Jesus spent 40 days in the Desert. I only spent 21, but here's what began to happen;

reply to post by Mickles

Like I said I meant no disrespect, but why you linked Jesus' time in the desert to your time in the wilderness is strange as it has absolutely no connection whatsoever.

Wilderness is wilderness. It was the intention that counted. I don't understand how you missed the connection when there were various historic individuals who sought to repeat Jesus' time in the wilderness, and since there was no desert at hand, they hit the woods, and the time there was just as fruitful.

You've entirely missed the point here. Would you like me to provide you with various sources where woods based wilderness was considered justified by various denominations?


reply to post by IandEye

so fasting has taught you sarcasm?

No, I knew about sarcasm prior to fasting.

its nice that you has an experience that opened you up like that. however, without proper spiritual guidance, you will fall in love with your experiences....which themselves are just illusory constructs of the limited human mind.

Yes I understand this. I've seen that I am not the mind/ego complex, not the body, neti neti, letting go, awareness, observing the observer, etc etc. I also have guidance by an old E.O. Hermit. I comprehend,illusuory nature of temporal existence, etc etc. Time spent in the wilderness helps to deepen these understandings and to allow for the Absolute to reveal itself.

as I said earlier: good luck- you're gonna need it.

I don't think luck has anything to do with it. I think it has to do with wisdom, understanding, grace, and practice.

reply to post by Mickles


It's a piece of writing. It was metaphoric. As a writer, I got it - why can't others just accept it as that?

Originally posted by Mickles

Like I said I meant no disrespect, but why you linked Jesus' time in the desert to your time in the wilderness is strange as it has absolutely no connection whatsoever.

edit on 30-12-2012 by Mickles because: (no reason given)

I have spent time fasting in a desert. I had some amazing experiences!

So, I'm going to link my time in a desert to Jesus's time in a desert and insodoing I claim the authority to declare that there is now an official connection between a wilderness and a desert.

So there.

HaHo(I Greet you),
Really something that you decided to take the time to recognize everything and try to find a understanding just for you. Very personal and thanks for sharing, I too fast and been doing that four times a year since i was 12 years old.
When you take nothing for granted and realize just how unique each and everyone of us really are, then keep it simple and personal. After everything is said and done, its just you and the time you spend living and learning and grow from the inside out. Sometimes we have to really take a good look at ourselves and its only us who can decide whats best for our own well being.
I hope you keep on and soon life will have more meaning. At least you try!

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by old_god

 

I have gone 9 days without food. It was NOT PLEASANT! I drank a lot of water and I can tell you it is EXTREMELY PAINFUL to swallow or chew after 9 days of not doing so. Your throat feels like it is swallowing Glass Shards. I made the mistake of eating a Ham Sandwich with a pickle which I immediately threw up.

I should have opted for the Oatmeal.

As far as the mind being clear and focused after fasting...this is BULL$#!%! After a long period of fasting a person is not thinking clearly nor does a person have any thoughts on their mind other than how sick they are.

Split Infinity

I am sorry it was unpleasant for you, however for me, it was a spiritually enlightening experience...probably a lot to do with the fact that I was fasting according to a specific routine however long I was without food, it was in a controlled manner.

Even that is enough to at least teach me that there are people who are living day at a time wondering how they will get enough food to feed themselves or their families, but...people do adapt and survive, that is my point.

What you experienced was unpleasant and obviously and extreme point and not what I was referring to.

reply to post by dominicus


You must've missed where I said I've spent far longer then 21 days in the woods. See I do it for things like work and necessity but you know hipsters have a sense of entitlement for doing things that people do normally. Keep selling your 'stories' you may get a book deal out of it, also isn't the point of reaching 'spiritual' enlightenment not to 'toot' your own horn.... Hmmmmm I suppose you wouldn't know anything about that either. Like I said before I remember my first beer.

reply to post by NoJoker13

You must've missed where I said I've spent far longer then 21 days in the woods. See I do it for things like work and necessity

You can spend your entire life in the "woods" as part of a "job" and miss the point entirely. I also know rangers, trackers, and Alaskan pioneers livin off the land spending all their time mentally with always having to "do", but completely missing out on what it is to "Be."

It's the intention, wisdom, knowledge, practice, and grace that you use and go into the wilderness, that changes you, yet you seemed to have missed that part and ranted for pages about some imaginary malnutrition.

but you know hipsters have a sense of entitlement for doing things that people do normally.

Not knowing what a hipster is, I believe itself qualifies me as not being one, so this statement of yours is more assumption, as your slowly running out of options for attack. Now we seem to be entering kindergarten territory for the sake of name calling. Your hand is showing!!!

Keep selling your 'stories' you may get a book deal out of it,

I'm here to destroy the bias bubbles that people live in, projecting false/fake assumptions over a reality that itself is inherently naked and unknown. I could care less about book deals.

also isn't the point of reaching 'spiritual' enlightenment not to 'toot' your own horn.... Hmmmmm

I never said I was enlightened, I have much work to go, and I have glimpsed that enlightenment is possible and very simple actually, with various ways "there".You've instead stirred up and inflamed the fire in my heart to defend to the death, the truth of this post, as it was initially written from a very deep, personal, and honest space, and to see a ravaging ego-troll come in here with all sorts of know-it-all false assumptions and try to ruin it for everyone, is the purpose of my philosophical defense.

I suppose you wouldn't know anything about that either.

Doesn't matter what I say to you, It's your own little subjective bias bubble you live in where only you believe that you know it all and have it figured out, spouting your so called trash/assumptions, before you even ask the source if they are true.

Probably one of the biggest things I've come to learn from my time in the wilderness, insights in meditations, and glimpses of the Absolute, is that the problems of the world we live in, are caused by Ego, by the very subjective bias bubble that you came in here and showed so poignantly.

The war is between the Head and the Heart. This post and defense of it, was all heart based and honest. While your troll-based assumptions were all head based illusions.

Either way, I Love you (because I know the real you), and know Physical death to be the great equalizer which will reveal all things.

Nice thread. I've went into the mountains of W.Va. and done this thing many times over my life and you descibe it very accurately. It is sublime. It does make you see how corrupt everything really is. I have to get away and do this atleast a couple times a year or I'll go crazy. Now, instead of 2-3 weeks, I go for a week or so because of my wife and kids. I had a friend track me down once, he pulled up on his 4-wheeler and sat with me by the fire. Everytime his phone would ring, and it rang a lot, I would cringe. I asked him how he could stand it but he couldn't give me a good answer. I wanted to throw it in the creek by my campsite.

I've always told people who say they've had enough, or just can't figure out which way to go, -I recomend just this. Go into the wilderness alone, no phones, no nothing. Stay there 'til you figure it out. I think if most people would go back to a simpler way of life, the world would be a much better place. I tell my wife all the time that we need to go back to the 'old way' of living. Society sucks and I want no part of it. Star & flag for you!

Well, TPTB had better get busy making wilderness illegal or they might end up with citizens who can't be controlled by the economy and by the dominant materialistic paradigm! 'King Herod' wouldn't like that one bit...

reply to post by dominicus


I'm sure you know what the 'point' is, I'm an avid hiker and tracker and have a more personal relationship with the area then you'll ever achieve in your '21' days or 21 years for that matter. Again there you go tooting your horn I'm sure your SOOOO spiritually enlightened. I think you miss the point that you seem to think you achieved 'greatness' from a quick trip to the woods, you've achieved nothing except for a sense of self pride that seems to be running rampant in the USA now a days. Enjoy your new 'sense' of self I'm sure it's everything you hoped it to be, as I said before truth is in the eye of the beholder, so is beauty which I'm sure you took all of it in, in 21 days. Again my advice keep your personal 'enlightenment' to yourself, because otherwise is sounds like your being a pretentious snob, but hey you know you've 'SEEN' far more then I have right? The true definition of ignorance.

reply to post by NoJoker13


I replied a few pages back to the OP, once again I really appreciate you sharing your personal experience here with all of us.

I wanted to post again to make sure that the OP is aware that I (and I'm sure many others) realize that NoJoker13 is blurring the line between skepticism and antagonization. It is one thing to question someone else's experience when done in the right spirit and with positive energy, and it is another to "troll." The OP has not made any controversial claims, which is why I am shocked that his post has garnered this much negative energy.

Give it a rest, and attempt to contribute in a positive way. I managed to, and I'm an asshat

It would do us all well to unplug the tv, turn off the radio. Log off and step out. Just be.

reply to post by NoJoker13

I'm sure you know what the 'point' is, I'm an avid hiker and tracker and have a more personal relationship with the area then you'll ever achieve in your '21' days or 21 years for that matter.

Cool, I'm happy for you then. Perhaps you can start a thread of what you've learned while out in the wilderness. I'll star and flag it. Perhaps I should change the title to my thread as "Joker13 spent 21 years in the wilderness, I only spent 21 days, but here's what began to happen!" You're my hero!!!

By the way. Here's a whole thread specifically devoted to you:
Why do People Assume One to be Egotistical & Pretentious, if they've had various Spiritual Experiences?

Again there you go tooting your horn I'm sure your SOOOO spiritually enlightened. I think you miss the point that you seem to think you achieved 'greatness' from a quick trip to the woods, you've achieved nothing except for a sense of self pride that seems to be running rampant in the USA now a days.

Yeah, everything you say is exactly what I've done and how I really am. How did you figure me out so well? You should run for President!!!

Enjoy your new 'sense' of self I'm sure it's everything you hoped it to be, as I said before truth is in the eye of the beholder, so is beauty which I'm sure you took all of it in, in 21 days.

If you understood Socratic, Buddhist, and Nondual Philosophy (sadly you don't) then you'd know that when the eye of the beholder is seen as an Illusion, then Absolute Truth reveals itself. That's ok though. Your the know it all anyway, so I'm sure you knew this.

Again my advice keep your personal 'enlightenment' to yourself, because otherwise is sounds like your being a pretentious snob, but hey you know you've 'SEEN' far more then I have right?

Let's make a deal then. I'll stop posting about Spiritual experiences which I have had, if you stop attacking, trolling, and calling others "pretentious snobs", without personally knowing these people. But hey, you're mister know it all, so it's impossible for you not troll right?

The true definition of ignorance.

Yeah you would know, considering your the only one on this thread with a negative agenda trying to keep other's out of the wilderness to find themselves, God, Being, Truth. I will pray for you.


reply to post by anon29

I wanted to post again to make sure that the OP is aware that I (and I'm sure many others) realize that NoJoker13 is blurring the line between skepticism and antagonization.

It's sad to see his replies. Make's one wonder if he's a Gov't schill sent to keep people from finding themselves. I'm done with him anyway, and will instead pray for his ignorance to be lifted and be replaced w/ Love & empathy.

Give it a rest, and attempt to contribute in a positive way. I managed to, and I'm an asshat

Lol, well thanks for setting aside your asshatness for the sake of this thread. I appreciate that. Star for you and thumbs up

Yet you still come back to your savior to accept that which gives you life and safety. If not, you would still be in the wilderness..

Try living like that on a daily bases.. Do not have to look farther then those on the other side of the planet or around a corner you live at. Nice place to visit but I doubt you would live like that.. if so. you would not be back using your computer explaining your experiences..

Originally posted by runningwithnopants
It would do us all well to unplug the tv, turn off the radio. Log off and step out. Just be.

Lead by example.. So many talk the talk.. but are unwilling to walk the talk.

reply to post by old_god


My point is that not eating during daylight only to eat at night is not fasting. Because of my sometimes JOB I am used to not eating for long periods of time. I am used to it but for others even to not eat for a day or so will cause them to be disoriented and unable to think.

Fasting has been used for centuries as a way to place a person in a highly suggestive state of mind. This explains many visions of GOD or enlightenment. What you have done would not create this state.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by WhereIsTheBatman

Originally posted by olaru12

So a man tells of his experience alone in the woods and many ATS members feel the need to denigrate, marginalize and basically insult him for even trying to seek a broader understanding of the world.

ATS use to be a place of discussion; now the trolls have taken over and no one cares!

edit on 27-12-2012 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

My thoughts exactly.

the thread title is "Jesus spent 40 days in the desert, I only spent 21 but...."
the OP is not Jesus, nor was he in the desert.
did facts lose their importance on ATS as well?

as i think another poster said: if he'd written a title of "I spent 21 days in the woods and here's what I learned" there wouldn't be anything to criticize yet the OP made the obvious choice to throw "Jesus" and the "desert" in his title ,therefore opening himself up to ridicule. whether consciously or unconsciously, the OP thinks he attained a spiritual level that's high, though it's just new to him.
if he had attained true enlightenment why would he be posting on the internet?

reply to post by IandEye

the thread title is "Jesus spent 40 days in the desert, I only spent 21 but...." the OP is not Jesus, nor was he in the desert. did facts lose their importance on ATS as well?

as i think another poster said: if he'd written a title of "I spent 21 days in the woods and here's what I learned" there wouldn't be anything to criticize yet the OP made the obvious choice to throw "Jesus" and the "desert" in his title ,

Perhaps you missed the part where I did not have access to a desert, and that I specifically went into the wilderness because I am a Christian and was inspired by Jesus' time there. Doesn't matter if it's woods or desert, if your going with the intention of facing your self/ego/God whatever, ...your going to experience certain things regardless.

therefore opening himself up to ridicule.

You've entirely missed the point. No matter where you go in solitude, it's still you facing yourself and facing the things of solitude. Doesnt matter if its desert, woods, north pole, jungle ......

whether consciously or unconsciously, the OP thinks he attained a spiritual level that's high, though it's just new to him.

I don't think I've attained anything other then gotten a few insights, openings, and understandings that I otherwise would not have gotten if I didn't go.

Note that I did not write anywhere that I am now ENlightened and Holier than thou. Neither are these things new, as I've been working on internal states, ego understanding, and various insights for 10 years now.

if he had attained true enlightenment why would he be posting on the internet?

I would hope that someone who attains ENlightenment would post on the Internet and tell other's about it, showing them their way there. I know I certainly would. We be selfish and not share such an awesome thing?

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by IandEye

 

the thread title is "Jesus spent 40 days in the desert, I only spent 21 but...." the OP is not Jesus, nor was he in the desert. did facts lose their importance on ATS as well?

as i think another poster said: if he'd written a title of "I spent 21 days in the woods and here's what I learned" there wouldn't be anything to criticize yet the OP made the obvious choice to throw "Jesus" and the "desert" in his title ,

Perhaps you missed the part where I did not have access to a desert, and that I specifically went into the wilderness because I am a Christian and was inspired by Jesus' time there. Doesn't matter if it's woods or desert, if your going with the intention of facing your self/ego/God whatever, ...your going to experience certain things regardless.

therefore opening himself up to ridicule.

You've entirely missed the point. No matter where you go in solitude, it's still you facing yourself and facing the things of solitude. Doesnt matter if its desert, woods, north pole, jungle ......

whether consciously or unconsciously, the OP thinks he attained a spiritual level that's high, though it's just new to him.

I don't think I've attained anything other then gotten a few insights, openings, and understandings that I otherwise would not have gotten if I didn't go.

Note that I did not write anywhere that I am now ENlightened and Holier than thou. Neither are these things new, as I've been working on internal states, ego understanding, and various insights for 10 years now.

if he had attained true enlightenment why would he be posting on the internet?

I would hope that someone who attains ENlightenment would post on the Internet and tell other's about it, showing them their way there. I know I certainly would. We be selfish and not share such an awesome thing?

there is a zen story that goes like this:
2 monks are walking in a forest and the senior monk falls into a hole. he cries "help me! help me!". so the junior monks jumps down into the hole and the senior monk climbs out and says "thank you".

you're right that it doesn't matter where you go that there you are, whether it be in nature, a jail cell, or the womb. if that was your point you should have re-titled the thread to not suggest you were living in the desert which, honestly, is much more uninhabitable than the forest. way more. 100mph winds, 120 degree days, no food or water growing, clay that sucks the moisture from your very body, and so on. saying anything about Jesus and/or the desert in comparison to your experience is really kind of funny, like a kid with a cowboy hat saying he's John Wayne or something.

you can fast in society too- ive done it for weeks at a time while working as a carpenter at Habitat For Humanity. give it a try sometime if you think you can handle being weak in front of strangers.

and no, I'm not comparing myself to Jesus. I think he's the Mickey Mouse of the religious world, with stories built upon stories. wasn't the New Testament written 100 years after Jesus died, with the apostles names given to the books to give them credence? as I understand it from my BA in Religious Studies, the books of the NT do not contain a single eye witness account to the life of Jesus.

when you figure out that Zen koan above, let us know. thanks.

reply to post by IandEye

there is a zen story that goes like this: 2 monks are walking in a forest and the senior monk falls into a hole. he cries "help me! help me!". so the junior monks jumps down into the hole and the senior monk climbs out and says "thank you".

What is there to figure out and answer? The answer itself is a direct experience of the Absolute/Satori. I've had those various glimpses through various koans and seen the ineffable, therefore the answer itself remains in the realm of language, logic, reason and therefor is not the answer.

One time Buddha showed up to a speech and instead of speaking, held up a single rose. 1 guy in the crowd that day, got it.

You want the answer? Here you go:
"The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao"

Jesus and/or the desert in comparison to your experience is really kind of funny, like a kid with a cowboy hat saying he's John Wayne or something.

That's my hero, teacher, master, mystic, someone who's principles I tested and they resulted in direct experiences of the divine, best friend, brother .....and inspiration for going into the woods. I got 40 days in Utah planned later this year so we'll see how that goes. I know the desert is more hard core and ruthless, yet in the same vein of Christ's 40 days in the Desert, came after him various mystics, saints, monks, and hermits who only had access to forests and repeated their solitude there and got to Union/Enlightenment/Satori/Illumination ...so ultimately, it's the intention and frame of mind that matters.

you can fast in society too- ive done it for weeks at a time while working as a carpenter at Habitat For Humanity. give it a try sometime if you think you can handle being weak in front of strangers.

I've done that, but never in the wilderness. This was my first time there. I've done 2-3 weeks fasts whle working and only fluids, teas and water.

and no, I'm not comparing myself to Jesus. I think he's the Mickey Mouse of the religious world, with stories built upon stories.

I think he's one of the greatest..... his principles are testable and produce results.

wasn't the New Testament written 100 years after Jesus died, with the apostles names given to the books to give them credence? as I understand it from my BA in Religious Studies, the books of the NT do not contain a single eye witness account to the life of Jesus.

Don't matter, there are various religious texts around the world that were delayed by a century or two and spread by word of mouth or literal memorization. It's the testing of the principles that counts. The NT is like a set of blueprints, instructions, koans that if followed genuinely, result in various graces, third eye open, activations, transcendence, detachment, and Infinite Love.

So realistically, the whole delay in the NT books doesn't really mean much. There is so many various sources, parties, books that all reference the existence of Christ, the shroud of turin, the fact of Crucifixion as punishment those days, and also historic witnesses such as Josephus. The majority of scholars all agree to the existence of a Historic Christ, and there is a very tiny fractional, maybe 2-3 people who argue that there never was a Jesus and they're arguments are week.

Regardless it's all about the blueprints. If someone gives me a 2000 year old manuscript that says "If you maintain awareness of your breath for 8-12 hours a day, eventually A, B, C, and D will happen followed by E, F, G and H" then these are testable principles that I can see for myself if they are true using my own consciousness as the laboratory.

IN similar fashion, Jesus' teachings can also be tested and there are various experiences and mystical changes that take place when you follow his blueprints, all of which is supposed to lead to ego death and Enlightenment. Of course there are traps along the way!!!! ...but that's in all paths