The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past.

Originally posted by Julie Washington

"There is thus no constitutional protection whatsoever for the semiautomatic rifle that killed the kids in Newtown."

The Second Amendment is a relic of the founding era more than two centuries ago. Its purpose is long past. As Justice John Paul Stevens argues persuasively, the amendment should not block the ability of society to keep itself safe through gun control legislation. That was never its intent. This amendment was about militias in the 1790s, and the fear of the anti-federalists of a federal army. Since that issue is long moot, we need not be governed in our national life by doctrines on now-extinct militias from the 18th century.

Source

This is an excellent article the explains the reasons the 2nd amendment was created, and how it's been used in the SCOTUS.

The purpose of the Second Amendment was to prevent the new Federal Government established in 1789 from disarming the state militias and replacing them with a Federal standing army. It was a concern that was relevant perhaps for a few years around the birth of the country. It is irrelevant today. Americans do not rely on state militias in 2012 for our freedom from the federal government

Now is the time to establish new gun control laws and perhaps an all out ban on all automatic and semi automatic weapons.

Only, if you are a LEFT WING LIBERAL who doesn't understand the RIGHTS and RESPONSIBILITIES to have and keep FREEDOM ! I am sorry you feel that way and honestly, if you want America to be the way most LEFT WING LIBERALS want it to be, then you people need to give up your US Citizenship and move in with Hugo Chavez and Sean Penn.

Originally posted by Julie Washington

"There is thus no constitutional protection whatsoever for the semiautomatic rifle that killed the kids in Newtown."

The Second Amendment is a relic of the founding era more than two centuries ago. Its purpose is long past. As Justice John Paul Stevens argues persuasively, the amendment should not block the ability of society to keep itself safe through gun control legislation. That was never its intent. This amendment was about militias in the 1790s, and the fear of the anti-federalists of a federal army. Since that issue is long moot, we need not be governed in our national life by doctrines on now-extinct militias from the 18th century.

Source

This is an excellent article the explains the reasons the 2nd amendment was created, and how it's been used in the SCOTUS.

The purpose of the Second Amendment was to prevent the new Federal Government established in 1789 from disarming the state militias and replacing them with a Federal standing army. It was a concern that was relevant perhaps for a few years around the birth of the country. It is irrelevant today. Americans do not rely on state militias in 2012 for our freedom from the federal government

Now is the time to establish new gun control laws and perhaps an all out ban on all automatic and semi automatic weapons.

umm....yea.....

piers morgan said something to the same affect as the OP. I agree with the rebuttal. Here is a screenshot of the short twitter battle. IMO...piers...you pwned.




also, does anyone know how to post and image directly without "external link" thing? If you do, please post or PM me.

Originally posted by elysiumfire

The logistics is easy. You first set up a timed amnesty for relinquishing guns that become by law illegal to own. You can set up centres for dropping them off, or you can simply take them to your local police station. Be under no illusion, once the amnesty runs out, if you have not handed in your illegal gun, robust policing will take them from you.

As you are quite well aware, all guns are serialised and entered onto a database containing names and addresses. If you've sold it privately, you should have informed the relevant authorities that you have done so, giving the name and address of the buyer. This you did because you are a law-abiding citizen, you are not a criminal. If the police have not received confirmation that you handed in your AK-47, or your M16, listen out for the knock on your door...what! you're gonna meet the cops with a gun! Let me know where I can send the flowers for your grave!

There's just a little fly in that ointment, bub. The US Constitution specifically forbids EX POST FACTO laws. So how is the government going to make all guns illegal without that process being patently and obviously unconstitutional?

As far as cops going door to door to unconstitutionally round up all the guns, well I predict that yes, the gun owner answering the door with a gun will be killed. But so will the first cop knocking on the door. Maybe even one or two others standing on the porch. Eventually, the cops will run out of volunteers to be that FIRST person a long long time before the US citizens start running out of people answering their doors with guns at the ready. Eventually people will get fed up over this and take the fight directly to those who have now become the enemy killing our friends and neighbors. Ugly situation? Oh yeah.

There are a LOT of us out here that just will not tolerate ANYONE trying to confiscate our personal possessions, no matter what sort of "law" the confiscators want to dream up in order to do that.

Heck, Americans have volunteered to be shipped off to other countries to fight for the freedom of those people. Do you seriously think we won't fight like hell HERE when OUR freedom is in jeopardy?

i'm alive the second emmendment is still alive.

reply to post by Julie Washington


Lol this is absurd. Read the militia act, it makes it very clear that all able males should keep a military style rifle and ammo. It is to keep us from having to fear tyranny. It is not outdated and anyone that thinks we need gun control laws needs educated.

Rich z:

The US Constitution specifically forbids EX POST FACTO laws. So how is the government going to make all guns illegal without that process being patently and obviously unconstitutional?

Probably the same way it ex post factored the imprisonment of Americans unconstitutionally without access to a lawyer, family, or due process law. There is currently a bill going through which has had a clause removed from it that argued against indefinite detention of Americans by the military. The fact that it has been removed, means that it is not up for discussion, and so indefinite detention of Americans by their military may just become law! Like the former unconstitutional law, the the latter law looks like it will receive the same amount of resistance from gun owners...which was none at all! Well done there! Keep claiming your gun protects you from tyranny. If you say it often enough, people may start believing you.

As far as cops going door to door to unconstitutionally round up all the guns, well I predict that yes, the gun owner answering the door with a gun will be killed. But so will the first cop knocking on the door. Maybe even one or two others standing on the porch.

I see. So after the first cop is gunned down, your suggesting that law enforcers are too stupid to change tactics? What makes you think they are going to knock on the door after that? You people really are fantasists! You think up fairytales and try to pass them off as rational thinking, and then believe them to be the scenario that will follow. If they come for your guns, they will get them, either 'over your dead body', or 'prying them from your cold dead fingers'.

Eventually people will get fed up over this and take the fight directly to those who have now become the enemy killing our friends and neighbors. Ugly situation? Oh yeah. There are a LOT of us out here that just will not tolerate ANYONE trying to confiscate our personal possessions, no matter what sort of "law" the confiscators want to dream up in order to do that.

Oh hum (sigh), more internet bravado. Just what exactly do the law makers and shifters have to do before you guys actually respond to their unconstitutional reforms? The world was expecting you to rise up when George Bush was in power, but no, not a single peep!

Heck, Americans have volunteered to be shipped off to other countries to fight for the freedom of those people. Do you seriously think we won't fight like hell HERE when OUR freedom is in jeopardy?

Absolutely! I believe with expectation that you won't fight as a united force. I expect there to be a few Waco-style incidents, then you'll all line up willingly to hand them over, because eventually you'll see the sense in accepting the banning of semi and automatic firearms being better than incarceration or death, especially the deaths of more children.

As for volunteering to be shipped off to other countries for the so-called freedom of others, Americans are not the only nationality to have done that. I'm quite sure that the million plus Iraqis western military forces killed are in heaven as we speak, dancing and singing with joy at the way they were liberated, everything single man, woman, and child of them.

reply to post by redrose123


Let's not get foolish with this non-argument and pay attention to the facts.

I find it funny how people complain about this and complain about that but never actually get off of their feet, roll their sleeves up and observe the 2nd amendment in it's truest form.

Armchair patriots.

reply to post by VaterOrlaag


the second amendment. ah, the means of putting guns of any type in the hands of law abiding people. you can buy guns from a black market, or from legal or private means from friend to friend. armchair patriots? hmm well if armchair patriots intend to voice their opinion, then us real patriots have some b.s. ing to do

Originally posted by Julie Washington

"There is thus no constitutional protection whatsoever for the semiautomatic rifle that killed the kids in Newtown."

The Second Amendment is a relic of the founding era more than two centuries ago. Its purpose is long past. As Justice John Paul Stevens argues persuasively, the amendment should not block the ability of society to keep itself safe through gun control legislation. That was never its intent. This amendment was about militias in the 1790s, and the fear of the anti-federalists of a federal army. Since that issue is long moot, we need not be governed in our national life by doctrines on now-extinct militias from the 18th century.

Source

This is an excellent article the explains the reasons the 2nd amendment was created, and how it's been used in the SCOTUS.

The purpose of the Second Amendment was to prevent the new Federal Government established in 1789 from disarming the state militias and replacing them with a Federal standing army. It was a concern that was relevant perhaps for a few years around the birth of the country. It is irrelevant today. Americans do not rely on state militias in 2012 for our freedom from the federal government

Now is the time to establish new gun control laws and perhaps an all out ban on all automatic and semi automatic weapons.

Actually, I think America should be split in half. With communist's, socialist's and other collectivists who want to be slaves moving to one area of the Union, and freedom loving people can move to another part of the Union. The simple fact is that leftists like you are salivating at the idea of disarming Americans because you either want to kill those who oppose you or because you want to enslave those that disagree with you.

Every-time gun control has been enacted, thousands either die from run-away crime or millions die at the hand of human rights violators and traitors like you. Most of the world has strict gun control law's so you have a myriad of nations to chose from as people like you will only push the union into another civil war.

I believe that you're an moron. I think this because you just said the Second Amendment is a Relic. Let me expand on this, you said that the kids were killed by his semi auto rifle. The children were killed by two pistols, the semi auto rifle was left in his vehicle. The second amendment is there so the people can defend their family's and their liberties. The founding fathers worded the second amendment in such a way to make sure that civilians had the ability to fight back against modern military's. They weren't morons, they knew technology would advance.

Originally posted by PrplHrt
This thread is one of the reasons I hate the young.

We gave you a beautiful free country and you're pissing it away.

You don't deserve it.

Not to point out the obvious gramps:
Reverse Discrimination(Affirmative Action)
Waco & Ruby Ridge(free country ehh?)
Indentured Servitude/Peonage(nice to know the 13th Amendment still applies)
Prison industry
War on Drugs
Assault Rifle ban
Income Tax
EPA
NWO
I am going to sleep now,
I am sure many people could list all the unfree stuff that happened during the geezer generations( Gen X and older) time.

reply to post by Julie Washington


Try it. Let lead decide because telling you to leave the constitution alone isn't working. Please, try and appeal the 2nd amendment.

There is going to be a lot more dead bodies. No, not murder of innocent people, but whoever tries to take the weapons.

Do people see why I constantly say War is the only thing that matters? Im telling you no, don't touch the 2nd amendment, my RIGHT. You won't listen. The only way to solve that is through war because I said no, and many others are saying no and you are saying screw our rights. Fine then, let lead and blood decide.

Hopefully a Revolution starts if they try and appeal the 2nd amendment. Which they won't , I promise.

If you do not like the constitution, then please, get the hell out. Try London out, instead of being shot to death, they will stab or beat you to death.

Originally posted by Preacher76
I believe that you're an moron. I think this because you just said the Second Amendment is a Relic. Let me expand on this, you said that the kids were killed by his semi auto rifle. The children were killed by two pistols, the semi auto rifle was left in his vehicle. The second amendment is there so the people can defend their family's and their liberties. The founding fathers worded the second amendment in such a way to make sure that civilians had the ability to fight back against modern military's. They weren't morons, they knew technology would advance.

edit on 21-12-2012 by Preacher76 because: Expanding on statement.

There is no point. The people you are trying to debate want you either dead or in a re-education/work camps. That is why they fight to outlaw guns so hard. Because they can't hurt you until your ability to defend yourself is totally stripped away. The 2nd Amendment is getting in their way of controlling you. They are sick psychopathic control freaks that want to force their world view onto everyone else while stealing from everyone else(this same crowd tends to not believe in national borders and/or personnel property rights).

If you want to get back at the gun control lobby do two things:

1) Demand an excise tax on Coffee
2) Stop doing business with pro-gun control companies.

"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."

Thomas Paine
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"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. "

Noah Webster

American Lexicographer
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"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."

Edmund Burke

British Statesman, 1784
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"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."

Thomas Jefferson

to James Madison

reply to post by Julie Washington


"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

George Washington

First President of the United States

-----

You are so foolish if you think Tyranny and greed is not in our government and will be a thousand fold without weapons.

Give teachers the means to defend themselves and their students. Why do these murders go to schools and campuses?? Because they do not shoot BACK. They can murder and murder to their hearts delight. Give the teachers the means in which to defend themselves and their students.

reply to post by Julie Washington


Couldn't agree more, probably because I'm not an american.
But I'd imagine every country had these kind of laws a few hundred years ago too, back when they were actually needed, its about time america got with the modern world. obviously america is part of the west so it is well modernised, But if people can't grow up with their views on homosexuality, immigration, and let's say religion then there's an obvious problem.

CNN and fox news are making you very ill you really need to stop watching that crap.you also are one that needs to rub two of the three brain cells you have left together and maybe get a clue.very sad indeed.

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by Preacher76
I believe that you're an moron. I think this because you just said the Second Amendment is a Relic. Let me expand on this, you said that the kids were killed by his semi auto rifle. The children were killed by two pistols, the semi auto rifle was left in his vehicle. The second amendment is there so the people can defend their family's and their liberties. The founding fathers worded the second amendment in such a way to make sure that civilians had the ability to fight back against modern military's. They weren't morons, they knew technology would advance.

edit on 21-12-2012 by Preacher76 because: Expanding on statement.

There is no point. The people you are trying to debate want you either dead or in a re-education/work camps. That is why they fight to outlaw guns so hard. Because they can't hurt you until your ability to defend yourself is totally stripped away. The 2nd Amendment is getting in their way of controlling you. They are sick psychopathic control freaks that want to force their world view onto everyone else while stealing from everyone else(this same crowd tends to not believe in national borders and/or personnel property rights).

If you want to get back at the gun control lobby do two things:

1) Demand an excise tax on Coffee
2) Stop doing business with pro-gun control companies.

I do not want you dead or in a work camp.
I want you to grow up and smell the roses.
You can actually get a nice bit of freedom from your government "oppressors" if you stop going on about it, ignore their crap, and get on with your life doing as you wish.
As long as what you want to do doesn't conflict with what someone else wants to do, like everyone doesn't get. For example- I'd like to live without fear of someone picking up an m4 and tearing me apart.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Julie Washington

 

Try it. Let lead decide because telling you to leave the constitution alone isn't working. Please, try and appeal the 2nd amendment.

There is going to be a lot more dead bodies. No, not murder of innocent people, but whoever tries to take the weapons.

Do people see why I constantly say War is the only thing that matters? Im telling you no, don't touch the 2nd amendment, my RIGHT. You won't listen. The only way to solve that is through war because I said no, and many others are saying no and you are saying screw our rights. Fine then, let lead and blood decide.

Hopefully a Revolution starts if they try and appeal the 2nd amendment. Which they won't , I promise.

If you do not like the constitution, then please, get the hell out. Try London out, instead of being shot to death, they will stab or beat you to death.

edit on 21-12-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

I can't begin to explain why what you've just said is so messed up.
You people are backwards. The only people who think like you are yourselves.

reply to post by Wongbeedman


Why do you think we broke from um ... YOU people, oh, and defeated you? Not to mention, and then saved you. Stupid Americans and our guns right?