Russia saying Cold War 2 now on.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
This is a perfect example of coldwar politics;

Putin approves bill banning US adoptions of Russian kids

rt.com...

ALS

Yes! Thats exactly what I was about to say. Tensions will increase due to this banning of adoptions. And if it is a second cold war then I hope it doesnt escalate into actual warfare

reply to post by ausername


You should meet some of the people I know.

Split Infinity

reply to post by Edgar806


There is almost a ZERO% chance that a War of any kind will break out between the U.S. and Russia. This talk is all for the benefit of Putin supporters.

A War did not break out during the height of the Cold War. To think one would break out now is silly.

Split Infinity

I am not sure who is doing well in russia. As far as I can tell my family in moscow they are doing so so and say that the government is too oppressive. My family in Akhtubinsk still have an outhouse. Their professions are doctors, engineers, military and teachers.

I don't know if the lifestyle of the common person is a good measure of how a country is doing.. but it does not seem great as far as my wife and her family have told me.

I don't think the USA or Russia have the ability to go after each other at the moment. The USA is extended to much as it is, and the wealth of Russia is still bottle necked at Putin.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by ausername

 

You should meet some of the people I know.

Split Infinity

You should see some of what I have.

ausername

reply to post by ausername


What you HAVE? What do you have?

Split Infinity

Originally posted by votan

I don't think the USA or Russia have the ability to go after each other at the moment. The USA is extended to much as it is, and the wealth of Russia is still bottle necked at Putin.

True, but dangerous games are afoot, especially in the ME.

Russia wants badly to defeat the USA, and NATO but not directly. Not yet.

Mutually assured destruction prevents direct war, but for decades there has been a covert war, and it has been intense. When you can't confront your enemies directly, then you seek out ways to defeat them covertly. It isn't an accident that freedom and capitalism are under attack in the USA from within, it is in part a result of the covert war, psychological operations, infiltration, subversion, influencing policies, media, "winning the hearts and minds" etc. It has been quite effective, and it is a battle the USA is losing.

Now we're involved in conflicts within the Middle East, with allies for each on opposing sides. The European missile defense shield is going to be a major problem at some point.

Using terrorists as a proxy to attack western interests, Israel and the USA could backfire on the Russians, and is a dangerous strategy....

Direct war can come whether either side wants it or not.

reply to post by votan


It is unfortunate that Putin is creating this false Cold War. After the collapse of the Soviet Union the Russians had very little control over their Nuclear Forces as these forces were now in Independent Nations such as the Ukraine.

The United States spent BILLIONS helping the Russians dismantle Nuclear Warheads in these nations as a way to prevent the possibility of these Warheads from either landing on the Black Market or worse...become possible Radioactive Nightmares as Nuclear Warheads must be constantly serviced as to leave them unattended could result in an accident.

There was great hope back then that these two WWII allies would bond with a new found purpose and friendship. Yeltsin...whether Russians liked or disliked him...understood that together the U.S. and Russia could become a force for stability in the World.

Unfortunately...Putin and his former KGB cronies saw an end to their special benefits and chose to see the backlash of former Soviet Territories now independent nations as they pressed for admittance into NATO as a way to forever remove themselves from Russian Authority...as a threat to Russian Security.

Putin's reaction to this and especially Putin's refusal to join the U.S. plan to build a land based ABM site in Poland which was to use Russian Radar as well as build a new Radar in the Czech Republic backfired on him and Russia to an extent that is still being lamented today.

The U.S. offered to share ABM Tech as well as have Russian advisers on these sites and after Putin raised such a stink the U.S. cancelled the plan. Unfortunate for Russia...during this time the U.S. Military made several major breakthroughs in both Ultra Powerful Long Burn Solid Rocket Fuel, Highly Advanced Super Computer Networked Target and Acquisition Radar and IR-Light Detection...and developed possibly the most powerful and lethal weapons system ever devised...the Direct Energy Weapon Free Electron Laser...FEL...a weapon that will make Nuclear Missiles Obsolete.

The U.S. has decided not to use Land Based ABM Systems with the exception of several based in Alaska and Canada as it plans to install an FEL System in every USN. Carrier as well as on every Aegis Cruiser. The Polish Government was VERY disappointed that the ABM system was not built in Poland but after being assured that the U.S. Military would cover Poland with the Sea Based FEL system...the Polish Leadership was relieved.

Putin has purposely been quiet to the Russian Public about this major loss of Power Sharing that it would have been apart of had it joined the U.S. ABM Initiative. Instead Putin has spoken only of how it's leadership stood up to the United States by refusing to allow an ABM System to be based in Poland.

The loss of this opportunity and the loss of obtaining such tech. is akin to the loss of selling Alaska to the United States.

Split Infinity

reply to post by ausername


More people die in a Month in the U.S. slipping in the Bathroom than have died in over a Decade of War in the Middle East. The effects of Terrorism or the treat of are minimal to the United States.

What happened on 9/11 was the result of poor policies by the Airlines and such a thing will never happen again. The countries of the Middle East are no longer donating much in the way of funding to Terrorist Groups bent on attacking the U.S. or it's interests.

In fact most Middle Eastern Countries have found that to fund such groups is not in their best interests as it has been made VERY CLEAR that if another Terrorist Attack of any real destructive nature were to effect the U.S. Mainland that the United States would enact a Military Policy to remove this threat for ALL TIME.

This would entail the total and complete destruction of any Terrorist Havens, Countries of which they are based and any group or Government that supplies funding. Faced with this stated End Game Policy...Middle Eastern Nations of either Friend or Adversary category have decided it is too great of a risk for them to be involved with any Funding or Supply activities to such groups. They are also aware that should any Terrorist Attack of any nature of the one on 9/11 happen again...both the U.S. President as well as the U.S. Congress would have complete and total support of the American People to enact ANY FORM OF RETRIBUTION that is deemed necessary.

Such Military Action would spell the End of the Middle Eastern Leadership of Nations as it is now known. Such an attack would see a response similar to the response and of the nature of retribution that occurred after the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941.

It would be most likely that the United States would seize the entirety of the Middle East using Ultra-High Technology Weaponry such as Non-Nuclear EMP's as well as Direct Energy Weapons and Cyber Warfare designed to shut the Entire Middle Eastern Economy down without an ability to regain any ability of control with the exception of U.S. Cyber Command's ability to restart communication or anything that needs Electronics or Computers to work. Thus the Nations of the Region would have ZERO ability to trade, engage in Markets or even use a cell phone.

Split Infinity

It would not be the same as the Cold War, mainly because Russia now has a democratic form of government. Or at least they "say" they do, lol. People got behind the Cold War because they were supposedly opposing the evils of Communism, which in itself is a blatant lie, as the USSR never was Communist or Socialist, as they had a dictator and an oppressive government. If you disagree with me, take the time to actually read the works of Marx and Engels, as Socialism is nothing like what modern day Socialist countries claim it to be.

Anyway, a modern-day cold war is either going to be much more dangerous than the previous Cold War, or it is going to be much "safer." The fact is that the actions of both sides back then were relatively predictable, as neither side really wanted war. But now, who knows? We do not even know who is really calling the shots, in Russia, the US, and especially the UN. Global politics has gotten much more confusing, especially considering nothing is made public anymore. At least not the important things, like the driving forces behind decisions, etc.
Does anyone remember the movie Canadian Bacon, with John Candy? lol. Remember the US president tried to get Russia to agree to another cold war? That was great, lol.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I wish I was jaded and ignorant to believe all of that, unfortunately I'm not.

reply to post by ausername


I find it surprising that you would not believe it.

Split Infinity

A very real tool in fighting the cold war as outdated as it may seem.

www.youtube.com...

yes, it is a parable.

I read two pages and nobody noticed or at least nobody pointed out that the OPs link goes to something about Iran and says nothing of a new cold war.

I really hope that this is a case of me being somehow retarded or my Android phone screwing up somehow... But I went to the link, read the article, and skimmed the top headlines and related story sidebar headlines and found nothing about a new coldwar.

Was there something I missed in the article? It talked about some missile being used in Syria which was made in Iran. Not Russia... So that can't be the supposed hint at a cold war. I give up.

I just really hope that many people didn't reply without checking the source link. And the op didn't quote anything from the mystery article, so, am I to presume that the entire discussion up until the end of the second page, is only on the topic of the CONCEPT of a new cold war? Or has everybody been basing their posts on an actual article provided by the op that I cannot access for some reason? Or is it that I do not understand the implications of what was stated in the Iranian missile article?

Seriously, I'm a part of the most heavily programmed population on the planet, and I wanna know what the Hell's going on here! Is reality falling apart before my very eyes?? A little help here? Anybody? Can somebody tell me what I'm looking at here, please?!

Originally posted by 3n19m470
I read two pages and nobody noticed or at least nobody pointed out that the OPs link goes to something about Iran and says nothing of a new cold war.

I really hope that this is a case of me being somehow retarded or my Android phone screwing up somehow... But I went to the link, read the article, and skimmed the top headlines and related story sidebar headlines and found nothing about a new coldwar.

Was there something I missed in the article? It talked about some missile being used in Syria which was made in Iran. Not Russia... So that can't be the supposed hint at a cold war. I give up.

I just really hope that many people didn't reply without checking the source link. And the op didn't quote anything from the mystery article, so, am I to presume that the entire discussion up until the end of the second page, is only on the topic of the CONCEPT of a new cold war? Or has everybody been basing their posts on an actual article provided by the op that I cannot access for some reason? Or is it that I do not understand the implications of what was stated in the Iranian missile article?

Seriously, I'm a part of the most heavily programmed population on the planet, and I wanna know what the Hell's going on here! Is reality falling apart before my very eyes?? A little help here? Anybody? Can somebody tell me what I'm looking at here, please?!

You forget that the middle east is a cold war playground. Just saying....

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Greetings wise wabbit. I may be wrong, but I thought the "world ending" aspect of nukes lied purely in their potential to be detonated in a certain layer of the atmosphere (a high one I believe...), that would somehow cause nuclear winter. I was told that it would only take 8 nukes in the atmosphere to bring about the desired effect. Again, I could be wrong, but I wanted to bring it up in case it was of interest to you.

I would now like to take the opportunity to to express my gratitude and appreciation for your posts.

Thank you.

reply to post by 3n19m470


The U.S. and Soviet Union detonated Hundreds of Multi-megaton Thermonuclear Bombs in the 50's and 60's in atmosphere. 8 Detonations would not be enough to cause Nuclear Winter.

Split Infinity

I don't consider Russia to be my enemy and I certainly have nothing against the Russian people. If there is any enmity it is between two moronic governments that both should be removed from power for not serving the people of their respective nations. Anyone that would even consider using nuclear weapons for any reason is a fool.

This debate always begs the question, what about our unmanned forces, no one
seems to count them as troops, yet i know for a fact they can field armed unmanned
robotic fighters, and that was more than 10 years ago, and if you wonder why they don't
make it very public, look at the reaction to the drones alone, even the unarmed ones,
caused a huge deal here, could you imagine them telling us that they are now going
to field robotic warriors? that would really kick off the paranoia and not without reason
mind you.

Also in response the Russia building shelters, maybe, just maybe instead of it
being a case where Russia is preparing while it seems that the U.S. is not,
I would say there is another explanation that makes a bit more sense, we know
for a fact that the U.S. has the FEL, now with that system deployed properly there
would not be a huge need for bomb shelters, however if Russia could not copy
that tech, they would be in a bad situation, if they were to ever decide to make
a move they would need to be somewhere that our retaliation, nuclear or not,
would not reach them.

To me that seems as plausible and looking at the facts we do know one could
draw that conclusion, its not that i think the U.S. is something special by any
means, even though i do love what this country is suppose to be founded on,
its that i cannot lie to myself and say that a military that has had the funding
ours had for the past 30 some odd years is much more frightening than they
let on....... consider the possibility that they built even 1 satellite with FEL capability,
think about that, if placed in the proper orbit it would give you the ability to
not only strike ground and air targets over a huge swath of land but the ability
to take out other satellites much more quickly and accurately.

First let me say to the OP you are right but (not being mean) welcome late to the party.

This has been going on in ernest since putin first came to power but I suspect it was going quietly longer than that.

Lets look at some chilling facts that did appear in the press abet briefly and downplayed.

The refusal of former soviet states to become independent as of late. Especially if they have some strategic importance. Example the war in chechna.

Does that not sound like the crackdowns in check republic and poland back in the cold war?

Next the DIRECT THREATS TO NATO if we support our new Nato partner poland with a missle defense?
If you do some digging like I have russa fought us and been giving implied threats ever since they first started negociations to join nato.

Notice the outright threats at any missle screen even to defend against rouge states or accidental launches?

The fact putin has rigged the elections of himself and his appointed cronies to a level that makes chicago political machine look honest.

Lastly this very chilling cold war act that restarted soon after putin took over as head of russia.

They have been flying russian military aircraft (bombers, fighters, recon, maritime, and others) up to and intruding (by accident of course) in our northern (alaska/ artic circle) aiirspace.

The brief news reports when they first started told of us even having to sramble aircraft to intercept and escort them. Note this still goes on today but the press seldom reports it.


Now a replay to those who say their military is junk. Not true.

Yes they are not as large and bloated with numbers over technology as they used to be.

But they have scrapped most of the old and obsolete equipment, kept the best and renforced them with updates.

In other words slim down to the best they got.

Think I am nieve?

Let me give one example to prove my point.

The submarine force.

Yes they have docked hundreds of nuc boats. But if one chooses to look closely the facts are chilling.
They dumped their 50-90 boats that were more numbers than quality.
They kept their top boats (example alfas, aluka, oscars, typhoons) , the quiet diesel/electric boats (ironically that are quieter than our nuc's and harder to detect), and developing upgrades.

The scary part is we have been giving them money and technical aid to scrap and protect the nuclear material from those boats.
Really folks do you REALLY THINK the money they saved by getting it from us went back to the public????

Just like the chinese with russia we risk having another pearl harbor and the costly learning curve/build up to defeat them if war comes.

The difference is the weapons, economic mess, lack of any major manufacturing capability, reducing our own mining of natural resorces, and lastly (and most tragic) the WILL TO FACE THEM AND DO WHAT IS NECESSARY.

My fear is we will be forced either by russia or china to relive history that has happened to other great nations and the downfall they went though. The greeks, the romans, the french, the engilish, and about any older nations on this planet.

Yes they grew back but do we really need to repeat their mistakes or cant we learn for them and ours from the past?

In short remember this quote.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it