NRA wants armed guards in schools

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by muse7

 

Yeah great ideal dumb ass! Maybe you should open a new thread titled "Idiots for gun control"..

Gun free zones are targeted because they are defenseless, just as an unarmed America would be defenseless!

edit on 21-12-2012 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)

Actually, "Gun Free Zones" are targeted because schools are labeled "Gun Free Zones". Schools are the targets, not "Gun Free Zones". Schools are # up by students of the schools they are shooting up in the vast majority of cases.

Really? Why dont we see police stations shot up? Power lies in defense not attack!

Why don't we see churches shot up?

There are more factors involved than you are bringing to the table.

reply to post by DoYouEvenLift


I have heard a church having its door chained and burn to the ground. I have also heard of defenseless peoples hurded into churches and slaughtered during WWII etc...

What about the morman school that was the target of an attack just a few years ago? That was a church friend!

Unarmed soft targets will be targeted, well armed hard targets will not be targeted. It is as simple as that.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by alldaylong

 

Probably yesterday, innercity schools have violence carried out by gang members all the time, rarely does it get reported, it's business as usual there. For the record I am not advocating armed guards, just pointing out that we are at war on things on our soil, seems like we will have a war on certain demonized guns shortly as well.

edit on Fri, 21 Dec 2012 15:51:48 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

INdeed they do...Case in point. The undereported gun violence in Anti Gun Chicago. 400 murders as of October 2012

Point to ponder

Flags flew at half-staff all across the winter-draped city this week to honor the dead in Newtown, Conn. The massacre was unspeakable, and yet Chicago counts far more murder victims every month — many of them young people — than died in the carnage in Connecticut.

Nothing is sacred in the criminal or disturbed mind. They are equal

Bullets flew on the South Side on Nov. 26 as the first mourners stepped outside St. Columbanus Catholic Church, where as many as 500 people gathered to lament the death of a reputed gang member. Two young men were hit. One died.

www.washingtonpost.com... ml



Where is the national outrage regarding what has happened in Chicago?

Since Jan. 1, Chicago police have recorded 2,364 shooting incidents and 487 homicides, 87 percent of them gun-related. Shootings have increased 12 percent this year and murders are up 19 percent.

Young people are often targets. In the school year that ended in June, 319 Chicago public school students were shot, 24 of them fatally. The total does not include school-age children who had dropped out or were enrolled elsewhere.

Chicago has some of the strictest gun ownership laws in the country

www.washingtonpost.com...

reply to post by jibeho


Never really hear about it unless you live in the area, or know people that do. The bad kid's school I graduated from was almost all innercity kids from NY and CT, almost every day I would hear about a shooting or stabbing on the block. Until then I was pretty ignorant at the goings on there, the only time it is ever reported is when a stray bullet kills a baby or something.

Some personal reflections from those days, I learned a lot on just how different the innercity was from the country. My fist bad kids school, the first week of school, there was two gangbangers squaring off to fight on the smoke break. Me, being a countryboy, got between them, and said to settle that after school. The whole school looked at me like I had ten heads, one of the kids explained it to me something like this: "If it happens here, the beef is settled with some black eyes, bloody noses and suspensions. The beef is settled after school in the hood, no doubt blades and heat is gonna come out, people gonna get smoked." That was the first incident I learned, later I experienced it firsthand going to their hoods after school for parties and to chill.

I think the point that many are missing is if our teachers were able to carry, and we had guards that actually had guns then these crazy people would not even think about going to a school in the first place. This is not about a shoot out between some crazy and some teachers for that would not happen if the crazy knew that there would be a good chance he would get shot too.

Think of that principal who flung her body across some kids to protect them...she died, the kids died...Now think of her shooting a gun at the killer instead. In Texas there are schools where the teachers CAN carry if they so desire. Also in Texas they now have 20 or so years since they started CLs and the percentage of those with CLs that commit crimes is .20 of 1 percent.

I find it funny that people have this issue with teachers carrying, like they will freak out and start shooting, and if that was the case they could still bring a gun from home anyways and freak out just the same, but that has never been the case....

Originally posted by DrNotforhire
My one wish

is that foreigners would stay out of US business... They don't like it when we are in others.... Stop being hypocritical

Well...if I may take that personally, I would advise that if you don't want foreign opinion intruding, then you ought not to post in an international forum. I'm sure you have lots of websites available that will simply 'ditto' all your remarks.

Mind you, that won't teach you much, either.

Originally posted by DoYouEvenLift

It is also effective to remove all guns from a society.

The question becomes, are you more or less likely to be shot when guns are banned?

That may be a question for you, but it's not a question for the over 60 million LAW ABIDING, LEGAL gun owners in the United States of America.


Why is it not a question for them?

Because the right to bear arms is a RIGHT that is protected by the constitution.

Not a PRIVLIDGE granted by our masters.

It is a right that is protected by the constitution that allows citizens to protect themselves, their property, and their country from all enemies both foregin and domestic.

Our rights are there for a REASON, they were expressly protected for a REASON and true critical thinking and freedom loving people must resist the tyranny that wishes to encroach on our rights, lest tyranny prevail.

Having said that, this thread is not about guns or no guns, no matter how badly you want to push you faulty leftist agenda. This was about the NRA proposing armed guards at centers of education.

My original post flat out addresses the original poster and the topic: Schools with a dedicated armed presence exist, they deter violent crimes, any problems (not just school shootings, but any lawlessness) has an immediate first responder that is dedicated to the safety and well being of the students.

That's a fact, I know it's a fact because my children attend schools with their own legally sanctioned and dedicated police force.

This is not open to your leftist interpretation, it exists and it WORKS.

Thank you,

X

blog.beliefnet.com...

“Then they took our guns

“Next came gun registration. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long afterwards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily.


Kitty Werthmann

“No more freedom of speech. Anyone who said something against the government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up.

“Totalitarianism didn’t come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria. Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom.”

“This is my eye-witness account."

“It’s true. Those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity.

“America is truly is the greatest country in the world.

“Don’t let freedom slip away.

“After America, there is no place to go.”

reply to post by jibeho


You really should read through the entire post instead of picking one sentence. It isn't JUST a money issue,but all of the things I listed in my post. One thing to keep in mind is that the police are under no obligation to protect the public. They carry firearms for THEIR defense, not for ours. Teachers see and interact with the children in their class on a daily basis. I know my children's teachers and would definitely trust them to carry a firearm while around my children. The gun free zones only stripped the rights away from the law abiding. Criminals do not obey the law. I do not think that every teacher should be armed, not every person should be. I do not think anyone should be required to be armed, but if they have the mind to and can pass the background checks, pass the proficiency test, and go through the required training that is necessary to obtain a concealed carry permit, then what is the problem? I am certain most teachers would prefer not to carry a firearm, that should be their choice. All I am saying is that if a person walks into a school with the intention of doing harm to anyone, they will think twice about carrying it out if they were not sure if their was a teacher, principal, or nurse with a gun. An armed police officer would be one option, but not the best option in my opinion.

No! This is pure idiocy.
This is the NRA selling out (shocker) to the Police State.
Does anyone think parents are going to trust armed security guards around their children? I'm sure as hell not. No they will demand LEO's. Geniuses!

While it may have been badly worded, I think the NRA was refering to arming Teachers. I don't see anything wrong with that. Teachers are already in a position of leadership and trust in schools, so allowing them to be armed isn't a bad idea.

If we take the NRA at face value on this issue, then aren't they (The NRA) asking for the US to become a police state? Thats not right, thats not right at all.

I really think they (The NRA) are just talking about arming teachers. It's a topic thats come up, but is also being pushed aside in favor of restricting gun ownership.

Originally posted by Guyfriday
While it may have been badly worded, I think the NRA was refering to arming Teachers. I don't see anything wrong with that. Teachers are already in a position of leadership and trust in schools, so allowing them to be armed isn't a bad idea.

If we take the NRA at face value on this issue, then aren't they (The NRA) asking for the US to become a police state? Thats not right, thats not right at all.

I really think they (The NRA) are just talking about arming teachers. It's a topic thats come up, but is also being pushed aside in favor of restricting gun ownership.

Security guards at schools does not equal a police state!

Originally posted by watchitburn

NRA wants armed guards in schools

www.reuters.com

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," said Wayne LaPierre, chief executive of the National Rifle Association, noting that banks and airports are patrolled by armed guards, while schools typically are not.

His remarks - in which he charged that the news media and violent video games shared blame for the second-deadliest school shooting in U.S. history - were twice interrupted by protesters who unfurled signs and shouted "stop the killing."

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.usatoday.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
NRA Press Conference Live Stream Beginning at 10:45 EST

Sorry but having "armed guards in school" is NOT what was said. He said: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." Which lead me to start this ATS thread: NRA: "Post Good Guys w/Guns @ School"
There's a HUGE difference between "armed guards" and "good guys"/"bad guys". Perhaps, you should take a look, at what their "good guys" do, when they're on a rampage. It's what some would call: BULLYING, if this were a group of kids doing that to someone else. Yet and still, we TOLERATE IT!

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by Guyfriday
While it may have been badly worded, I think the NRA was refering to arming Teachers. I don't see anything wrong with that. Teachers are already in a position of leadership and trust in schools, so allowing them to be armed isn't a bad idea.

If we take the NRA at face value on this issue, then aren't they (The NRA) asking for the US to become a police state? Thats not right, thats not right at all.

I really think they (The NRA) are just talking about arming teachers. It's a topic thats come up, but is also being pushed aside in favor of restricting gun ownership.

Security guards at schools does not equal a police state!

What equals a "police state" then? An armed guard in your bedroom, at night? Ben Franklin.....WHERE ARE YOU?

sorry but the fact is that the NRA is the only one actually standing up in this country on firearms at a federal level.

people can talk all they want about rights but they refuse to get off there lazy ass and do anything about it. Most of the NRA members I know are afraid to even admit there members until they are typically around a bunch of other white people then the whole Obama is a black Muslim things starts coming out and hes going to take our guns yadda yadda

Obama is not going to take anything, we are giving them away by our lack of involvement.

The only problem I see is they will all just be sitting around on there fat lazy asses waiting for anything to happen so they can look like heroes and when you have a situation where jacked up and bored people are around helpless kids rights abuses happen and people get pepper sprayed in the face for protesting.

There is a simple answer, in force the laws and rules and if we can't stop this with our weak kneed approach to crime maybe we need to consult some criminals on how to stop them.

You think anyone would walk into a mafia den and start shooting up 26 people by themselves? hahaha they might get 2 before they were knee capped and tortured to death. There final conciuos thought would be that whoever they loved would pay for what they did as well.

reply to post by BlowinSmoke


Not for nothing, but the bad kids schools I went to had armed guards there. It was also more free than my home highschool ironically. The armed guards were all cool, they were hand picked, all were great with our age group.

They were not there because they were worried about the people actually caring enough to go to school, but to prevent gangs from bringing their violence from outside to the schools. There were plenty of gangbangers there, but they cared enough to stay in school and try to graduate, rather than drop out, so there was a sliver of hope for them. They were actually happy to be there, knowing at least then, they didn't have to worry about being stabbed or shot, even with rival members eating at the other side of the cafateria, sitting next to them in class.

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Security guards at schools does not equal a police state!

Sure it does, an eye at every wall, a uniformed authority figure at every glance. Tastes like a police state. This is not what the NRA said though, and thats why I think he was talking about arming teachers.

The MSM is talking about stationing police officers at every school, and that fits with the idea of a police state.

While I know what the NRA said, I also know what the MSM are saying, and they seem to be using the same idea's for two different agandas. (Maybe I'm wrong though. Is what the NRA said, and whats being reported that they said the same message, or two different messages?)

www.ijreview.com... its on page 7 so you might wanna start the list over but before newton the worst school shootings were in Germany and the uk respectively


number 9 from that list

The political causation is that nations which have violence problems tend to adopt severe gun controls, but these do not reduce violence, which is determined by basic sociocultural and economic factors.” [Then why does Luxemburg have nine times the murder rate of Germany?] (Kates & Mauser, Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, Vol. 30, No. 2)

and if you check out the corresponding graphs at a few of the other ones in the slide show you might just be surprised at what you find

www.ijreview.com... this graph shows the rates murder in the usa from 1889 to 2007

1
WAYNE LAPIERRE
The National Rifle Association's 4 million mothers, fathers, sons and
daughters join the nation in horror, outrage, grief and earnest prayer
for the families of Newtown, Connecticut … who suffered such
incomprehensible loss as a result of this unspeakable crime.
Out of respect for those grieving families, and until the facts are
known, the NRA has refrained from comment. While some have tried
to exploit tragedy for political gain, we have remained respectfully
silent.
Now, we must speak … for the safety of our nation's children. Because
for all the noise and anger directed at us over the past week, no one
— nobody — has addressed the most important, pressing and
immediate question we face: How do we protect our children right
now, starting today, in a way that we know works?
The only way to answer that question is to face up to the truth.
Politicians pass laws for Gun-Free School Zones. They issue press
releases bragging about them. They post signs advertising them. 2
And in so doing, they tell every insane killer in America that schools
are their safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk.
How have our nation's priorities gotten so far out of order? Think
about it. We care about our money, so we protect our banks with
armed guards. American airports, office buildings, power plants,
courthouses — even sports stadiums — are all protected by armed
security.
We care about the President, so we protect him with armed Secret
Service agents. Members of Congress work in offices surrounded by
armed Capitol Police officers.

source

Mod Note: IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS - Please Review This Link. Note: A "snippet" of text = less than 10%

Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

reply to post by watchitburn


Yep, heard that on NPR today, and the NRA is exactly right.

"THE ONLY THING that will stop a bad-guy with a gun is a good-guy with a gun."

(emphasis mine)

Of course, other "bad guys" kill gun-weilding "bad guys" every day.

But at least if schools are armed, KIDS WILL BE PROTECTED.