Russia saying Cold War 2 now on.

Interesting thread, S&F.

Having read through a few replies there are issues I'd like to investigate further, and will be using some of them in ongoing support of other research..

Thanks to all who contributed with knowledge of the various players & economic facts.

FITO.

This new cold war is simply Russia pushing the US over the fiscal cliff.

We all know that the US economy is not sustainable. Russia knows this as does China.

Look at the world as a whole. Many countries are shifting to a regional mentality. African Nations have banded together, the Pacific Nations are banding together and so to are Europe and South America.

Everyone can plainly see that we will soon loose the World's Police Force due to Economic melt down and are preparing for a more regional outlook.

P

I highly doubt that anyone on both sides would survive another cold war. The devastation after way would be disastrous, economically and socialy. I think we've got to consider the third world war the "end of the world", A stage where humans are going to go back in time, Perhaps to a time when swords were used for war. Just as God did with previous nations, He destroyed them and replaced them, But I know for that that this is the last nation on earth.

Putin has always hated U.S.'s intrusions with Russia. That's why there is conflict. I don't think this will lead to another cold war. Even if it were to happen, what would they even fight about? Sure spying will happen, but hey, spying on countries has always happened.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by Militarywarfare

 

Don't bother slamming the Russians for inventiveness,bravery or intelligence. They are all of these and more.
As I have previously stated the cold war never ended it was enjoined by china and Iran when Russia took a break to regroup.China has been having an inflationary growth I wonder how long they can sustain it with ghost cities being built everywhere?Maybe that is why they are demanding more fishing rights in the Pacific?
Iran will self implode in time.
We know Putin and he knows us.He must be laughing real hard as we struggle for our very identity in the US under a socialist leader.
The wolves smell the blood of our wounds and are drawn in by it.

Little red riding hood was never like this eh? Hang on, it only get's worse from here unless.................

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by MrSpad
It never really ended despite attempts to reset it here and there. The difference is the Cold War with the Soviets was between two fairly even rivals and their allies all over the planet. Russia is a shell of of what it was in the Soviet days and mostly just trying to not to lose any more influece in its former Soviet states that are being gobbled up by NATO and China. Russia does not want accept its postition as regional power that is only significant because of it large amount of nukes. I still expect that if China manages to survive all the challenges that is has to face and comes through down the road as true world power you will Russia join NATO to survive.

not so fast...their massive gas reserves have been sold to europe for a while now...and ....they are a net exporter of oil....they are not as broken down as you think

Russia has a large broken down military and a huge resource hungry China on its border. It also has a large unhappy muslim population that has been trying to break away. If somebody were to arm and support them....

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by MrSpad
It never really ended despite attempts to reset it here and there. The difference is the Cold War with the Soviets was between two fairly even rivals and their allies all over the planet. Russia is a shell of of what it was in the Soviet days and mostly just trying to not to lose any more influece in its former Soviet states that are being gobbled up by NATO and China. Russia does not want accept its postition as regional power that is only significant because of it large amount of nukes. I still expect that if China manages to survive all the challenges that is has to face and comes through down the road as true world power you will Russia join NATO to survive.

not so fast...their massive gas reserves have been sold to europe for a while now...and ....they are a net exporter of oil....they are not as broken down as you think

Russia has a large broken down military and a huge resource hungry China on its border. It also has a large unhappy muslim population that has been trying to break away. If somebody were to arm and support them....

If you have learned nothing from the cold war learn this. Sometimes a warm female full of affection is worth more than what you have to offer. Of course there are lines that will never be crossed for some.

A very scary scenario. Carl Sagan once said that 200 nuclear warheads could effectively destroy the United States, and to be sure the Russians still have several thousand pointed at us. And vice versa. There wont be a winner in that war.

Originally posted by openminded2011
A very scary scenario. Carl Sagan once said that 200 nuclear warheads could effectively destroy the United States, and to be sure the Russians still have several thousand pointed at us. And vice versa. There wont be a winner in that war.

I'm not sure they are aimed, are they? I know Moscow and Washington agreed years back to disengage their Nuclear Forces in so far as pointing everything out into the middle of the Ocean in a 'Fail Safe' condition so a screw up just made a big hole in the water and not World War III by accident. Heck..that could have changed?

I had this laying around from past threads.... Not the first one I've been in where people talk Russia down like they're little kids and we're Daddy able to spank them or something. The arrogance is something I'll never grasp...it's self defeating and it's GOT to be ugly when seen by the rest of the world. ???



I don't have the specific link because that is old but it's out of the Arms Control reports held at the Federation of American Scientists (fas.org). They are pretty well respected by all parties as being accurate for their data and compilation of stats. Anyway, yes.. You're right. Russia has plenty. With the new Submarine fleet, new Bomber fleet and new ICBM well into final phases of testing to deployment, I'd say there is no shortage of getting them over to us either. Back to the cold again, it seems

USA see China as a threat, Russia see them as a thread and on their border.

What if Russia and the USA are really allies and this cold war was agame.

USA puts rockets near Russia and Russia saber rattle but do nothing, but its actually China they are surrounding.

China is a threat to everyone and the Russians have stated this below and know China to be their biggest threat.

kavkazcenter.com...

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by openminded2011
A very scary scenario. Carl Sagan once said that 200 nuclear warheads could effectively destroy the United States, and to be sure the Russians still have several thousand pointed at us. And vice versa. There wont be a winner in that war.

I'm not sure they are aimed, are they? I know Moscow and Washington agreed years back to disengage their Nuclear Forces in so far as pointing everything out into the middle of the Ocean in a 'Fail Safe' condition so a screw up just made a big hole in the water and not World War III by accident. Heck..that could have changed?

I had this laying around from past threads.... Not the first one I've been in where people talk Russia down like they're little kids and we're Daddy able to spank them or something. The arrogance is something I'll never grasp...it's self defeating and it's GOT to be ugly when seen by the rest of the world. ???

I don't have the specific link because that is old but it's out of the Arms Control reports held at the Federation of American Scientists (fas.org). They are pretty well respected by all parties as being accurate for their data and compilation of stats. Anyway, yes.. You're right. Russia has plenty. With the new Submarine fleet, new Bomber fleet and new ICBM well into final phases of testing to deployment, I'd say there is no shortage of getting them over to us either. Back to the cold again, it seems

edit on 29-12-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: minor correction. / adjustment to end paragraph

There are weapons far more powerful than nuclear weapons and both Americans and Russians are fully aware of that. The question is do we really, really want to go there? I hope not as nukes are bad enough for this world as it is.

reply to post by Alternative4u


The nice thing about "cold wars" is there's nary a shot fired. Just a lot of innovation and spending. Doesn't leave much room for the b.s. Wars we like to spring off on behalf of profiteers if we're serious about keeping up with the Joneses (or whatever Ivan's version of Jones is.)

The really good news is, Clancy can go back to US/Russia novels!

reply to post by Mr. D

No kidding on there being worse things than Nukes. Contrary to popular myth and assumptions...as it sounds like you also know...Nukes aren't the world enders the Media and Hollywood have made them out to be. After all, if 2,053 Nuclear Detonations thus far to date haven't killed us....the hype is overblown unless we're UNDER one of them, right?



What you say is what I try hard not to think about. Yeah... There is worse... So much much worse. At least a nuclear weapon will all be over in a millisecond for most people directly effected in a full blown war. I'll take that to some of what I believe your thinking about ...and I'd take it by choice. No question.

The U.S. and Russia have both spent TOO MANY decades perfecting every more horrible ways to end human lives. We can't afford to go to war....Nukes wouldn't kill the planet but by the end? How much would we consider worth living for?

Russia's strength has always been protecting itself from foreign invaders. As far as going out and fighting on foreign soil, they've never been a the USA.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by Militarywarfare

 

...
.He must be laughing real hard as we struggle for our very identity in the US under a socialist leader.
...

Socialist president???? HAH!

Ask any actual Socialist if Obama is one of them... they'll laugh in your face much harder than Putin might at our struggles.

reply to post by broctune

Oh Really? So that whole Eastern Europe thing for 50 years was a big misunderstanding, right?

The invasion of Hungary in 1956?

The invasion of Czechoslovakia. in 1968?

The invasion of Afghanistan in 1979?

Of course.. it's ONLY the United States that goes and moves military forces into other nations and occupies them...right? We must have nearly invented the idea to hear some expound on our faults.

Err.... The Cold War was a *TWO* sided game that required participation by both players. It's never warmed up all THAT much ...and the guy sitting there now? Well he was an Officer in the Soviet Foreign Intelligence Service during the Afghan Invasion and subsuquent war. I'm not sure how long, if at all Putin was IN Afghanistan. KGB records aren't likely to detail assignments of their Officers like that, especially that one. We aren't by ANY means alone in Military misadventure though.

reply to post by Alternative4u


Hard Liners in Russia and specifically Putin are attempting to draw attention away from the poor economic condition of their country by sparking anti-American resentment that is directed to the older former Communist supporting generation.

In reality...Russia's Military is a JOKE. The U.S. has no intention of starting another Cold War and the American response to Putin's lackeys has been to ignore or laugh off the rhetoric. Russia is not in any condition to be making any serious threats against the United States.

Split Infinity

The cold war never ended, and by the way, it isn't cold anymore.

In fact, it is getting hot.

reply to post by ausername


It is only getting Hot in the mind of Putin. The reality is that Russia does not represent much of a threat to the United States.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by ausername

 

It is only getting Hot in the mind of Putin. The reality is that Russia does not represent much of a threat to the United States.

They may not be a direct threat, but their radical allies are. They have their proxies and covert activities, and so does the USA... Problem is, the Russian proxies are far more dangerous and evil.