Obama Administration: We Can and Will Force Christians to Act Against Their Faith

Originally posted by Timing
reply to post by kthxbai

 

But here you say that:

They get the standard plan that everybody gets. They just aren't getting any "special treatment" by getting to pick and choose what they like. Also, it's the employer fighting it, not the employee.

So yes you do agree. They don't get the choice to choose a health care plan that doesn't violate their religious beliefs.

You obviously didn't read any of the links I provided.

::sigh::
It doesn't violate their religious beliefs because it doesn't REQUIRE them to use birth control or get an abortion. Covering something and requiring something are two very, VERY different things.
You can rant and rave until you are blue in the face, but that won't change it. They aren't violating anything because they aren't requiring them to take advantage of what is covered and the cost is no different to them whether it is covered or not. There is no violation of religious beliefs going on.

It's clear you can see the difference and you are just trying to make an issue where there is no issue. You should be ashamed of the behavior your are displaying while professing yourself to be a Christian.
Thou shalt not lie.

reply to post by Timing


You've missed the point entirely. The law doesn't force anyone to use contraceptives or have abortions; it only insures that those who wish to do so have that option.

They tell us "One Nation Under God." and "In God We Trust."

if they break the Constitution so many people are going to be mad at their government.
I would be, because i was always told that the Constitution mattered in the United States.

They always act like the average person will just let it slide because they are too scared of the mighty government.

didnt mean to double post.

reply to post by kthxbai


Again.

The issue is not if they use it or not, it is the fact that they are supporting it by having an insurance plan that covers it.

And chances are they will win.

reply to post by Mad Simian


It's forcing people to support an insurance plan that provides those services.

The issue is not if they use them or not, it's the fact they have no choice to opt-out of an insurance plan that provides these services, therefore they are supporting abortion by funding the insurance company.

When you give money to a charity you are support what the charity does correct? Same thing.

reply to post by Belcastro


"One nation under God" was not added to the Pledge of Allegiance until the McCarthy era and 'In God We Trust' was not added to currency until the American Civil War. In both cases, they were added to differentiate 'us' from the 'heathen' enemy(the communists in the case of the PoA and the southern states in the case of the Civil War).

This is NO surprise to many of us, who have known, since before he was elected the first time, how anti-Christian this person is.

He claims he is a Christian, but he also has shown this to be a lie, in many ways:

1. He vowed to "stand with the Muslims" if things went bad
2. He attended a Muslim school as a child, and was stated to be (by a teacher) an excellent student of Islam.
3. He wears a ring stating that "there is no god but allah".
4. He mocks Christians and the Bible.
5. He holds positions on issues that are not Biblical, such as supporting abortion and homosexuality.
6. He refuses to reference God when it comes to Christian holidays, such as Thanksgiving and Christmas.
7. He spent over twenty years in a church that preached hate.
8. He has stated that the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on earth".
9. He stated, before the United Nations, that, "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.", yet he has no issues with Muslims and others (including himself) slandering Jesus and Christians.
10. His favorite book - Rules for Radicals, by Saul Alinsky - was dedicated to Lucifer: “Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history... the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.” That quote is on the opening page.

So, considering all the facts, it's no real surprise that he's doing this. Since he took office, the push to criminalize any public Christian activity has increased by leaps and bounds.

I can't help but noting, right on the first page, how some, instead of discussing the topic from the OP, want to come in and criticize Christians and Christianity, instead. The hypocrisy is astounding.

Originally posted by orionthehunter
Those in authority can force others to do things against their religious beliefs. However, one day they will have to answer to a higher power. If what they are doing brings down the wrath of God on them, I hope they are far away from me. Obviously doing such things against people trying to follow their religious beliefs is anti-christian in my opinion. If allowed to persist, it would also mean that the US constitution no longer is valid and our government is a joke because it pretends to uphold the constitution but does not. Maybe that's where we are at. At least half the population doesn't even seem to care.

Worse....a lot of people think it's great, because they have such a hatred for anything Christian that they have blinded themselves to the fact that ALL freedom is lost, if such things are allowed. When it is their own belief system that is under attack, because it also doesn't match up to what he believes, then maybe they will figure out the problem. By then, though, it will be too late.

reply to post by Timing


And no citizen has the right to opt out of paying their taxes, even though those taxes go to supporting things that may go against ones religion, like wars that are taking the lives of innocent people for the purpose of corporate gain.

People have the right to legally practice their own religion. They don't have the right to discriminate against female employees based on their personal morality life view.

Hobby Lobby is a huge business employing 1000's of women. The CEO doesn't have the right to deny these women legal medical benefit through their health care package simply because he doesn't approve any more than he can dictate how an employee spends their paycheck.

Contraception is a very real necessity. This is life, not a political game for these women.

A person’s Christianity, the administration argues, cannot be carried out through activities he engages in through an incorporated business.

... at this point, the business is no longer a person's creation or business. at this point that business becomes an extension of the government.

reply to post by Timing


Wrong. It is 'forcing' a corporation to do so. A corporation is not a person and, as such, has no rights as outlined by the Bill of Rights. If, and when, the Greens themselves are paying for this insurance out of their own pockets, then you(and anyone else siding with them) will have reason to argue and I would completely agree with your sentiments.

Christians are supposed to be persecuted by the world.

You'd be violating their religious freedoms by not doing so.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
*snip*
Where this blind hate comes from to all things "corporate" is absolutely baffling. It's obviously not from anyone who has ever been on the Business owner side of life for even a brief time. The ability to selectively choose who should or should not be given Constitutional rights within our nation is really something to see...and it's a day I never thought I'd see come.

It comes from the same place as all the other Socialistic crap they are shoving down our throats. It's no accident that people have been conditioned to hate and distrust large companies.

Originally posted by flice
LAW superseeds religion ALWAYS... otherwise the world would be an even more awful place.

People guided by religion are in a way psychologically sick and brainwashed and cannot be trusted to perform sensible decisions. That christian idiots choose to believe that life begins during conception should not mean that their employees should be subject to the same insane train of thoughts.

If the Hobby Lobby choose to employ people who still have a free choice in their own life, then Hobby Lobby should without a doubt be subject to the laws that safeguard the people that are employed and not some made bull# from 2000 years ago.

Everytime I hear religious people open their mouth about their ignorant beliefs in fairytales and superstition it forces me to instantly vomit.

We really need much much harder laws towards ANY religion to keep the general population safe from their brainwash!

WRONG. The LAW in this country states that the government is NOT ALLOWED to interfere in the free practice of religion. Get it? We use the Constitution, not Sharia.

Plus, this is not the "bash Christianity" thread; it's about a law that violates the highest law of the land, and people's opinions on that. Try sticking to the topic at hand.

reply to post by pheniks


Yes we can is all he knows. Change for the worse.

Originally posted by Druscilla
*snip*
If an employer was Militantly Atheist, would it be within their right to refuse access to any item covered under medical insurance if such procedures were attended to by a Physician of Christian, or any other faith disposition?

No.

Christians can't say what preferred medical access their employees get either.

edit on 31-12-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

Then the government cannot force said Christians to PAY for that medical access. Let those people get their own insurance, some other way. See how that works?

Originally posted by Druscilla
Keep your knees together?
How about we pass a law that forces all boys and men to get a vasectomy where they're only allowed to get it reversed (on their own dime) when they can demonstrate financial responsibility, like, for instance, keeping a current and active accidental pregnancy insurance policy, similar to car insurance, just in case there's an accident?

So, because some women can't control themselves, you think all men should be required to have surgery??? But, you also think that no woman should be "required" to have a baby, right? Oh, the hypocrisy!

Yes, if a woman doesn't want a baby, she should use an aspirin - held between her knees.

Originally posted by kthxbai
*snip*
The United States is governed by the US Constitution, not by any religion. People are free to practice whatever religion they want in their own personal lives but they are not free to force their beliefs on other people. If a person does not want to use birth control, they don't have to. If an individual person doesn't want to go to the doctor, they don't have to. If an individual person is opposed to abortion, they aren't required to first get pregnant, then have an abortion all against their will. However, they also can't prevent others from doing the things they are opposed to just because they don't like it. That's what freedom of religon is all about. YOU can worship in the way you see fit and every other person can worship in the way they see fit. They can't force you to worship a certain way and you can't force them to worship a certain way.

When it moves past the individual status, it's no longer a question of your faith or your practice, it's in the realm of the faith and practice of others. If you own a business that employes other people, it's no longer your personal religion. You are participating in society, not participating as an individual.
*snip*

edit on 31-12-2012 by kthxbai because: changed until to unto

Ah, but that's the rub. A "corporation" is simply a group of PEOPLE that own and operate a business. Those people should not be forced to pay for something that is against their religious beliefs. A company not paying for a baby-killing pill isn't denying anyone their rights; the person that wants to kill their baby can go pay for the pill themselves.

Originally posted by jimmyx
the first amendment is clear....one cannot force others to follow their own religous beliefs. why is this so hard to understand?

Someone not paying for something YOU want doesn't mean they are forcing their religion on you. Why is that so hard to understand?