Have you noticed the backtracking from 'end of the world' to 'a new age' ?

reply to post by bknapple32

IF a civilization was at the level we were at in the past, there would be evidence in the archaeological record, its that simple. And there isn't.

So, because evidence hasnt yet been found means it didnt happen?
There are new discoveries all the time, maybe something will come up some day to prove me right

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by bknapple32

 

IF a civilization was at the level we were at in the past, there would be evidence in the archaeological record, its that simple. And there isn't.

So, because evidence hasnt yet been found means it didnt happen?
There are new discoveries all the time, maybe something will come up some day to prove me right

Absence of evidence is not evidence. Its quite simple, there have been homo species discovered in a chronological order. And tools correlating to advancement of homo sapiens have also been discovered and matched in chronological order. So unless these amazing civilizations happened hundreds of thousands of years ago and somehow was separate from the evolution of afarensis to homo habilus to homo sapien, they did not exist.

Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by bknapple32

 

The cell phone thing was just an example..
Anyway, I will say this. I am one of those people that believes that civilization has advanced before and something significant happened and had to start over.
Then people will ask, well what happened to all of the buildings etc? If youve seen that show, "life after people" or something like that, youll see that after only about 1000 years, the only structures left, are the ones made out of solid stone, everything else returns to the earth.

I can personally attest (been on actual digs)that there are remnants of mogollon (mimbres, NM) pit houses and they were basic as basic gets. And if we can find those, then what we have produced would be able to be found thousands of years after the end. IF a civilization was at the level we were at in the past, there would be evidence in the archaeological record, its that simple. And there isn't.

No. The archaeological record isn't complete. And different environments preserve better than others. People throughout history tend to live near water, if the water level increases it would destroy and/or hide a lot of artifacts. Then there is the idea of hidden archaeology. Things found that don't fit with mainstream archaeology and the Ex Luxe Orienta idea still cherished by so many. Remember absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. And I agree with AfterInfinity and the 1st Law of Thermodynamics.

I noticed that in 2006 if anyone even knew about 2012 it was a new age for mankind then it turned into end of the world with Hollywood and religions picking it up now the new age has taken back over.

Originally posted by bknapple32
If you asked people back in 2006 or even 2008, most who believe in Dec 21, 2012 would have mostly said its the end of the world. But now lately that sentiment seems to have shifted to "it will be a new spiritual awakening'.

I can't really pinpoint when this change occurred but it has happened slowly. What I want to know is why? Is it because the date has been coming quickly and you don't want to promise such a big thing, so you back track a little? I mean, saying it is the end of the world is bold claim and hard to argue ambiguity. But to say a spiritual awakening... is kind of... a cop out. Because what is a spiritual awakening? I would argue such a thing is much different for everyone. An awakening for me could be worlds different than one for you. There's no way to argue whether or not 'it' happened. It allows for people to come here or talk to their friends and family on Dec 22nd and save some face.

Maybe I'm being too cynical on this. I'm not trying to be. But Look at it a different way. If I promise you ''3 things to say in a job interview, and if said, you will get the job''... But then as I'm driving you to the interview I say ''well it depends on HOW you say those things. I cant promise what the interviewer will do if you say them wrong'' That would be backtracking. I look at it as the same thing. The majority claimed end of the world. And now I see far more spiritual outcomes as predictions. A highly ambiguous difference.

Note- this isn't for people who said it was a spiritual awakening the whole time. I get there's exceptions to every rule, but you all cant be the exception.

edit on 25-11-2012 by bknapple32 because: (no reason given)

I know only a few people who were thinking the world would end in December. They still think the world is going to end. As for the spiritual awakening, that is well overdue, people have been blinded for too long. People believe the conditioning put out by our societies. The young have not been told of this conditioning by our generation because times were good. We heard it from our parents when they talked to their families and friends, but many didn't pay attention. I guess we kind of deserve the situation we are going to endure as we finally awake, this world is a power hungry mess.

Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by bknapple32

 

but the mayan masses chose to listen to the "prophets" of "nothing will happen" of that day and age.

sorta like the OP and his fellow "prophets" are hoping.

"history does not repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes"

edit on 25-11-2012 by DerepentLEstranger because: (no reason given)

Its actually a little more simple than that... They just used slash and burn agriculture too much until they depleted their entire crop.

you mean like the rampant consumerism and non-sustainable way of life nowadays?

and no it is not that simple, and it is presumptuous to ASSume one has all the answers wrapped up in a neat and tidy package.

continue to assume as the day of 4-Motion draws nearer.
as it is only yourself you seek to convince in the end,
else why not wait confidently for the 22d so you can say "i told you so"?

"Immanentize the Eschaton!"

reply to post by bknapple32


I noticed that too. I would say it has always been in the background, but started getting traction in 06/08 and then bypassing the "we're all gonna die" meme in about 2009/2010.

Originally posted by Scouser640

Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by bknapple32

 

The cell phone thing was just an example..
Anyway, I will say this. I am one of those people that believes that civilization has advanced before and something significant happened and had to start over.
Then people will ask, well what happened to all of the buildings etc? If youve seen that show, "life after people" or something like that, youll see that after only about 1000 years, the only structures left, are the ones made out of solid stone, everything else returns to the earth.

I can personally attest (been on actual digs)that there are remnants of mogollon (mimbres, NM) pit houses and they were basic as basic gets. And if we can find those, then what we have produced would be able to be found thousands of years after the end. IF a civilization was at the level we were at in the past, there would be evidence in the archaeological record, its that simple. And there isn't.

No. The archaeological record isn't complete. And different environments preserve better than others. People throughout history tend to live near water, if the water level increases it would destroy and/or hide a lot of artifacts. Then there is the idea of hidden archaeology. Things found that don't fit with mainstream archaeology and the Ex Luxe Orienta idea still cherished by so many. Remember absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. And I agree with AfterInfinity and the 1st Law of Thermodynamics.

I never said the archeological record was complete. But there has never been one single discovery even HINTING at the notion of some kind of civilization as advanced as we are today. YOu can make all the wild claims you want, and its easy to say well ' no ones found it, so you cant prove it wrong'. At some point one needs to rely on facts and data. And so far there is zero.

Look, I would love it if a discovery like that could be made, It would change the planet, and I promise you the inner child of every archeologist would love to be the one to find such a thing. But this isnt like finding a new species that others claimed to not exist. We're talking about, in your words, a civilization as advanced as us. That means the use of plastics.. microchips, steel, iron, there would be something left. And it would have been big enough, and it would have been massive enough to have been found. A civilization like that wouldn't have been some small nook of the globe. If this existed in the past, then they would have had agriculture, which means ,they would have had a large population. Large enough for more evidence in the record. Yet.... nothing. I wonder why.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger

Originally posted by bknapple32

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by bknapple32

 

but the mayan masses chose to listen to the "prophets" of "nothing will happen" of that day and age.

sorta like the OP and his fellow "prophets" are hoping.

"history does not repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes"

edit on 25-11-2012 by DerepentLEstranger because: (no reason given)

Its actually a little more simple than that... They just used slash and burn agriculture too much until they depleted their entire crop.

you mean like the rampant consumerism and non-sustainable way of life nowadays?

and no it is not that simple, and it is presumptuous to ASSume one has all the answers wrapped up in a neat and tidy package.

continue to assume as the day of 4-Motion draws nearer.
as it is only yourself you seek to convince in the end,
else why not wait confidently for the 22d so you can say "i told you so"?

"Immanentize the Eschaton!"

edit on 25-11-2012 by DerepentLEstranger because: (no reason given)

Well, when you study it, its hard to ignore facts. If I had no idea what I was talking about, then I could understand where you are coming from with being frustrated with me assuming. However, it is not just assumptions. Its an educated inference based on facts.

And why on earth would I want to say I told you so to anyone. Im not here to rub peoples nose in being wrong. Thats not fun. Thats mean.

Originally posted by bknapple32

Well, when you study it, its hard to ignore facts. If I had no idea what I was talking about, then I could understand where you are coming from with being frustrated with me assuming. However, it is not just assumptions. Its an educated inference based on facts.

And why on earth would I want to say I told you so to anyone. Im not here to rub peoples nose in being wrong. Thats not fun. Thats mean.

reply to post by bknapple32


LL no frustration here, whatever gave you that idea?
i'm not the one Predicting "nothing will happen"
as for the facts: those facts often change
up until the discovery of Bonampak it was generally assumed a fact that the mayans weren't into blood rituals and human sacrifice

We're talking about, in your words, a civilization as advanced as us. That means the use of plastics.. microchips, steel, iron, there would be something left. And it would have been big enough, and it would have been massive enough to have been found. A civilization like that wouldn't have been some small nook of the globe. If this existed in the past, then they would have had agriculture, which means ,they would have had a large population. Large enough for more evidence in the record. Yet.... nothing. I wonder why.

ummm NO. "civilization" does not require technology that is a presumption, you are projecting your paradigm/worldview/way of thinking onto people of other aeons and paradigms, most ancient humans were nomadic and left small or no footprints. and our Age of Reason is barely over a half millenium old.

a civilization based on psionics or magic would not require tech as all would be done with the powers of the mind.

in any case "civilization" as anything other than living in cities has never truly existed
the concept is just a Big Lie invented by the greeks in the west and the chinese in the east, in order to justify their predations on those they classified as "savages and barbarians"

sort of how like many humans look down on dolphins and whales because they don't use gizmos

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


First off I never said there is no way nothing will happen. Ever. I said I believe nothing will happen. But I dont purport to know the future.

Second, I guess we disagree on what a civilization is. I view a civilization as one that has the use of technology... But not in the way you are thinking. I mean agriculture. I don't mean living in big cities only. But I used big city technologies as an example because I was debating the posit by someone else that there were civilizations in the far past as advanced as we are today. That was the argument.

I think that over the next couple of weeks there will be many lame-ass fools with dumb avatars making threads just like this. I'm sick of it already.

reply to post by bknapple32


I don't think we are that advanced really. We think we are because the collective ego says so. But I get what you are saying. But - if past 'civilsations' were truly advanced maybe they didn't have all the garbage we 'need' to survive.

Originally posted by BlueMule
I think that over the next couple of weeks there will be many lame-ass fools with dumb avatars making threads just like this. I'm sick of it already.

So you are calling me a lame ass fool(very mature), with a dumb avatar (my own picture) making a thread you're sick of.

Well..... No one forced you to contribute (or lack thereof) to the thread, let alone read it. And I'm sorry you don't like what I look like, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

One day you will learn that when you disagree with someone, you dont have to resort to immature mentalities of name calling.

reply to post by bknapple32


That's not true at all. As long as I've studied such things, there has been a strong corner of the argument claiming it was simply the "end of the world as we know it." That we were evolving or transcending to a new dimensional consciousness. This is not a new idea, nor is it anymore prevalent now. More people have joined the debate, is all.

Originally posted by thektotheg
reply to post by bknapple32

 

That's not true at all. As long as I've studied such things, there has been a strong corner of the argument claiming it was simply the "end of the world as we know it." That we were evolving or transcending to a new dimensional consciousness. This is not a new idea, nor is it anymore prevalent now. More people have joined the debate, is all.

I never said the argument didn't exist. Don't jump the gun on me

I think it is more prevalent now however and part of it may be due to more people in the debate; but myself and others feel the tides have changed here at ATS and overall.

Maybe the ancients understood things we don't yet understand about our selves? Maybe the Mayans and earlier civilizations had a connection to source (source of life and all there is) the connection we have lost in our materialistic, profiteering ways. I mean lets examine this a bit, the "bottom line" has become more important than life itself really. Look at all the negative side effects of corporate profit generation. Oil companies for instance, look at the damage to this planet by the oil industry as a whole, oil spills, contamination of land, sea, and air. And it may be laughable to most, but I know there are way better alternative to fossil fuels. Zero-point energy is real, over-unity devices are real, I have seen a simple conversion kit that makes a gas engine run on water, and yet they are buried in secrecy, and why?....$$$$$ The bottom line....PROFIT.

Then you must consider the Geopolitical structure of this planet, 3rd world countries are exploited and stripped of all wealth, and resources by the large countries, which keeps the 3rd world in a situation of scarcity and destitution. "TRUTH" does not reign on earth, only the twisted version of truth, which has lead us to spiritual darkness. So no one should be surprised that none of us know what will happen on DEC 21 2012 or if anything will happen at all.

Maybe something has already begun to happen starting in the 80's, maybe this something is too beyond our current understanding to comprehend for most if not all of us. I believe however that some of us do understand, I believe I do at least barely understand the fundamentals of what is happening. It is at the basic level of energy. Energy as many know vibrates as a frequency similar to sound, furthermore I believe that sound vibration and energy vibration are related somehow or even possibly the same. Like I said, I only understand enough to barely be aware of it.

If you take a table and attach a speaker to it, then pour sand on top the table, run a frequency through the speaker, the sand will take a shape. you can see this on youtube, as many of you probably already have. Now,energy does the very same thing to the structure of matter, in the very same way that speaker makes the sand particles take a specific shape. The reason this is important is, your DNA is structured in the design and shape that the vibration of energy dictates. The higher frequency the energy is vibrating the more complex the structure. this will change everything, it will change matter, which will change us. This I think is the key to what the ancients tried to tell us. It is directly related to the alignments of the Galaxy, which is again determined by the vibration of the energy that all is made of, and that energy determines solar orbit, sun temp, everything.

Our sun is getting hotter, I have read an interesting article about this, and grrrr I cant find the link to post here. It essentially talked about how the scientific community has the life cycle of stars backwards, and our sun is becoming hotter and larger, and also it happens in big steps, not slowly and evenly over time, when it gets hotter it happens in big jumps. I have read about how the ancients have mentioned this 3 day of darkness or 12 days, can remember which, but this article explained a sun spot as sort of a tornado where the material is moving faster than light, which is why sun spots are dark,. according to the article, the entire mass of the sun will begin to move FTL and there fore be black and unseen, therefore darkness. I thought that made a great deal of sense.

That article I mentioned has a link here on ATS somewhere, I believe that's where I ran across it, I don't have time right now to do the research to find the link. but I would suggest reading a series of 5 books you can download for free from here; www.lawofone.info... you may find some understanding (only if you have an open mind) here.

one thing I can say for sure, it should be no surprise that we really know nothing at all as a race, all the worlds governments are controlled by a few elite, and telling us any truth they find is not their way of doing things, in fact hiding the truth and wanting us all to be afraid docile slaves is how they roll....so no wounder we don't know. Also if you don't know of David Wilcock, you might study his theories as well, I find he is very sensible and has a very good insight into what may become "unified field theory" found here; divinecosmos.com...

As far as anyone backtracking on doomsday or golden age....well I think the pace of people gaining awareness of understanding our selves, in that we are more than just physical bodies that die and cease to exist, we are eternal energy, that which we call a soul is real and eternal. Life does have a purpose, this universe is an intelligent design, it is mathematically impossible that chaos theory is mechanism with which the universe was created.

reply to post by scooter3200


Thats all fine and dandy but the mayans werent a bunch of saints. They had the same issues we have today just in different ways. You want the domination of few over the many? How bout the rituals that started with chopping off a person's penis and eating it , then severing the head and throwing it down a giant staircase.. all for sacrifice. When all it was, was a form of control over the masses to stay in line and live in fear, thus handing over power. They exploited, just like people do today. In a way, nothing changes when you get to the core. Just different surroundings.

It could be they were just great astronomers because they were always looking up, perhaps because they didnt have a giant tube with moving pictures keeping their heads down.

I never said the archeological record was complete. But there has never been one single discovery even HINTING at the notion of some kind of civilization as advanced as we are today. YOu can make all the wild claims you want, and its easy to say well ' no ones found it, so you cant prove it wrong'. At some point one needs to rely on facts and data. And so far there is zero.

Look, I would love it if a discovery like that could be made, It would change the planet, and I promise you the inner child of every archeologist would love to be the one to find such a thing. But this isnt like finding a new species that others claimed to not exist. We're talking about, in your words, a civilization as advanced as us. That means the use of plastics.. microchips, steel, iron, there would be something left. And it would have been big enough, and it would have been massive enough to have been found. A civilization like that wouldn't have been some small nook of the globe. If this existed in the past, then they would have had agriculture, which means ,they would have had a large population. Large enough for more evidence in the record. Yet.... nothing. I wonder why.

First of all, the archaeological record is not only incomplete, I believe it to only reflect what the ruling class want everyone else to know . the scientific community covers up any profound truths that would change the perception we already have. It took the elite much work to create and maintain the worldview we all have, yes it is of their design. Now I don't care how long you been into archeology, how good you are at it, or whether you believe that you should know exactly how the scientific community runs things. you where educated and molded by a system that is false at best. If there "IS" or "WAS" ever any physical evidence that would suggest that there was advanced technology or anything useful, and quite different than what we think we know, anything that refutes the current claims of the scientific community will never be made public. you will never hear of it. Now some stories have leaked, but those are and have been for the most part been squashed, covered up and forgotten. If one was interested in looking to see if this was really how they do things, one could easily find proof in the way of examples how many scientists have lost their careers and been destroyed for trying to display any physical evidence or theory that goes against the mandate of the scientific community.

Originally posted by BlueMule
I think that over the next couple of weeks there will be many lame-ass fools with dumb avatars making threads just like this. I'm sick of it already.

indeed, have you noticed how many seem to have signed up [today especially]
to proclaim loudly and "predict" that "nothing will happen"?

andwith regards with the tread topic:

Have you noticed the backtracking from "nothing will happen" to '" i don't believe anything will happen"' ?