriots seceding correct ?
so, what's your point there ?? "

And so it is. I responded earlier to the thread owner by stating my belief that there is a difference in using the words Country and Government, and that I can Love my Country, and not Love my Government (i.e. Supreme Court decisions) and still be a Patriot.

So, I'm good.

Peace!! ID

reply to post by frazzle


Honestly, lets take the example of the Ford Pinto a car whose gas tank, was the surface of the trunk. When the vehicle was introduced it was known that, people would end of dead as a result of rear end collisions. Corporate evaluations presented that this was OK, because the number of lawsuits and there payoff would still result in a net profit.

Lido Anthony "Lee" Iacocca retired in 1992 and approved the Ford Pinto for mass production and sale. 27 people were killed as a result of this cars production and sale.

That would constitute a record equivalent to a serial murderer.

Further Reading

Any thoughts?

reply to post by HopSkipJump

realllly ???
any you have the nerve to tell anyone else they're wrong ??
puhleeeez, get a grip.

for your information and anyone else foolish enough to believe your nonsense ... 'republican' as used in the sentence ... republican form of government is an adjective ... not a noun, ie - Republic.

for all intents and purposes, it is the same thing

and no, we do not have a Democratic Republic, that is an oxymoron.
we designed a Constitutional Republic with (supposedly) democratic elections.
[and we've seen how well that's worked, eh?]

yes, it is tiresome to have ppl constantly leading the general public toward their own detriment. please stop.

Patriots seceding is exactly what BUILT this country and until you can/will accept that, you have no point.

And there is also this

Any thoughts?

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

Im not the one displaying partisan hackmanship here...........as you have been through out this entire thread

Oh really? What party? I diss right wingers...democrats and republicans are both right wing in the political spectrum.

Originally posted by HopSkipJump

Originally posted by JuniorBeauchamp

Originally posted by HopSkipJump
What is a patriot?

Patriot: supporter of own country: a proud supporter or defender of his or her country and its way of life.

An American Patriot supports and defends the Constitutional USA, not an illegal, unconstitutional government.

Then it's a darn good thing we don't have an illegal, unconstitutional government.

The government has been illegal and unconstitutional for a long time.

If a state secedes, it won't be part of this nation and those who secede with it will not be patriots of this nation

You must be talking about the Soviet States of Amerika. And you are right, they will be Patriots of the United States of America as laid down by the Declaration of Independence and US Constitution.

The Declaration of Independence not only approves of the dissolving of such political bonds, but demands it:

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

When the trampling of God given rights by the illegal statist government reaches the breaking point, dissolving any bond with the Big Brother Statist enterprise of the Soviet States of Amerika becomes a duty on behalf of liberty.

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by HopSkipJump

 

Are you mistakenly comparing a blind sheep to a patriot??? WOW!!!! Just WOW!!!

Sounds like you need to actually read the Constitution......

edit on 19-1-2013 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)

Seceding from the union is cowardice, running away from a problem instead helping to fix it. All those morons who are making petitions to secede from the union just because a black president has created Obama care (a relatively backward national health care system compared to every other developed nation on earth) is retarded. As a person who lives in a province that almost seceded from Canada, u have no idea how much it would cripple the state as well as turn Americans against the ppl of ur state

Originally posted by Honor93
we designed a Constitutional Republic with (supposedly) democratic elections.
[and we've seen how well that's worked, eh?]

So you just want to complain and be argumentative. You're entitled to your opinion. But the rest of us don't have to like it, or agree with it.
What's your great idea?
Gotta better country you wanna live in?
This is not the Utopia that the communists prophesized....It's better!!
It's not perfect, but we have laws, elections and freedoms that people die for and immigrate here for!

Originally posted by Honor93
Patriots seceding is exactly what BUILT this country and until you can/will accept that, you have no point.

Please stop!! We've had a Revolution. 237 years ago we WON our independence as a Nation from Great Britain. Since then, we had a painful Civil War. Our Constitution allows for States to secede if they should so choose to do so, but, there is a way to do that without further bloodshed. But, if people don't like the way things are, they have choices. I'm not telling anyone what they can or cannot do, just as long as they abide by the Constitution of The United States of America.

Like I said earlier regarding your negative comments, no question, things are not perfect, but they never will be. But just complaining and knit-picking over philosophical/political concepts really doesn't enhance any debate. True, we live in a non-perfect Democracy, but as far as I know, most of the world is envious of our lifestyle and achievements. And yes, I am quite aware of all of the atrocities, and wrongs that we have gone through......but that is the point.....our Liberties have allowed us to change, evolve and fix/change things.

Bottom line, if people want to secede, they have a legal and peaceful way to go about it. And conversely, as in the case of Puerto Rico, who have aspired to become and official State of the Union, they have taken the legal and peaceful steps to begin the process. 'nuff said!!! I seen enough, read enough, contributed enough! C Ya!

Peace!! ID

Ut oh, playing the race card is an example of irrationality.

To suggest that some would secede from the Union offers that like in other countries, out country also has traitors...

Any thoughts?

King George thought the founders to be "traitors" too.

The Declaration of Independence sets down the duty of dissolving political bonds on behalf of liberty in the face of tyranny.

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


Only to replace Taxation without Representation with exception of While male landowners.

Just one example of the unconstitutional and illegal acts of the government, is all the alphabet soup agencies that write laws, calling them regulations, and illegally and unconstitutionally, bypass Congress that according to the US Constitution has the sole authority to write laws.