It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
The overriding purpose of the Framers in guaranteeing the right of the people to keep and bear arms was as a check on the standing army, which the Constitution gave the Congress the power to "raise and support."
As Noah Webster put it in a pamphlet urging ratification of the Constitution, "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe." George Mason remarked to his Virginia delegates regarding the colonies' recent experience with Britain, in which the Monarch's goal had been "to disarm the people; that [that] . . . was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." A widely reprinted article by Tench Coxe, an ally and correspondent of James Madison, described the Second Amendment's overriding goal as a check upon the national government's standing army: As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.
Thus, the well regulated militia necessary to the security of a free state was a militia that might someday fight against a standing army raised and supported by a tyrannical national government. Obviously, for that reason, the Framers did not say "A Militia well regulated by the Congress, being necessary to the security of a free State" -- because a militia so regulated might not be separate enough from, or free enough from, the national government, in the sense of both physical and operational control, to preserve the "security of a free State."
Bold my own emphasis.
It would be incongruous to suppose or suggest the Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment, which were proscriptions on the powers of the national government, simultaneously acted as a grant of power to the national government. Similarly, as to the term "well regulated," it would make no sense to suggest this referred to a grant of "regulation" power to the government (national or state), when the entire purpose of the Bill of Rights was to both declare individual rights and tell the national government where the scope of its enumerated powers ended.
Originally posted by Indigo5
As far as the 2nd Amendment...both the modern world and founders intent speak to a "regulated" right to bear arms.
"Large majorities of Americans agree with the 2008 Supreme Court ruling that the Second Amendment confers an individual right to own guns, and Americans strongly oppose efforts to ban handguns," said Bob Carpenter, vice president of American Viewpoint, the Republican polling firm that joined with Democratic firm Momentum Analysis to conduct the survey.
"But Americans and gun owners feel with equal fervor that government must act to get every single record in the background-check system that belongs there and to ensure that every gun sale includes a background check. Most Americans view these goals, protecting gun rights for the law-abiding and keeping guns from criminals, as compatible."
-- 90 percent of Americans and 90 percent of gun owners support fixing gaps in government databases that are meant to prevent the mentally ill, drug abusers and others from buying guns.
-- 91 percent of Americans and 93 percent of gun owners support requiring federal agencies to share information about suspected dangerous persons or terrorists to prevent them from buying guns.
-- 89 percent of Americans and 89 percent of gun owners support full funding of the law a unanimous Congress passed and President George W. Bush signed after the Virginia Tech shootings to put more records in the background-check database.
-- 86 percent of Americans and 81 percent of gun owners support requiring all gun buyers to pass a background check, no matter where they buy the gun and no matter who they buy it from.
-- 89 percent of Americans and 85 percent of gun owners support a law to require background checks for all guns sold at gun shows.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by macman
While I find the idea that you own firearms as very very hard to be true, your statement that you believe in the 2nd Amendment, yet want gun restrictions is basically one thing in direct contradiction to the other.
And I am not suprised that you have such a monolithic, narrow view of the issue. It is in keeping with your posts.
There are plenty of us out there.
Gabrielle Giffords, husband Mark Kelly launch anti-gun-violence group
Kelly said he and Giffords, both gun owners and Westerners supportive of the Second Amendment, would push for ambitious legislative changes in American’s gun laws: an assault weapons ban, universal background checks to close the “gun show loophole,” and a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines like the one used to kill six people and wound Giffords and 13 others in Tucson.
articles.washingtonpost.com...edit on 16-1-2013 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by beezzer
Originally posted by Indigo5
As far as the 2nd Amendment...both the modern world and founders intent speak to a "regulated" right to bear arms.
Can you point out where my right to bear arms is to be regulated by the government?
The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.
And yet, though this truth would seem so clear, and the importance of a well regulated militia would seem so undeniable, it cannot be disguised, that among the American people there is a growing indifference to any system of militia discipline, and a strong disposition, from a sense of its burthens, to be rid of all regulations. How it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see. There is certainly no small danger, that indifference may lead to disgust, and disgust to contempt; and thus gradually undermine all the protection intended by this clause of our national bill of rights.
Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5
The Huffington Post as your source.
Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5
I did not ask....again. for what the bastardization of the 2nd Amendment is interpreted by the SCOTUS.
Originally posted by macman
The Progressive Courts and enacting of Case Law is what has brought us to the idea that regulations and restrictions are not in direct violation of the 2nd.
Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5
Show me raw data, in total. Not sampling in the form of a poll.
Originally posted by beezzer
Originally posted by Indigo5
As far as the 2nd Amendment...both the modern world and founders intent speak to a "regulated" right to bear arms.
Can you point out where my right to bear arms is to be regulated by the government?
Same link as in my previous post written by Daniel J Schultz
It would be incongruous to suppose or suggest the Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment, which were proscriptions on the powers of the national government, simultaneously acted as a grant of power to the national government. Similarly, as to the term "well regulated," it would make no sense to suggest this referred to a grant of "regulation" power to the government (national or state), when the entire purpose of the Bill of Rights was to both declare individual rights and tell the national government where the scope of its enumerated powers ended.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Originally posted by Indigo5
Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5
Show me raw data, in total. Not sampling in the form of a poll.
Here you go...
Link to raw data
Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Indigo5
WOW, just because I don't agree with your BS pitched, means i have not read it.
Originally posted by macman
The Progressive Courts and enacting of Case Law is what has brought us to the idea that regulations and restrictions are not in direct violation of the 2nd.
.
Originally posted by macman
The Constitution was written and created so anyone.........let me repeat "ANYONE" can read it and understand what is the law.