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To U.K. Members Suggesting A U.S. Repeal Of The Second Amendment
page: 7share:
Originally posted by cavtrooper7
It seems Aussies are mad at what was done as wellwww.youtube.com...#!
You will always get a handful that will protest anything but you are not entitled to go from that to " Aussies are mad " in general.
According to this article " upwards of 90 % " supported the gun control measures :-
bangordailynews.com...
Cavtrooper:
No. It seems some Aussies are mad at what was done as well. In fact, 2000 out of 22,650,000. So it was an overwhelming majority then? At least they got off their arses, which demonstrates their passion to the idea. When they banned hunting here in the UK, supporters of hunting, which for many of them was also employment, they too got off their arses and demonstrated. They put their argument into action, and even though I support a rational and meaningful form of gun control, applied at the right time, for the right reasons, I support those whom actually got off their arse to demonstrate and took to the streets for their beliefs.
I have yet to see gun advocates in America take to the streets for their beliefs, and demonstrate against gun bans, against the shredding of parts of the constitution, or against the government that was doing the shredding...that too I would support. Seeing such dynamic action would enable me to adapt my thinking to the debate, and to actually come out in respectful support, but so far (and correct me if I'm wrong) no such action has been undertaken at all!
Put your feet on the street for your beliefs, and demonstrate your passion and your commitment to them, at least then you are showing the world, but more importantly yourselves, you mean what you say.
It seems Aussies are mad at what was done as wellwww.youtube.com...#!
No. It seems some Aussies are mad at what was done as well. In fact, 2000 out of 22,650,000. So it was an overwhelming majority then? At least they got off their arses, which demonstrates their passion to the idea. When they banned hunting here in the UK, supporters of hunting, which for many of them was also employment, they too got off their arses and demonstrated. They put their argument into action, and even though I support a rational and meaningful form of gun control, applied at the right time, for the right reasons, I support those whom actually got off their arse to demonstrate and took to the streets for their beliefs.
I have yet to see gun advocates in America take to the streets for their beliefs, and demonstrate against gun bans, against the shredding of parts of the constitution, or against the government that was doing the shredding...that too I would support. Seeing such dynamic action would enable me to adapt my thinking to the debate, and to actually come out in respectful support, but so far (and correct me if I'm wrong) no such action has been undertaken at all!
Put your feet on the street for your beliefs, and demonstrate your passion and your commitment to them, at least then you are showing the world, but more importantly yourselves, you mean what you say.
What I find most bothersome is the inveterate refusal to discuss why the 2nd amendment exists to begin with.
The 1st amendment says:
The 2nd amendment is merely a buffer to the 1st. In order to secure the abilities in the first amendment, the founding fathers devised the 2nd amendment which provides citizens with the physical means to intimidate government to fulfill their obligations.
The authors of the US constitution keenly understood the impotence of a constitution that doesn't provide a tangible safeguard to the execution of it's articles. What government possessed in the countries which the migrants left was power, particularly in it's centralized form. Thus, the entree constitution serves to diffuse power among the people, providing them basic rights of individual self determination and the means to defend those rights.
The 2nd amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's about offsetting the ambitions of men who seek the power to influence others. Centralized government provides them with the military, economic, and propagandic power to undermine the libertarian principles ensconced in the 1st amendment. The 2nd amendment, the bulwark of the 1st, is thus a continual source of frustration to those people with ambitions to shape society in the ways they desire. Hence, any plot against the 2nd amendment ultimately serves to weaken ties to the 1st.
The uniqueness of the American experiment is in it's political constitution. Instead of subordinating people to an abstract "leviathan", the American constitution makes an effort to spread the power, to empower the individual with political rights, to empower each citizen with the right to bear arms; this is undoubtedly the source of the spirit of free enterprise and entrepreneurship which has made America such an economic and technological force in the world. Conversely, centralization, radical democratization, subject people to the whims of whichever particular group manages to secure power and impose it's agenda on the rest.
The 1st amendment says:
The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.
The 2nd amendment is merely a buffer to the 1st. In order to secure the abilities in the first amendment, the founding fathers devised the 2nd amendment which provides citizens with the physical means to intimidate government to fulfill their obligations.
The authors of the US constitution keenly understood the impotence of a constitution that doesn't provide a tangible safeguard to the execution of it's articles. What government possessed in the countries which the migrants left was power, particularly in it's centralized form. Thus, the entree constitution serves to diffuse power among the people, providing them basic rights of individual self determination and the means to defend those rights.
The 2nd amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's about offsetting the ambitions of men who seek the power to influence others. Centralized government provides them with the military, economic, and propagandic power to undermine the libertarian principles ensconced in the 1st amendment. The 2nd amendment, the bulwark of the 1st, is thus a continual source of frustration to those people with ambitions to shape society in the ways they desire. Hence, any plot against the 2nd amendment ultimately serves to weaken ties to the 1st.
The uniqueness of the American experiment is in it's political constitution. Instead of subordinating people to an abstract "leviathan", the American constitution makes an effort to spread the power, to empower the individual with political rights, to empower each citizen with the right to bear arms; this is undoubtedly the source of the spirit of free enterprise and entrepreneurship which has made America such an economic and technological force in the world. Conversely, centralization, radical democratization, subject people to the whims of whichever particular group manages to secure power and impose it's agenda on the rest.
Originally posted by Underworlds
It is amazing how gun control advocates in foreign nations such as the U.K. beleive they have the solution for America's problems as they relate to gun crime and violence here. After relinquishing their own firearms in a futile attempt to end gun violence in the U.K., news reports cite statistics that gun crime in England and Wales "soared by 35% last year".
Link: Gun Crime Soars in England Where Guns Are Banned
That news article is dated only a week ago! "Handguns have been used in 46% more offences". How is this possible in a country where guns are outlawed?
Could it be that in outlawing firearms in the U.K. the law-abiding citizen surrendered their means of defense, the criminal element saw their weakness, and there was now little if anything that anyone could do to prevent these crimes from happening?
There are quite a few ATS members from the U.K. spouting off at the mouth as to how great things will be in the United States if we were to ban firearms here... if we were to abolish the Second Amendment rights which we all hold as dear to us as we do the very right to live. Maybe it would be prudent if these friends from the U.K. cleaned up their own back yards first before telling us Americans how we should live our lives.
Exactly like I've been saying for years, all banning guns does is take guns away from law abiding people.
Criminals still have them.
That IS the case, anyone one who disagrees with that needs their head checking.
edit on 23/12/12 by Gazmeister because: (no reason
given)
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread911120/pg1#pid15596343]post by Underworlds[/
It's like when a child has a toy that he doesn't play with so the parents get rid of it but the child protests kicks screams throws a tantrum because its gone/or going the child does this because its his not because he wants it to play with because if he did he wouldn't have stopped playing with it
You say you want it for protection? From who? Do you even own a weapon? If so have you used it and what for if not then where's the problem? Here in the uk we don't live in fear because we don't have a firearm to protect ourselves and family we are not that paranoid that everyone is out to get us, I suspect you created this thread just because you didn't agree with others views of what some non Americans views are you say these Brits were discussing something that has nothing to do with them! Everyone is entitled to there own views and opinions if your countries politics weren't rammed down our throats 24/7 in the news then I'm sure we would find something else to talk about
My opinion of you is that you created this thread just to rage about some non American views although its a thread of no substance or even factual evidence like an above poster already proved the simple fact is if guns were outlawed unless a member of a club sport association etc then nut jobs like Lanza would never have been in possession of an assault weapon and pistols because he clearly wasn't of his own faculties I'm not pro gun or anti gun because I'm a soldier it's my job to be proficient in handling a very wide range of weapons and knowing how to use them (unfortunately which I have had to) but I personally would never keep a firearm in my own home when I have young children because its not the example that I want to set
It's like when a child has a toy that he doesn't play with so the parents get rid of it but the child protests kicks screams throws a tantrum because its gone/or going the child does this because its his not because he wants it to play with because if he did he wouldn't have stopped playing with it
You say you want it for protection? From who? Do you even own a weapon? If so have you used it and what for if not then where's the problem? Here in the uk we don't live in fear because we don't have a firearm to protect ourselves and family we are not that paranoid that everyone is out to get us, I suspect you created this thread just because you didn't agree with others views of what some non Americans views are you say these Brits were discussing something that has nothing to do with them! Everyone is entitled to there own views and opinions if your countries politics weren't rammed down our throats 24/7 in the news then I'm sure we would find something else to talk about
My opinion of you is that you created this thread just to rage about some non American views although its a thread of no substance or even factual evidence like an above poster already proved the simple fact is if guns were outlawed unless a member of a club sport association etc then nut jobs like Lanza would never have been in possession of an assault weapon and pistols because he clearly wasn't of his own faculties I'm not pro gun or anti gun because I'm a soldier it's my job to be proficient in handling a very wide range of weapons and knowing how to use them (unfortunately which I have had to) but I personally would never keep a firearm in my own home when I have young children because its not the example that I want to set
I don't tell you euros what finger to point at tea time, as I don't care.
The real question is, why do you euros care so much?
The real question is, why do you euros care so much?
edit on 23-12-2012 by jeneri because: (no reason given)
reply to post by jeneri
Honestly I don't care what your country does, I suspect it's the fact 20 very young and very innocent children where murdered which is why the international community are taking an interest, and what finger to point? Really! As far as I'm aware that's an English thing usually adapted to the higher class or snobs depending on your view its definitely not European at least not that I'm aware of and euros is a currency not a nationality mate
Honestly I don't care what your country does, I suspect it's the fact 20 very young and very innocent children where murdered which is why the international community are taking an interest, and what finger to point? Really! As far as I'm aware that's an English thing usually adapted to the higher class or snobs depending on your view its definitely not European at least not that I'm aware of and euros is a currency not a nationality mate
Originally posted by dontreally
What I find most bothersome is the inveterate refusal to discuss why the 2nd amendment exists to begin with.
The 1st amendment says:
The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.
The 2nd amendment is merely a buffer to the 1st. In order to secure the abilities in the first amendment, the founding fathers devised the 2nd amendment which provides citizens with the physical means to intimidate government to fulfill their obligations.
The authors of the US constitution keenly understood the impotence of a constitution that doesn't provide a tangible safeguard to the execution of it's articles. What government possessed in the countries which the migrants left was power, particularly in it's centralized form. Thus, the entree constitution serves to diffuse power among the people, providing them basic rights of individual self determination and the means to defend those rights.
The 2nd amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's about offsetting the ambitions of men who seek the power to influence others. Centralized government provides them with the military, economic, and propagandic power to undermine the libertarian principles ensconced in the 1st amendment. The 2nd amendment, the bulwark of the 1st, is thus a continual source of frustration to those people with ambitions to shape society in the ways they desire. Hence, any plot against the 2nd amendment ultimately serves to weaken ties to the 1st.
The uniqueness of the American experiment is in it's political constitution. Instead of subordinating people to an abstract "leviathan", the American constitution makes an effort to spread the power, to empower the individual with political rights, to empower each citizen with the right to bear arms; this is undoubtedly the source of the spirit of free enterprise and entrepreneurship which has made America such an economic and technological force in the world. Conversely, centralization, radical democratization, subject people to the whims of whichever particular group manages to secure power and impose it's agenda on the rest.
I really don't see how you read all that into the 2nd amendment. The obvious meaning of the words is that well regulated militias could be useful in protecting newly won independence.
It seems to me very unlikely that the authors thought armed insurrection against the government would be a good idea and nowhere does it say that. If armed mobs can intimidate government what has happened to representation of the people, one man one vote, independence of the judiciary etc. Who decides what is a tyrannical government and can't armed mobs be tyrannical ?
let the U.K. crowd eat cake.
Americans civilians make up the largest army in the world - well over 60million and somewhere around 500 million guns.
these loan shooters types are extremely suspect - as many threads on ATS suggest.
Americans civilians make up the largest army in the world - well over 60million and somewhere around 500 million guns.
these loan shooters types are extremely suspect - as many threads on ATS suggest.
reply to post by Underworlds
I really don't know what we have to do with your arguments over guns in the states?
All crime is going up in this country. Everyone was warned, but no one listened and still voted for Tory.
Gun crime is still very rare in this country. Let's hope it stays that way. Then again our kids who grew up on watching gun toting cowboys and then arnold swartznegger films and then viiolent video games are growing up now, so who knows?
Bravo to James Bond! What a great character to aspire too, for a boy!
Come now chaps, innocent adults and children lost their lives the other week.
No more guns. Don't make it any easier for the loons to strike again, just becasue they had a bad day!
I really don't know what we have to do with your arguments over guns in the states?
All crime is going up in this country. Everyone was warned, but no one listened and still voted for Tory.
Gun crime is still very rare in this country. Let's hope it stays that way. Then again our kids who grew up on watching gun toting cowboys and then arnold swartznegger films and then viiolent video games are growing up now, so who knows?
Bravo to James Bond! What a great character to aspire too, for a boy!
Come now chaps, innocent adults and children lost their lives the other week.
No more guns. Don't make it any easier for the loons to strike again, just becasue they had a bad day!
What is everyone classifying as an assault weapon? The definition, if you were to ask us law abiding gun owners, would be, fully automatic weapons.
Which I may add, are already restricted in the US. So I ask again, what do you classify as an assault weapon? I'm tired of everyone saying semi
auto's are assault weapons. And I'm tired of people telling law abiding gun owners, that they don't need their guns. Just because it's one way
in your home country, doesn't mean it should be that way in the USA. Don't fault the law abiding gun owners, .for the actions of criminals. Murder
is a crime, those commiting murder are criminals. Plain and simple.
reply to post by happinness
Criminals will always be able to get guns, no matter what the laws are. Banning guns, will not change the criminals ability to obtain firearms. The black market is strong, in most countries of the world. Maybe we should ban the black market......wait a minute, it is illegal.
Criminals will always be able to get guns, no matter what the laws are. Banning guns, will not change the criminals ability to obtain firearms. The black market is strong, in most countries of the world. Maybe we should ban the black market......wait a minute, it is illegal.
Originally posted by happinness
reply to post by Underworlds
I really don't know what we have to do with your arguments over guns in the states?
All crime is going up in this country. Everyone was warned, but no one listened and still voted for Tory.
Except it isn't true. Crime rates are falling and have been for years in UK :-
www.guardian.co.uk...
The truth is over here in England we see the new's eveyday people been in killed. In different countries like syria or the U.S. It's sad but we
don't know them justsome face's on t.v. Or the guy from Norway. I think if i lived state side. I would buy a gun because you need one to be safe.
Americans love guns Nobody will change that. It's they culture. And it's up to the Americans to gov them self's. It's they right. Do the
americans come over to the U.K and say eveyone should buy a gun. No.
reply to post by aka_angrygoose
China murders far more than 20 children a day. Where is the moral outrage? Innocent children are murdered daily around the world. Nobody likes it. It would seem America is being accused of intentionally killing innocent children. Do you realize that the mentally ill person could have just as easily blew up the entire building? He could have driven a truck into the building at 60 mph. The Second Amendment is still a valid deterrent to a tyranical government even though the military is far superior in weapons. The military is made up of American citizens that took an oath to protect the Constitution. They could turn those weapons in either direction. The government knows this and it is a deterrent to tyranny in and of itself even if not in the literal sense. American society is different than society in the UK. We have more people packed into very large cities. We have gangs running rampant in those cities with guns. We have rap music that spews violence and romanticizes it. We have the media in a feeding frenzy to profit from violence. There are too many differences to name.
China murders far more than 20 children a day. Where is the moral outrage? Innocent children are murdered daily around the world. Nobody likes it. It would seem America is being accused of intentionally killing innocent children. Do you realize that the mentally ill person could have just as easily blew up the entire building? He could have driven a truck into the building at 60 mph. The Second Amendment is still a valid deterrent to a tyranical government even though the military is far superior in weapons. The military is made up of American citizens that took an oath to protect the Constitution. They could turn those weapons in either direction. The government knows this and it is a deterrent to tyranny in and of itself even if not in the literal sense. American society is different than society in the UK. We have more people packed into very large cities. We have gangs running rampant in those cities with guns. We have rap music that spews violence and romanticizes it. We have the media in a feeding frenzy to profit from violence. There are too many differences to name.
mate...people are only trying to help
there has been too many school/mass shootings in the states this year
people across the world dont understand how soo many young people become unprovoked mass murderers
people like me in the uk....understand....that if we had guns, the same can happen here...the fact that we dont have many guns, is most likely the reason why we dont have these problems
do you think guns have a place in civil society???
the more guns we take off the streets, then.that guns potential to be used will disappear
dont get bitter...we love you...we want you to stay alive....especially the young...who knows, one of those sandy hook children could of cured cancer...but i guess we will never know
stay alive...you were created for a reason.
peace and love
there has been too many school/mass shootings in the states this year
people across the world dont understand how soo many young people become unprovoked mass murderers
people like me in the uk....understand....that if we had guns, the same can happen here...the fact that we dont have many guns, is most likely the reason why we dont have these problems
do you think guns have a place in civil society???
the more guns we take off the streets, then.that guns potential to be used will disappear
dont get bitter...we love you...we want you to stay alive....especially the young...who knows, one of those sandy hook children could of cured cancer...but i guess we will never know
stay alive...you were created for a reason.
peace and love
edit on 23-12-2012 by thePharaoh because: (no reason given)
reply to post by thePharaoh
I appreciate your concern. Just wish we would focus on the criminals more. Not the law abiding citizens.
I appreciate your concern. Just wish we would focus on the criminals more. Not the law abiding citizens.
Originally posted by Fireman205253
reply to post by thePharaoh
I appreciate your concern. Just wish we would focus on the criminals more. Not the law abiding citizens.
they manufacture millions of guns....how many licence holders are there??....why make so many?
the second amendment is about bearing arms right....does it say what type of arms?
why do you need an automatic weapon, assault rifle, tank or a bazooka!
arm your self with a shot gun to defend yourself...cool....but weapons that are designed for attack, not self defence need to be restricted..
BTW im begining to see your point though....after watching the "stars" come out and speak up against it....i realise why you have cauuse for concern
but remember, we want to keep weapons like guns in the hands of the right people.
so i dont think they should come near licence holders
but they should go after manufacturers...and give them a quota on the more aggressive weaponary...quotas will help track where they end up....
keep your gun mate...parts of america are ruthless...but help TPTB to get guns out of the hands of minors and criminals
peace
edit on 23-12-2012 by thePharaoh because: (no reason given)
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