Why does America Want Guns? Following the latest shootings.

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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
UK or Germany; flip a coin.

ATTENTION!!!!

Please address the topic and not make this personal.

Look...this is a horrendous situation.

How about we try to DENY IGNORANCE and discuss it like civilized adults and not exercise a similar lack of impulse control and paranoia that precipitated this entire horror.

Just try to be nice...

Originally posted by LPOPranger
reply to post by SpearMint

 

I am not trying to offend you! it is just you cherry pick numbers at a ratio of 3 to 1 and try to make a point. You must be very young and and look at the world through rose colored glasses. If I knew that no one else would ever be harmed by a weapon (My wife and daughter) I would get rid of them tomorrow. But, that is not reality and if someone ever tries to come here and harm them it will be their last act on this earth. Wake up this is not pretend time or make a wish; the world is cruel and if you don't or won't protct you own you are a POS. Not every gun ower is a nut; don't paint the US with one stroke of the brush.

I'm not cherry picking any numbers, I just showed statistics per 100k population. You can't get fairer than that.

The US has a much higher murder rate. Fact. The vast majority of those are gun related. Fact.

Originally posted by LPOPranger
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

UK or Germany; flip a coin.

Huh

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by SpearMint

 

It is a proven fact that communities with a high percentage of Heavily Armed Citizens have very small Crime Rates. I live in such a community. Crime is almost non-existent.

The Local Police hold a Father/Son/Daughter Gun Safety Course every year for several weeks. A Child must be 14 and this course teaches everything there is to know about Handguns, Rifles, Shotguns, Muskets, Compound Bows, Recurve Bows and the Ammo or Arrow Heads or Points that are available.

I myself went though this course as a 14 year old and it taught me to respect any weapon as well as know how to hold them and safely fire rounds and arrows. It taught me responsibility as well as respect for others and respect for dangerous weapons.

In the History of this course which has run for over 5 decades there has never been a child in my town that has accidentally been shot or accidentally shot themselves.

Split Infinity

I live in a community were crime is virtually non-existent, and we don't have guns. You have to look at the whole picture, and the statistics don't lie.

Originally posted by letseeit7
reply to post by manmental

 

To keep our govt. in check , take away the guns and only criminals will have them . Many reasons , protection from criminals . People will always find ways to kill each other . Do you know that more people are killed with baseball bats than guns ! Lets ban those bats.

Really -- just what action is the government that is actually going to take you to the streets in a country that has a population of over 300 million people with the largest military in the world. I am tired of your phallic daydream. I'm not kidding -- give me a scenario that has you with a semi automatic assault weapon in the streets - being anything other than dead and ineffectual.

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by LPOPranger
reply to post by SpearMint

 

I am not trying to offend you! it is just you cherry pick numbers at a ratio of 3 to 1 and try to make a point. You must be very young and and look at the world through rose colored glasses. If I knew that no one else would ever be harmed by a weapon (My wife and daughter) I would get rid of them tomorrow. But, that is not reality and if someone ever tries to come here and harm them it will be their last act on this earth. Wake up this is not pretend time or make a wish; the world is cruel and if you don't or won't protct you own you are a POS. Not every gun ower is a nut; don't paint the US with one stroke of the brush.

I'm not cherry picking any numbers, I just showed statistics per 100k population. You can't get fairer than that.

The US has a much higher murder rate. Fact. The vast majority of those are gun related. Fact.

Excuse me!
What?

The US has a much higher murder rate. Fact. The vast majority of those are gun related. Fact.

Levels of gun violence vary greatly across the world, with very high rates in Brazil, Venezuela, Mexico, South Africa, Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Jamaica, as well as high levels in Russia, The Philippines, Thailand, and some other underdeveloped countries, Levels of gun violence are low in Singapore, Japan, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and many other countries.[8] The United States has the highest rate of gun related injuries (not deaths per capita) among developed countries, though they also have the highest rate of gun ownership and highest rate of officers

en.wikipedia.org...

You might also like to look at this site for more information. List of countries by firearm-related death rate. en.wikipedia.org...

It is an Absolute Disgrace to use the Sad, Sad Deaths of Innocent People to try and Move Forward an Agenda that Law Abiding Gun Owners All Over The World Does Not Want.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
Like the mod said .... horrendous situation...... I am done with this conversation; we all have our opinion. Some have fought for it on the battle fields and some from their PC's. I just pray for the folks who lost a loved one today. I could not deal with that kind of loss! May God comfort them and keep them close during this time. Good Bye.

Originally posted by LPOPranger
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

I hear you Split Infinaty; people make comments here who have never been anywhere but the next block! I too have been around this world more times than I can count and I thank God everyday that I live where I do!

In Europe an Owner of a street side Cafe or Restaurant acts as the "Patron". Their concept of business and the relationship with the customer can be summed up as...It is fortunate for you the customer to be allowed to dine and spend your money in our establishment.

In the U.S. the Customer is ALWAYS right.

There is a lingering aristocracy of the haves and have not's in Europe as where in the U.S. a business owner will go out of their way to please the customer.

Being a 6 foot 1 inch American who is muscular as well as well trained in various arts...I tend to be a Parisian Waiters Nightmare. In France there is ZERO incentive for a waiter or waitress to do a good job serving you as their tip is automatically built in to your bill.

If I feel I am being treated contrary to the way I treat others...that being with dignity and respect...I get a bit...testy. This of course translates to the waiters as some American who wants them dead! LOL!

I do not go so far but they are not used to anyone rocking the boat. I love to ROCK! LOL!

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SpearMint
the statistics don't lie.

Actually, using statistics to lie is incredibly easy. Using numbers when percentages should be used, or vice versa, selecting only certain cross sections of data that help your argument, etc.

Additionally, statistics can ONLY show correlation, they CANNOT in any way show causation. So they are utterly worthless in claiming one thing causes another.

reply to post by SpearMint


May I ask where you live? Or at the very least what country and territory of?

Split Infinity

With the things going on in the world how can anyone mention getting rid of guns. Governments are getting bold.

Seeing as you are from England I totally understand that your country controls every facet of your life and you are used to it. I meant the EU controls your life.

We do not want that. Your government gets away with anything because the people do not have the means to fight back even if they wanted to.

The propaganda exists in the MSM to blame guns. We see the argument today and yet there is no one on the other side defending gun ownership in the U.S.

People die in inner cities all the time and I would bet 99% of the guns are illegally owned.

Former Criminals cannot legally own guns in the U.S. yet a lot of the people who are involved in crimes in the inner-city are former criminals and should of never have been allowed a gun. Yet THEY have them. The criminals will always have guns. Always. Most of the killing in American inner cities are between criminals killing each other. Gun laws haven't stopped that. They haven't suddenly started to stab each other.

From personal experience:
1. In the northeast cities people do not generally own guns and home invasions are a norm, so common as to not be reported.
2. In the south, a lot of people own guns and home invasions are rare. If you hear of a robbery it will be at a bank, the bank will not shoot back. lol

All criminals want to be successful in their endeavors, they will ALWAYS choose the EASIEST target. This idiot today chose to kill kids and women. By taking away guns, you will make every person an easy target.

I used to feel the way you do, until I saw the other side. More guns actually reduce crime. You have to look at the LOCATIONS these killings are done. I can bet money that most of these killings are done in states that have strict gun laws so as to make only the criminals desire to own them.

I live in NJ and the gun laws here are onerous, yet my neighbor had a gun pointed at her face and her Mercedes Benz stolen. The person was obviously not a law abiding citizen. Criminals will always commit crimes and banning guns will not stop that.

I would note that this would rarely happen in the South. The person would have to be a really easy target for someone to even try to do something so bold. These heinous crimes happen in states that are liberal, and try to restrict guns.

Gun ownership is one of the main reasons America historically has had so few wars on its own soil. LOL They aren't successful because the ENTIRE nation forms an army. lol

reply to post by LPOPranger


Yup I agree, tensions run high at times like this and we are bound to disagree with each other on such a day like today.
But lets not fall out people eh?
We are members of ATS we are all here because we feel something is up with the world and together we can make it a better place.
Take care all.
RIP little ones.

Originally posted by guohua

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by LPOPranger
reply to post by SpearMint

 

I am not trying to offend you! it is just you cherry pick numbers at a ratio of 3 to 1 and try to make a point. You must be very young and and look at the world through rose colored glasses. If I knew that no one else would ever be harmed by a weapon (My wife and daughter) I would get rid of them tomorrow. But, that is not reality and if someone ever tries to come here and harm them it will be their last act on this earth. Wake up this is not pretend time or make a wish; the world is cruel and if you don't or won't protct you own you are a POS. Not every gun ower is a nut; don't paint the US with one stroke of the brush.

I'm not cherry picking any numbers, I just showed statistics per 100k population. You can't get fairer than that.

The US has a much higher murder rate. Fact. The vast majority of those are gun related. Fact.

Excuse me!
What?

The US has a much higher murder rate. Fact. The vast majority of those are gun related. Fact.

Levels of gun violence vary greatly across the world, with very high rates in Brazil, Venezuela, Mexico, South Africa, Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, and Jamaica, as well as high levels in Russia, The Philippines, Thailand, and some other underdeveloped countries, Levels of gun violence are low in Singapore, Japan, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and many other countries.[8] The United States has the highest rate of gun related injuries (not deaths per capita) among developed countries, though they also have the highest rate of gun ownership and highest rate of officers

en.wikipedia.org...

You might also like to look at this site for more information. List of countries by firearm-related death rate. en.wikipedia.org...

It is an Absolute Disgrace to use the Sad, Sad Deaths of Innocent People to try and Move Forward an Agenda that Law Abiding Gun Owners All Over The World Does Not Want.

edit on 14-12-2012 by guohua because: (no reason given)

I didn't say it has the highest in the world. It's very bad compared to places with gun control.

Look at that link yourself. US gun murder rate: 9, UK: 0.22. Look at the countries that have worse rates than the US, that's nothing to be proud of. The whole point was to compare the US with countries that have gun control, you're comparing the US to the most homicidal countries in the world and saying it's not that bad.

Originally posted by SilentKoala

Originally posted by SpearMint
the statistics don't lie.

Actually, using statistics to lie is incredibly easy. Using numbers when percentages should be used, or vice versa, selecting only certain cross sections of data that help your argument, etc.

Additionally, statistics can ONLY show correlation, they CANNOT in any way show causation. So they are utterly worthless in claiming one thing causes another.

edit on 14-12-2012 by SilentKoala because: (no reason given)

Per 100k population is just as fair as percentages. There is a very strong correlation between guns and murder rates, it is obviously the cause, but that can't be proven unless someone magically made all guns vanish. If you've seen the numbers and still don't believe guns are the cause of your extremely high murder rate, then you must be in denial. It's obvious.

reply to post by boymonkey74
Bless you brother! It was a horrible day and this debate takes away from the heart felt loss. I know, I said good bye but you responce touched my heart; and I had to reply. I can't begin to imagine what the parents of those little babies are going through! They will be in my prayers tonight. It is not about guns, or knivies, or clubs....ect. It is about when will we as humans learn to love each other as brothers and sisters. Only the perp knows why he did what he did and it is out of our hands we can't change it. I got sucked in to the US verses the world/gun debate. it is not about that; tonight parents are coming to odds with the loss of their 5 - 6 year old. No one should have to do that!

reply to post by manmental



What about this angle though? One knucklehead goes bizerk with a gun out of billions with guns. If you were a teacher there in Connecticut today, would you have rather had a gun or had yours outlawed?

If Presidents have the power to choose what rights we shall have then we don't have a President - we have a dictator.
America isn't ready for one of those just yet.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well, in terms of the President allowing them....contrary to the image the last couple have projected, the U.S. Presidency is actually intended to be a position of limited power. Congress makes law. The Supers say what law actually is in the end and the President enforces and regulates it.

I.E... It's not up to him. Congress would have to agree...both sides.. Republicans and Democrats together. I'm betting against that unity, personally. Especially on this. Then the court just zaps it again anyway. They've been making a habit of doing that to Obama's things in recent years.


Personally? I own firearms because I hunt and I enjoy the shooting sports. I target shoot and do tactical simulation shooting on some land nearby occasionally. It's relaxing, believe it or not....as odd as that may sound to someone who doesn't shoot. Although the guy who finds a quicker way to clean them will retire more wealthy than Gates.

I carry a firearm because the world is not a nice place and it's full of very 'not nice' people. I've written myself a little scanner App for PC's based around the Radio Reference site feeds and use it to listen to my various feeds here locally. Since I started that, I've come to realize even my quiet area here is not nearly as quiet as the city goes to great effort to make it appear. It's actually a real busy place for the cops all night, every night. That's why it's a very good place for my CCW as the laws apply ...and hoping it's never more than academic and shooting on a range.

As much as I'd like to agree, I don't think it will play our that way. Obama has a habit of bypassing congress with executive orders. He may try that trick here.

And yeah, target shooting is relaxing. And good hand eye coordination practice.

And to those that "don't believe in guns" (an argument that I get) it doesn't matter. The bad guys DO believe in guns.

Chew on that. And hope Obama doesn't disarm the sheep. The wolves will not be disarmed. And where does that leave us?

Unprotected sheep.

And the wolves... they are hungry.