Is the Christian Trinity a Conspiracy ?

reply to post by NarrowGate

narrow gate,

www.bluehearttravel.com...

Please look at this picture, the golden statue of Mary infront of Zagreb Catherdral, which is the main Catholic church in Croatia. They state this is MARY, but its not, its the LADY from chapter 12 in Revelation, this statue has a crescent below and 12 stars above its head and in the water the heads of 4 beast.

TRUTH HURTS.

reply to post by dave13


The truth only hurts if you've tried to convince yourself it's a lie. But I guess that still applies.

reply to post by NarrowGate

You promote sin because you value the experience, reject Jesus, and reject eternal life.

Why did you bother asking me for that quote when you knew it was there? because you are freaking annoying as well, and expected me to do what I always do and just ignore your garbage. This is the last time I will bother, your intentions are clear.

From the other thread you rudely continue to derail. Allow me to explain my view to you.

You cannot appreciate a good apple if you have never tasted a rotten one. Hence, the necessity for sin. Unless you know darkness, you cannot truly know what the light is. Why do you think soldiers always come home with a deep fondness for their family? They know what darkness is. They have shaken hands with it. And they never, ever want to lose the reasons they have to live. I wouldn't expect a judgmental person like you to understand, but that just shows the youth of your soul. It's no skin off of my back.

I don't reject Jesus, I just don't care. I personally believe the exact same result can be achieved by emulating Martin Luther King, Ghandi, or Mother Theresa. Research any peacekeeper and you have a model to follow. It's not necessary that you become them, but just practice what they practiced. See life how they saw it. That, in itself, is enough to make a difference. Just to step in their shoes for a while. A shift in perspective, to help you understand. I don't think Jesus needs my soul. I think he had important messages, but that's all. He was an example, not a mold. I think your life is a pretty pathetic waste if you're always trying to be someone you obviously can never be. You will always fail, and that will always drag you down, and you will always PUT yourself down by convincing yourself you're not worthy. That's not healthy.

Eternal life is a curse. What do you do with eternal life? Why do you want eternal life? Because you're afraid of dying? I'm not afraid of dying, because there is no end. Dying is wiping the hard drive and putting it into another computer with a new operating system and everything. I'm not afraid of death, because death is not permanent. It's just a change. And you know what? Change is good. Change helps to keep things in motion, otherwise they stop moving and it's game over. Motion is required to keep moving forward, and if death is necessary to make progress, I will gladly shake hands with the Grim Reaper and walk with him like a brother.

I do not allow my emotions to deter me. If I don't like something, that's because I am not at peace with myself. And to be quite honest, there seems to be a lot of that going around. Who here is TRULY at peace with themselves? That might explain their fear of death. There is unresolved conflict, and they regret it. And that's what kills me about Christianity.

IT INSTILLS CONFLICT. If you are not in conflict with your neighbor, you are in conflict with yourself because you refuse to admit you can be as good as Jesus, or as good as "God". You refuse to admit you are worthy of anything except "God"s personal footstool. And that, people of ATS, is why I reject it. I refuse to consider myself unworthy, because I believe in my heart that I can MAKE myself worthy. I don't need to be a lackey. Any true father of mine will take my hand and happily pull me up to sit beside him, because there is ALWAYS room for his children to sit beside him. There is always room for his pride and joy to be close to him. And he asks nothing except that I be happy for who I am.

There's a huge difference between respecting yourself and demanding the respect of others, and your inferiors giving you respect without coercion. If I must be coerced, then it is not true. Fearful loyalty is true torment, because you will forever serve a being you loathe.

I don't need Jesus. I will make myself worthy OF MYSELF. And first, I must come to peace with myself. And you know what? I'm halfway there.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz

as well as 6 parts.

It's obvious to me you don't even know the first thing about blasphemy.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


All I will comment for now is that you do need Jesus, and you will regret your rejection of him for Eternity. If you would like for me to explain why, I will. It is not something I can explain without you being open to it. I would probably be able to put a perspective on things you have never heard before.

I can tell you this much, and I know this for certain: Satan has a strong hold on you, and is using your intelligence to his advantage. Does that mean you are a "bad person"? Not necessarily no. You are proud of your intelligence which is exactly what he wants. If there is no pride attached to intelligence it is generally not harmful at all.

By the way, if you want I will break down your post for you and apply the Truth as I know it to your beliefs, and tell you specifically how Satan has a hold on you through your intelligence.


also, the "grim reaper" is real and is actually an angel. Do you know which one?

Originally posted by dave13
reply to post by truejew

 

How do we know for sure that JESUS IS GOD? We do not know this!!! He could just be a prophet, Jesus said there is only one father, we are his children and with the help of the Holy spirit and JESUS name is the only way can go to the father who is GOD

So Trinity is mentioned, but not as one person.

We know that Jesus is God because He claimed to be, prophecy said He would be, and the apostles claim He is.

Trinitarians ignore Jesus' humanity. Others go to far the other way and ignore His divinity. The true Church understands that Jesus was both and that His Spirit, God, humbled Himself.

Philippians 2:6-8 (KJV)
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


AFTER INFINNITY,

The "so-called" truth is a lie and it bothers me.

reply to post by truejew


True JEW,

Narrow- gate believes that the the HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH is the same as GOD, with no mistakes.

but you always mention the words in the Bible, which I respect, but again is the big Question who wrote the Bible, as I do not believe in Adam and Eve, and as you know my belive that REVELATION and Paul teachings are against JESUS. So if they manipulated these books, they could have written other parts that are not true.

I do believe in JESUS, but is he GOD, maybe , maybe not?? The VATICAN KNOWS THE TRUTH and a small group of people that run the world.

True-JEW , not one religion on this planet is STRONGER then the VATICAN, they hold all the secrets regarding religions and JESUS. As now after many years of reseach I know the VATICAN is fully against JESUS. VATICAN AND ISLAM work as one, CONTROL AND DIVIDE, but I do not want to push this subject, as I'm all over the place.

You know very well how many people were killed who tried to push the truth in the last 2000 years, who won at the end writes history and the Bible. I have Jewish friends that believe in JESUS and they also know that the powers of this world do not want the truth to come out, as they do not want peace,

Just look at NARROW GATE, he states that we are under SATAN, THAT WE ARE HERITICS, what we push is Blasphemy, he sounds like the priest from Rome in the dark ages just before they burned their victims on a stake. How many people were killed regarding the church councils who had a different way of thinking??

The people that run this world control all the religions. So how can you be 100% postive that the words in the Bible have not been played with??'

You will see in the next few years how the dead sea scrolls come out with new findings regarding the truth on JESUS or some other document.

reply to post by dave13


I stopped reading after the first sentence. The Roman Catholic Church is God's Church. I never said anything contrary to that.

Further, stop riding his

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by dave13
reply to post by truejew

 

How do we know for sure that JESUS IS GOD? We do not know this!!! He could just be a prophet, Jesus said there is only one father, we are his children and with the help of the Holy spirit and JESUS name is the only way can go to the father who is GOD

So Trinity is mentioned, but not as one person.

We know that Jesus is God because He claimed to be, prophecy said He would be, and the apostles claim He is.



Philippians 2:6-8 (KJV)
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Hi truejew///

I am in agreement with you , but on this quote///

Trinitarians ignore Jesus' humanity. Others go to far the other way and ignore His divinity. The true Church understands that Jesus was both and that His Spirit, God, humbled Himself.

You are mistaken...
You cannot ignore Christs Humanity or His Divinity...“FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT
have One Nature, One Essence.
Thus the Three Persons are the Trinity, One in Essence...ONE GOD!

“And God appeared to him by the oak of Mamre, as Abraham sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day. He lifted up his eyes and looked, and beholds three men stood before him. When he saw them, he ran from the door of the tent to meet them. He bowed himself down to the earth and said, ‘Lord (sing.), if I have found favor in Thy (sing.) sight, do not pass by Thy (sing.) servant” (Genesis 18:1-3)
Some Holy Scripture references on the Most Holy Trinity” Whom Abraham addressed in the Old Testament among the three angels symbolize the Trinity, and that is whom Abraham was talking to was God the Son, the God of the Old Testament. Read Genesis 1:27. Read first Psalm 32:6 and then read Job 33:4. Daniel 3:8-30. As God as the consuming fire read Deut. 4:24; Heb. 12:29........................

~Here is more on the above quote~
Hope you find the Link informative!

ICXC NIKA

Originally posted by helen6700
reply to post by truejew

 

You are mistaken...

No, I am correct. Trinitarians ignore Christ's humanity. They think that their three gods/persons doctrine is necessary to explain the Son of God praying to the Father. They ignore the fact that the Son of God simply prayed to the Father because He was a man.

The three men mentioned in your quote were three separate beings. Saying that they symbolize the trinity would be admitting that the trinity is three separate beings and therefore three gods.

Also the "God the Son" mentioned in your quote does not exist. There is the Son of God, who was born a little over 2000 years ago, but no eternal "God the Son".

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by helen6700
reply to post by truejew

 

You are mistaken...

No, I am correct. Trinitarians ignore Christ's humanity. They think that their three gods/persons doctrine is necessary to explain the Son of God praying to the Father. They ignore the fact that the Son of God simply prayed to the Father because He was a man.

The three men mentioned in your quote were three separate beings. Saying that they symbolize the trinity would be admitting that the trinity is three separate beings and therefore three gods.

Also the "God the Son" mentioned in your quote does not exist. There is the Son of God, who was born a little over 2000 years ago, but no eternal "God the Son".

Hi Again///

The Son of God was also present when the Father created the universe....
The LOGOS (WORD) is the Son of God.
You haven't read the link I posted....
What do you make of this?

“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”.
Then the Jews said to Him..... “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them........“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am”. (John 8:56-58)


ICXC NIKA

Originally posted by helen6700
reply to post by truejew

 

The Son of God was also present when the Father created the universe....

The Son of God, the Father manifest in flesh, did not physically exist before his birth around 2000 years ago. However, God knew of His future plan at the creation. It is only in that way that the Son of God was with the Father at creation.

John 3:16-17 (KJV)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Originally posted by helen6700

You haven't read the link I posted....

Why would I want to read the link when the quote you posted from it was far from truth.

Originally posted by helen6700

“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”.
Then the Jews said to Him..... “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them........“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am”. (John 8:56-58)

The Spirit of the Son of God, the Father, had no beginning.

reply to post by truejew

The Son of God, the Father manifest in flesh, did not physically exist before his birth around 2000 years ago. However, God knew of His future plan at the creation. It is only in that way that the Son of God was with the Father at creation.

I have been staying out of the frey, but I want to ask you this, do you think he existed in spirit form before he existed in physical form ? I agree Jesus had no physical form until his birth on earth. But I believe as the bible teaches he is the first borne of all creation, of course he is a spirit, this precludes a physical body at creation.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

reply to post by truejew

 

The Son of God, the Father manifest in flesh, did not physically exist before his birth around 2000 years ago. However, God knew of His future plan at the creation. It is only in that way that the Son of God was with the Father at creation.

I have been staying out of the frey, but I want to ask you this, do you think he existed in spirit form before he existed in physical form ? I agree Jesus had no physical form until his birth on earth. But I believe as the bible teaches he is the first borne of all creation, of course he is a spirit, this precludes a physical body at creation.

His Spirit is the Father and is eternal. He was a human, like you and I, but with the difference that His Spirit was God the Father and is eternal.

It is correct to say Jesus is God and is eternal because His Spirit was God, but not to say there is an eternal Son of God or "God the Son".

reply to post by truejew


Hmmm, never heard that explanation before, you make it sound like God created the trinity with the physical birth of Jesus.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by truejew

 

Hmmm, never heard that explanation before, you make it sound like God created the trinity with the physical birth of Jesus.

Not exactly a trinity since the Holy Spirit is just another title and role of God the Father and the Son is God the Father in flesh. They are not separate gods/persons as the trinity doctrine teaches and God is not limited to the number three when it comes to titles and roles.

reply to post by truejew


I have different perspective than you on this.
Here is what careful study of the bible has taught me.

Almighty God was alone for what I will refer to a pre-infitinty, post-infinity began with the spirit creation of God's son Jesus, this is essentially the only time marker to start we have in a mind boggling time line. Jesus is thus a separate and fully independent spirit entity from his father, and he has an age, over 14 billion years old.
God does not have an age.

The Holy Spirit is God's force to accomplish anything, it is not alive, it does not think. Since it is tied to God it has been around for infinity too.
It is the most powerful force in the universe, and Jesus uses it, because his father gives him unlimited access to it. Think nuclear power plant and electricity.

When Jesus came to the earth his spirit and soul was transferred and given physical form, different from the demons and angels who could materialize and dematerialize at will.(After the flood the demons get stopped from doing this) Now Jesus was stuck with his physical body till he sacrificed it, then when God resurrected him back to life and to spirit form he could materialize and dematerialize just like any angel.

So you have Almighty God the Father who name is represent by the Tetragrammaton in the bible.
Then you have Jesus Christ, the first born Son, who has a heavenly name different from his earthly name.
Jesus is the earthly name in English, and Christ is a type of title. His pre-earthly name in English is Michael, yes he is "Michael the Archangel". It makes sense that God has put him as the leader over all angels.
The scripture that confirms this is 1 Thessalonians 4:16

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible had this to say on this verse

with the voice of the archangel; so Michael is called, in Jde 1:9 with which compare Revelation 12:7 and who perhaps is no other than Christ himself, who is the head of all principality and power; and the sense be, that Christ shall descend from heaven with a voice, or shall then utter such a voice, as will show him to be the archangel;

And then you have the Holy Spirit, not alive, not conscience, does not have free will, but is so powerful God used it to create every atom in the physical universe. It's like the wind or electricity when invisible you can't see it, but you see the results of it working.

So there is no Trinity, there is not even a duality.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by helen6700
reply to post by truejew

 

The Son of God was also present when the Father created the universe....

The Son of God, the Father manifest in flesh, did not physically exist before his birth around 2000 years ago. However, God knew of His future plan at the creation. It is only in that way that the Son of God was with the Father at creation.

John 3:16-17 (KJV)
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Originally posted by helen6700

You haven't read the link I posted....

Why would I want to read the link when the quote you posted from it was far from truth.

Originally posted by helen6700

“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad”.
Then the Jews said to Him..... “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them........“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am”. (John 8:56-58)

The Spirit of the Son of God, the Father, had no beginning.

edit on 12-12-2012 by truejew because: Added Scripture

Hi truejew///

Why would I want to read the link when the quote you posted from it was far from truth.

I have to again disagree because this is based on your OWN opinion and Scripture does not allow ones opinion to interpret it!
Interpretation was already made by the Fathers of the EARLY Church...the one that Jesus Christ gave authority to....this was the Septuagint-Old Testament.....It was translated from the Hebrew to the Greek( the seventy, because 70 Jewish scholars translated it)
If we all were to give our interpretation of the Scriptures, then we we have our very own Bible and do as we want!

The Son of God, the Father manifest in flesh, did not physically exist before his birth around 2000 years ago. However, God knew of His future plan at the creation. It is only in that way that the Son of God was with the Father at creation.

Yes He did!
The LOGOS........God the Father was not incarnate, but his Word did become incarnate....in the Image of Jesus Christ....Jesus Christ is the Logos ...John 1 says that the Logos was of the same uncreated nature as God, because God cannot be without the Logos...
I can understand where you are coming from, but we cannot interpret Scripture to our own understanding .....

ICXC NIKA

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by truejew

 

His pre-earthly name in English is Michael, yes he is "Michael the Archangel". It makes sense that God has put him as the leader over all angels.
The scripture that confirms this is 1 Thessalonians 4:16

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 does not say that it is Christ giving the shout, just that the shout occurs at the time of Christ's return. The fact that Christ is God manifest in flesh makes this doctrine incorrect.

1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

So you have Almighty God the Father who name is represent by the Tetragrammaton in the bible.
Then you have Jesus Christ, the first born Son, who has a heavenly name different from his earthly name.

I'm not sure if you have seen my posts on the Tetragrammaton or not, but the Tetragrammaton does not have any thing to do with God the Father or Bibical Judaism. It comes from the antichrist Kabbalah Jews who picked it up during their time in Babylon. It is also used in witchcraft.

God's true name is Ehjeh, often translated into English as I Am. The name of Jesus is a combination of Ehjeh, in its short form, and the Hebrew word for salvation. So Jesus is Ehjeh saves.