To U.K. Members Suggesting A U.S. Repeal Of The Second Amendment

Its because we allowed kids to listen to gangster rap music


Which IMO should be banned also, and anybody who dresses and acts like a gangster should be shot on the spot, thats the only real use of a gun to be honest it should be used to shoot retards

reply to post by aka_angrygoose


I try to keep up with world events. I can't recall ever hearing of a grenade attack in the U.S. When America takes the actions needed to address the root problem of violence we might feel safe if we don't have a gun to protect ourselves. Unfortunately the powers that be don't want to do that.

reply to post by Alfie1


wow yes you might have less gun murders but how many bombings gassing stabbings clubbing and the like have you had compared to us per capita

reply to post by jimmiec


I figured it had developed like that.

First, he has aspergers, which is a problem in brain development, not a mental illness. Second, now we know NOT what to do.

There is something essentially awry with an emotionally stunted kid like Adam Lanza having a fascination with guns, and his mother's naive assumption that this affinity of his really meant "bonding" with her son. In reality, it was just her indulging his interest in firearms, which allowed her to "connect" at some highly abstract level with her son. I completely understand why she did it, but in retrospect, it was abnormal from the beginning. People with Aspergers don't tend to relish violence; when they do, given the absence of emotional intelligence, it could spell for something horrific. For Adam, he developed an interest in guns and the power of guns. The entire concept inspired him. Not knowing him, I can only surmise how his interest from guns turned into an interest to using guns against others. All I know is, not understanding or appreciating human emotion makes someone like that extremely unpredictable. Most people are bound by their emotional understanding. The fear of killing others, the consequences of killing others, counterbalances aberrant thoughts of desiring to do such a thing. In Adam, there was no such counterbalance. There was only the desire and the means to fulfill that desire.

Part of why America does not want to give up the right to bear arms is this quote.

“Our main agenda is to have ALL guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.”

Sarah Brady quote

Another reason is that ever since the current administration took office it has constantly been on a gun grab mission.

I was hoping to see, somewhere on this site, the fact that we DO NOT get our rights from some piece of paper.
Even if they abolish the 2nd ammendment, it does not take away any of our rights. Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc, just clarify, and tell the government, certain things that they apparently need to be reminded of. They are that stupid. If you think that we only have the rights that those documents say, you're nuts.
Of course, if you are a US citizen/person, instead of an American, you only have privileges, not rights.

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."
-- Patrick Henry

"United States" is the "District of Columbia" incorporated.
"The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a State" Volume 20: Corpus Juris Sec. § 1785,
Also: NY re: Merriam 36 N.E. 505 1441 S. 0.1973, 14 L. Ed. 287


U.S. citizens were declared enemies of the U.S. by F.D.R. by Executive Order No. 2040 and ratified by Congress on March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1

FDR changed the meaning of The Trading with the Enemy Act of December 6, 1917 by changing the word "without" to citizens "within" the United States

Bond Servant
To cover the debt in 1933 and future debt, the corporate government determined and established the value of the future labor of each individual in its jurisdiction to be $630,000. A bond of $630,000 is set on each Certificate of Live Birth. The certificates are bundled together into sets and then placed as securities on the open market. These certificates are then purchased by the Federal Reserve and/or foreign bankers. The purchaser is the "holder" of "Title." This process made each and every person in this jurisdiction a bond servant.

reply to post by Alfie1


That would be expected for a country with 20% of the population of the US and a relatively homogenous culture.


Do you know nothing of common sense?

Originally posted by dontreally
What I find most bothersome is the inveterate refusal to discuss why the 2nd amendment exists to begin with.

The 1st amendment says:

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

The 2nd amendment is merely a buffer to the 1st. In order to secure the abilities in the first amendment, the founding fathers devised the 2nd amendment which provides citizens with the physical means to intimidate government to fulfill their obligations.

The authors of the US constitution keenly understood the impotence of a constitution that doesn't provide a tangible safeguard to the execution of it's articles. What government possessed in the countries which the migrants left was power, particularly in it's centralized form. Thus, the entree constitution serves to diffuse power among the people, providing them basic rights of individual self determination and the means to defend those rights.

The 2nd amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's about offsetting the ambitions of men who seek the power to influence others. Centralized government provides them with the military, economic, and propagandic power to undermine the libertarian principles ensconced in the 1st amendment. The 2nd amendment, the bulwark of the 1st, is thus a continual source of frustration to those people with ambitions to shape society in the ways they desire. Hence, any plot against the 2nd amendment ultimately serves to weaken ties to the 1st.

The uniqueness of the American experiment is in it's political constitution. Instead of subordinating people to an abstract "leviathan", the American constitution makes an effort to spread the power, to empower the individual with political rights, to empower each citizen with the right to bear arms; this is undoubtedly the source of the spirit of free enterprise and entrepreneurship which has made America such an economic and technological force in the world. Conversely, centralization, radical democratization, subject people to the whims of whichever particular group manages to secure power and impose it's agenda on the rest.

Well, it looks like the 2nd ammendment has failed miserably. The Federal Government(corporation) is ruling over the people. That was not supposed to happen. The state governments(sub-corporations) are ruling over the people. That was not supposed to happen. Municipalities/local government(sub-corporations) are ruling over the people. That was not supposed to happen. Your rights have been removed and replaced with privileges. That was not supposed to happen. America is done for. If people have no clue what has happened, they are a failure.

Originally posted by infolurker



The data shows that nearly 8% of UK residents will be a victim of violent crime, and just over 2% of US residents will be a victim of violent crime?

I feel obliged to point out here that a "violent crime" in the UK usually doesn't mean being riddled with bullets, whereas in the US a crime is hardly classed as violent unless somebody has been shot to death by criminals, cops or "property defending citizens".

Originally posted by proteus33
reply to post by Alfie1

 

wow yes you might have less gun murders but how many bombings gassing stabbings clubbing and the like have you had compared to us per capita

Your post made me laugh out loud, thanks!

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by infolurker



The data shows that nearly 8% of UK residents will be a victim of violent crime, and just over 2% of US residents will be a victim of violent crime?

I feel obliged to point out here that a "violent crime" in the UK usually doesn't mean being riddled with bullets, whereas in the US a crime is hardly classed as violent unless somebody has been shot to death by criminals, cops or "property defending citizens".

Except you're wrong. Any assault (aggravated or simple), robbery, forced rape, or murder is counted as violent by the Department of Justice. They're the exact same as the UK. Stop spreading lies.

Originally posted by Logos23

Originally posted by LFN69

Originally posted by Underworlds
It is amazing how gun control advocates in foreign nations such as the U.K. beleive they have the solution for America's problems as they relate to gun crime and violence here. After relinquishing their own firearms in a futile attempt to end gun violence in the U.K., news reports cite statistics that gun crime in England and Wales "soared by 35% last year".

Link: Gun Crime Soars in England Where Guns Are Banned

That news article is dated only a week ago! "Handguns have been used in 46% more offences". How is this possible in a country where guns are outlawed?

Could it be that in outlawing firearms in the U.K. the law-abiding citizen surrendered their means of defense, the criminal element saw their weakness, and there was now little if anything that anyone could do to prevent these crimes from happening?

There are quite a few ATS members from the U.K. spouting off at the mouth as to how great things will be in the United States if we were to ban firearms here... if we were to abolish the Second Amendment rights which we all hold as dear to us as we do the very right to live. Maybe it would be prudent if these friends from the U.K. cleaned up their own back yards first before telling us Americans how we should live our lives.

What you say may all be true.

Actually none of the claims made in the OP were true.....but I don't believe the OP meant to purposely post untruths but he was miss informed.

"MAY" all be true. I never said it WAS,
That would be down to personal opinion.
I always thought that it was only the ten commandments that were cast in stone meant to be unbreakable.....

Originally posted by Underworlds

Originally posted by Kryties
That's rich coming from an American whose country practically invented the modern day method of sticking their nose into others business.

Aussie here....precisely what "plight" am I currently being afflicted with? I am sitting here in the sunshine with a nice cup of coffee not worrying that some nutter went to the shops and bought a gun and could possibly appear around the corner to blow my brains out. I do not fear this in my country, no matter how much you wish I did just to prove your point.

Somehow or another, I knew that this would eventually come up. I'm not going to argue the point with you. As a matter of fact, I'm going to agree with you 100%. The government of America does stick its nose into other nation's business when it would be best taking care of its own. If someone has a beef with the American government, be my guest and let them know how you feel. Bear in mind, though, that our government does not necessarily represent the wills of the people that it is supposed to represent. As far as the gun rights issue is concerned... gun rights, as they are set forth in the Second Amendment, are not for our nosy, busy-bodied government. The Second Amendment is for the people.

As for that "plight" that I mentioned... well, there are more than enough news reports and government provided statistics to indicate that gun violence and gun-related crimes have escalated in countries where the citizens gave up their rights to keep and bear arms. Maybe you don't see it. Maybe you're just turning a blind eye to it and pretending that it doesn't exist. Still, the statistics are there to demonstrate factually that gun crimes escalate when law-abiding citizens surrender their arms.

It was said: The government of America Okay. 1.) It's not an actual "government". 2.) Do you mean America or United States? There is a difference.
"United States" is the "District of Columbia" incorporated.
"The United States government is a foreign corporation with respect to a State" Volume 20: Corpus Juris Sec. § 1785,
Also: NY re: Merriam 36 N.E. 505 1441 S. 0.1973, 14 L. Ed. 287

The new "United States" includes States such as District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, the Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands. It does not include the 50 states united.
i.e. Title 26 Section 7701 Definitions (a) (9) and (10) 42 U.S.C. 405 (2)(c)(vii)

Just prior to the Stock Market crash of 1929, millions of dollars of gold was taken out of this Country and transferred to England.

All of the remaining assets of the US citizens, including their person, are held by the Depository Trust Corporation (DTC), the central securities depository, at 55 Water Street, New York, NY - secured by Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) Commercial Liens, which are then monetized as "debt money" by the Federal Reserve.
Under the umbrella of the DTC lies the CEDE Corporation, the Federal Reserve Corporation and the American Bar Association, the "legal arm" of the banking interests.

US citizens/persons are not Americans. They are slaves/subjects of the CROWN. (corporation).
They have already disarmed much of the world. America, the usA is next. They're starting it now. It won't end with assault type rifles.

Originally posted by regfenster
As I mentioned per previous post, it is a local event, an American issue that needs to be addressed by those directly effected, that would be the American public, call me cold hearted but the recent shootings do not have no direct effect upon me, my country or my way of life. This in my opinion is not a international event with direct consequences for the world as a whole, thus a local issue.

cute

but when americans come here on holiday...there are no guns

but if you were to go there, for a "vacation"....shouldnt you have the right to comment

like everyone comments about egypt...

its not solely there own issue .....they "dictate" to other countires how to live....but then they have this underlying issue

america can never tell outsiders to mind their own business....kinda hypocritical.

also...why dont you share your real opinion....would it be..."who cares if the yanks are toppin each other!"

weird that you get hi-fives here for

*supporting guns
*hating free healthcare
*being an atheist

the site is begining to make me ill.....my brain cant work out why people are full of hate....
the comments i read here...makes me wonder about the future....the chinese indians and asians are getting strong...the arabs are getting alot more civilised....africans are getting smarter and recievng support from elsewhere

and the americans....wasting "energies" trying to keep the country in the 18th century

reply to post by thePharaoh


please let me correct you on the 18th century mindset. why do armies around the world practise sun tzus "the art of war" ? it's much older than the constitution yet it is proven effective. trying not to hate much but as modern people we still use ancient inventions and even ancient philosophies which are still practical today. i mean i don't even know you, so acting like i hate a perfect stranger is like swinging blindly. if we let history repeat itself like everyone from the mayans, through bush, then we won't evolve very far. we will still be in that master slave relationship as many civilizations throughout history endured with no change in pattern of democide

Originally posted by LFN69

Originally posted by Logos23

Originally posted by LFN69

Originally posted by Underworlds
It is amazing how gun control advocates in foreign nations such as the U.K. beleive they have the solution for America's problems as they relate to gun crime and violence here. After relinquishing their own firearms in a futile attempt to end gun violence in the U.K., news reports cite statistics that gun crime in England and Wales "soared by 35% last year".

Link: Gun Crime Soars in England Where Guns Are Banned

That news article is dated only a week ago! "Handguns have been used in 46% more offences". How is this possible in a country where guns are outlawed?

Could it be that in outlawing firearms in the U.K. the law-abiding citizen surrendered their means of defense, the criminal element saw their weakness, and there was now little if anything that anyone could do to prevent these crimes from happening?

There are quite a few ATS members from the U.K. spouting off at the mouth as to how great things will be in the United States if we were to ban firearms here... if we were to abolish the Second Amendment rights which we all hold as dear to us as we do the very right to live. Maybe it would be prudent if these friends from the U.K. cleaned up their own back yards first before telling us Americans how we should live our lives.

What you say may all be true.

Actually none of the claims made in the OP were true.....but I don't believe the OP meant to purposely post untruths but he was miss informed.

"MAY" all be true. I never said it WAS,
That would be down to personal opinion.
I always thought that it was only the ten commandments that were cast in stone meant to be unbreakable.....

It wasn't down to personal opinion...I was stating a fact...that even the OP is aware of now.

But I wasn't actually trying to have a dig at you or be negative in anyway so I apologize if that's how it came across. I thought perhaps you had missed the earlier post's in the thread where the OP claims where shown to be incorrect...and by that I don't meant speculation or opinion....factually incorrect.
But again I wasn't being negative bringing this up....that's why I said I believed the OP had posted in good will even if the OP was incorrect....I have beef with no one

Yes but gun crime is usually unavoidable in the UK, it's carefully planned and carried out by a lunatic who are going to do it anyway.

In the states there are accidents, spur of the moment shootings and all sorts.

Just take the kid who shot up the school, had he been in Britain I doubt he'd have the contacts on the black market to source a gun, it would be a massive effort for him and possibly enough to put him off the idea, in the states everyone can have a gun and as soon as they have a bad day at work or something they have a killing machine at their disposal instantly.

It's so backward it's frightening. When I went to Vegas I went to a gun range thinking "when in Rome" and all that, when I got there I was disgusted by how flippantly they treated having a gun, they were selling shirts with the slogan "in Nevada we don't call 911" almost as if they want to kill burglars and attackers.

reply to post by paraphi

If mental health care was a bit more advanced how many of these regular mass killings could have been avoided?

What does this mean? Do you mean to imply that we should institutionalize everyone who is diagnosed with a mental disorder and have all the taxpayers pick up the tab? Because, you know it is very expensive. Is that what so-called advanced cultures do according to your idea of it? How would you decide which mental disorders deserve institutionalizing? Many people are already on drugs and some of these drugs have even been implicated in mass shootings and other problems.
Then there is the problem with Statism. Do you suggest a more Statist approach? That is, who decides who is going to be institutionalized? Who decides who gets meds? This is way too fascist for the US if you ask me. Right now, the closest thing we have to what you are saying is to BakerAct someone, and that is only for 72 hours. Our HIPAA laws do not allow us to just put people in institutions against their will for more than that amount of time, and even then it's only for observation. Anyone over 18 will not allow parental decisions to be involved, as the patient is then an adult.

So do you just want to override all this stuff and "Manage" all the sick people?

No thanks! That's just too darn Nanny State for me and for most other people.

Any other alternatives besides meds and being locked up?
If so , I'd love to hear. Even the most alternative methods still involve nutrition.

You got some other magic method?

American member John Phoenix suggest the Queen of England step down for her war crimes and crimes against the people of England and allow the people to write their own constitution and create.a true republic where the people can really be free.

Nuff said.

So the OP is calling out the UK for putting their two cents in about our gun culture, while at the same time, the OP puts his two cents in about the UKs lack of one?

Opinions are like...well, you know...

An opinion is an opinion and chastising someone for having one while giving your opinion about them seems rather hypocritical.

Did people not expect a debate to occur after Sandy Hook? Is everyone going to get all bent out of shape every time someone has a differing opinion? Do you wonder why NOTHING gets done in this country anymore? We are now to the point where we automatically call someone a "nut" for having an opposing opinion?

So im a "nut" because i think we need more gun control DESPITE the fact that i have one? I mean, i must be hated by both sides with this being the case. I must be super nutty!

The more ridiculous the debate gets, the less likely we are going to solve this problem AT all.