Back to this: Papa John and His Anger at Obama Ruining his Business

Originally posted by Hefficide

The new American service industry model. Weeping billionaires punishing their minimum wage labor force - even as they fight tooth and nail to repeal the minimum wage itself.

BAD, BAD, BAD WAGE SLAVES... BACK TO THE KITCHEN AND VOTE THE WAY I TELL YOU TO! OR ELSE!

On a totally unrelated note:

Dear residents of gated communities. Just how safe to you think a 10 foot wall and a half awake security guard named Clarence really makes you? You might want to reconsider this whole greed thing. The French had a bit of a problem with it a couple of hundred years back and it didn't work out so well for the gated community crowd.

~Heff

Heff,

You folks are after the wrong target as usual in the sustained effort to gin up class warfare, you might actually get it one of these days and more. We've touched on political issues and reasons making industry and manufacturing jobs leave this country in other discussions - even agreed on a point or two - the problem in a word - GOVERNMENT, policy to be more exact.

Continued finger pointing and blame for the lot of the people directed towards the well off is meaningless and harmful to getting this country back on its feet.

The target should be GOVERNMENT POLICY

The real elephant in the room question for class warfarers (CW's) should be "what is a fair percent of confiscation of others money" on government order (with guns) is it 25%, 50% 75% or maybe better 100% - what is that number in your minds as you argue class warfare, how much is enough? seriously.

Dude has a nice house and all but dude also had to hire lots of well paying construction folks to build and maintain that kind of house, should he have quietly bought a tract home and banked the money offshore?

Or are you guys saying basically if the rich don't give it away - we'll take it! Thats really what I'm hearing from the OP in a sideways way and more directly from your post - what gives you the thought process to justify this kind of thing anyway. It'd be borderline for me if you guys picked a wall-streeter or TBTF banking guy but no it had to be a self made man in the best of Americas tradition.

IMHO whats happened is America is lowering its standard of living to match that of the rest of the world, global trickle up economics in your parlance and its pervasively ruined our country economically and morally. You blame corporations, I blame government policy making it all legal and advantageous to stockholders - remember we both agree lobbyist's should be deported or worse - there's your "gated community" and french revo folks to target.

It has to be admitted that the party of "special interests" has the levers of government right now and it is anti-business at it core - meaning anti-jobs at its result. I am for any law, regulation, tax policy or program the has any practical way of promoting return of skilled jobs or any job here in America itself.

Class warfare and this administration both fail on the count.

As an aside I live in a solid middle class area, come on we're all more than ready for the moochers invasion when this false economy comes crashing down! dare ya!

Unfortunately, it seems no man nor government nor reigning company/country are above greed. This is the simple and proven fact. Greed is the main player in our lives, our peers lives and our governors lives. We all practice the same, why expect something else?

Fox News: Rich people paying rich people to tell the middle class to blame the poor.

So many of these billionaires are nothing more than little pigs. A free market economy is a wonderful thing, but when basic human decency is left to rot because they would rather be able to pay someone to wipe they're butts with twenty dollar bills we have a problem. We wouldn't need to have so many "socialist" programs if these capitalists put more importance on the people who helped make their business successful.

People like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are not part of the problem. They and 38 others have donated close to 250 Billion to charity as part of a pact to help others.... And I can guarantee they wouldn't mind being taxed more, because they are smart enough to realize that when those at the bottom can afford to live a decent lifestyle everyone benefits, including the wealthy. If we have money to buy their products and services, they make more money, and the economy, and their profits improve without having to financially rape the country and then pretend to be patriotic Americans to dupe the weak minded.

In a financial crisis you reduce taxes to the poor, increase taxes to the wealthy, and increase government spending towards infrastructure and social programs. This isn't partisan, this is literally what is taught in the first week of Economics 101 in college. Always trickles up, always, absolutely always.... It doesn't trickle down. Pick up The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money by John Maynard Keynes and friggin educate yourselves.

They consider you and I to be peasants.... Which is fine, as long as we always have as we kno where the torches, pitchforks, and guillotines are kept.

reply to post by Phoenix


As usual, I agree with the crux of your argument. But, in this case, with a caveat.

Of course there are many issues involved in the complexity that we call our world. Things are rarely as cut and dry as right vs left, or black vs white, or rich vs poor. There are always nuances, extenuating and mitigating factors, and layers of intrigue and involvement.

But in this case an issue that is dear to me is being skirted... the notion of the "job creator" and the myth of "I built this myself".

As it happens I worked for a short while for the man in question here, John Schnatter, about a decade ago. it was a second job, four hours per night, four days per week, that I took out of boredom and a desire to have a bit more money to spend on my ex that coming holiday season. So I am familiar with his story and that of his company.

Credit where credit is due - he did start with a pizza oven and a backroom. But a backroom in a building owned by his father. He had help.

Once he hired his first driver, and cook... he had help.

And so on.

Had John Schnatter relied solely upon John Schnatter - he might have a living and an OK life... making one pizza at a time and then rushing to deliver it. Or just cooking and working the cash register in a walk in only business model. In THAT case he would be justified in the sort of arrogance he is known for.

But that was not the case. His company employs at least 16,000 people who contribute to his success and they have every right in the world to share in the rewards and reap the benefits of the companies success. Without them? John Schnatter owns 4,000 ( ish ) totally dark and quiet buildings that generate no income at all.

Management and labor are a symbiotic relationship - neither is effective without the other. Yet, for reasons that are beyond me, over the past 30-ish years this relationship has become severely one sided and unfair to the working half of it.

Of course the man who created the business should be rewarded at a higher level than the teenage driver who started working their yesterday. I am not discussing communism or some "everyone is equal automatically" doctrine. What I am saying is that the disparity in income between the owner and the laborer is no longer at an acceptable level. Employers, especially in the service industry, have gotten too greedy.

An example: I haven't looked it up, so I may be one number off... but six or seven of the wealthiest people in the world have the last name of Walton. Why then is that company so infamous for underpaying and for not providing benefits to the people who actually do the work that produces the fortune?

Let the rich be rich - but let's not create a society where the poor are so damned poor. There's enough in the mix for a worker to have a basic and comfortable life and for the Shnatters of this world to still be rich beyond their imaginations.

~Heff

Originally posted by muse7
The people who defend these greedy cockroaches are going to be the first ones to be lined up against a wall when the second revolution comes.

So you think of killing rich persons, and nothing of those who destroyed the Constitution, when you think 'revolution'?

I am sickened by your sentiment. I thought it was all about God given rights, and greed for government power. This is just somebody's piggybank. Cracking it open will never bring happiness. You are completely lost, little thinker.

The man got rich using his brain, is that a crime now? IMO Papa John's is the best pizza i've ever had, its blows Dominoes nastiness outta the water, and Pizzahut burns their pizza more often than not and still serves it to you burnt cheese and all. This is what america was built for, and is the true american dream. Fortunately for me i don't have the desire to be filthy rich, i'm content to eek out my meager existence as it is so seeing those who are filthy rich doesn't knock a dent in my stride.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


It looks to me that you’re jealous. I guess no one is allow to work and create a business be successful and become rich. Also, I guess he does not have the right to freedom of speech and free enterprise. I guess you would rather that Papa John’s be owned by the Federal Government. What is the deal? John Schnatter is a very nice guy and extremely charitable. Who made you God? You are nothing but a communist. Get off your butt and work and do what John did. It was not given to him. He did not steal from someone to become rich. He sure did not take any Government bailout money, or handouts. I guess you think he can provide health care insurance to ten of thousand of delivery drivers at about $700 a month. I am so tired of judgmental jealous people that have never run a business, have no knowledge of the expense that a business must cover in order to be successful. Plus, John pays a hell of a lot of taxes. Why is it fair that a person that make $10k a year has a tax rate of 15% but a person that makes $500k has a tax rate of 35%. I thought we were all equal. It seems to me that everyone should pay the same tax rate no matter how much they make. That is fair. How about people like you that make their money in cash under the table and pay nothing. Someone like you that buy's stuff on the internet and does not claim the purchase to avoid sales tax. I guess that is OK. I bet you play the lottery. I guess if you won the $250 million power ball you would give it all to the government. Go back to your dream of utopia and try again buddy. If you hate the guy so much do not buy his pizza. Otherwise shut up.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Phoenix

 

As usual, I agree with the crux of your argument. But, in this case, with a caveat.

Of course there are many issues involved in the complexity that we call our world. Things are rarely as cut and dry as right vs left, or black vs white, or rich vs poor. There are always nuances, extenuating and mitigating factors, and layers of intrigue and involvement.

But in this case an issue that is dear to me is being skirted... the notion of the "job creator" and the myth of "I built this myself".

As it happens I worked for a short while for the man in question here, John Schnatter, about a decade ago. it was a second job, four hours per night, four days per week, that I took out of boredom and a desire to have a bit more money to spend on my ex that coming holiday season. So I am familiar with his story and that of his company.

Credit where credit is due - he did start with a pizza oven and a backroom. But a backroom in a building owned by his father. He had help.

Once he hired his first driver, and cook... he had help.

And so on.

Had John Schnatter relied solely upon John Schnatter - he might have a living and an OK life... making one pizza at a time and then rushing to deliver it. Or just cooking and working the cash register in a walk in only business model. In THAT case he would be justified in the sort of arrogance he is known for.

But that was not the case. His company employs at least 16,000 people who contribute to his success and they have every right in the world to share in the rewards and reap the benefits of the companies success. Without them? John Schnatter owns 4,000 ( ish ) totally dark and quiet buildings that generate no income at all.

Management and labor are a symbiotic relationship - neither is effective without the other. Yet, for reasons that are beyond me, over the past 30-ish years this relationship has become severely one sided and unfair to the working half of it.

Of course the man who created the business should be rewarded at a higher level than the teenage driver who started working their yesterday. I am not discussing communism or some "everyone is equal automatically" doctrine. What I am saying is that the disparity in income between the owner and the laborer is no longer at an acceptable level. Employers, especially in the service industry, have gotten too greedy.

An example: I haven't looked it up, so I may be one number off... but six or seven of the wealthiest people in the world have the last name of Walton. Why then is that company so infamous for underpaying and for not providing benefits to the people who actually do the work that produces the fortune?

Let the rich be rich - but let's not create a society where the poor are so damned poor. There's enough in the mix for a worker to have a basic and comfortable life and for the Shnatters of this world to still be rich beyond their imaginations.

~Heff

edit on 11/20/12 by Hefficide because: (no reason given)

Heff,

In moral principle I agree to much of what you've said. I have an extreme problem when its at the point of a gun held by government politicians desiring nothing more than re-election.

I live in a world where success is success and if the individual who works hard gets it which you know yourself is rare then they have personal choices to make in how they deal with it. Ostracise them all you like publically but confication is beyond the pale and we as a people should constrain ourselves from that extremism.

Sure, no business can be said to be a one man operation unless it is a one man operation. Same token nobody is forcing the workers to remain in employment other than their own personal decision to remain there.

This economy really sucks and I am first to admit in employees eyes that makes individual workers less valuable, six years ago same could not be said.

Jobs, jobs and jobs is the solution. Approach 3-4% unemployment and advantage workers! Now knock away any and I mean any government policy in the way and you have my full support.

I am not seeing that by anyone in this administration nor its fervent supporters - only same ole same ole class warfare crap.

Originally posted by muse7
The people who defend these greedy cockroaches are going to be the first ones to be lined up against a wall when the second revolution comes.

Yeah right, there won't be a second revolution unless the American people begin to starve; the republic will collapse right under our noses and we'll be too complacent to do anything because people don't engage in revolution unless their survival is at stake. Food + shelter, no matter how bad in quality, prevents riots. Take a play from how Rome handled its collapse, you'll find striking similarities with how we are handling ours.

reply to post by Osiris1953


You guarantee that Warren Buffet wouldn't mind being taxed more? Warren Buffet? Really? The same Warren Buffet who owes right about One billion dollars (BILLION - with a B) in unpaid back taxes? That Warren Buffet? Last I knew there wasn't anyone stopping him from breaking out his checkbook and writing a check to the government if he feels the need to contribute more. Why would he, though? He can't seem to be bothered enough about it to actually pay his taxes at all, what makes anyone think he's going to go ahead and pay extra?

Take care,
Cindi

talk about class warfare......basically scaring your employees to vote for who you want.....sickening, i'm glad I don't eat Papa Johns, these greedy bastards are going to fire innocent employee's because of Obama....when they already have millions upon millions? incredible

None of you have any right to say who makes what.

Why don't you all stop coveting someone else's wealth and make your own wealth. You all look like a bunch of hungry dogs salivating over another dogs bone.

For those of you bitching about the rich folks - ever consider they may not be where they are today if these Dictator BO ( Body Odor) Obama policies were in place when they started?

Being Rich is The American Dream. Nothing wrong with being rich or even super stinking rich. Being rich is only bad when you use your wealth to hurt other people.

Otherwise, I say, if a guy wants to build a 12,000 sq foot house for his maid, more power to him - and her.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
The man has a right to run his business as he sees fit and sees it's necessary just as you have the right to buy a pizza elsewhere, IMO. I may buy one just for the sake of the fact I really don't think boycotts in a bad economy are the least bit helpful. I know people at the college working at Papa Johns. What did they do? Boycotts usually hit the wrong people but we each have our own choice to make with our dollars. The free market in action.

So you're suggesting that a boycott destroys a business - again?
I see this parroted around, often the source is some Republican mouthpiece or some billionaire who likes to use it as a threat (tax us and we'll take our business to another country).

But what these people forget is that when one business dies - which is the right thing to happen in a capitalist society when that business is fundamentally flawed - others grow and take its place.

People can't bang on and on about a capitalist system and free market and believe that the end of a business means the death of an industry.

You know what will happen if Pappa John's dies through a boycott? Other businesses will grow, employ more staff and pay their taxes too. And, their profits will stay in the local community rather than be immediately sucked out of the country to some tax haven.

We have the same situation in the UK with Starbucks. They haven't paid corporation tax here for years. People are boycotting them. But if they died in the UK, there are thousands of other smaller businesses that would be able to grow and hire more people, and those businesses actually pay their taxes!

I hope these scummy corporate cockroaches do go out of business. I hope they all fail on a massive scale. Yes, there will be a lot of unemployment, briefly, but the demand for a product will still be there, and the smaller and more moral competitors will be able to grow and create a real fair playing field in business.

It's about time people started following the mantra - small business is better than big business.

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
For those of you bitching about the rich folks - ever consider they may not be where they are today if these Dictator BO ( Body Odor) Obama policies were in place when they started?

Being Rich is The American Dream. Nothing wrong with being rich or even super stinking rich. Being rich is only bad when you use your wealth to hurt other people.

Otherwise, I say, if a guy wants to build a 12,000 sq foot house for his maid, more power to him - and her.

So you're happy to be paying his taxes for him?
Even though he is more capable than millions of others when it comes to paying his way, you're feeling extra generous and you volunteer to pay his bills for him.

You're either naively nice or uneducated.

Taxes need to be paid. You have federal government to pay for, you have a military to pay for, you have public health and social services that will always need paying for, you have $16 trillion in debt that need to be paid for.

And as long as a man like that gets away with paying less, you are paying more.

It must be great to be a millionaire, not only can you afford anything you want, you can convince the plebs to pay your freakin' bills for you too!

reply to post by Phoenix


No one's going after Bill Gates, because he's a well known philanthropist. People like Papa John do have every right to spend their hard earned money any way they please. Nobody's arguing that. The difference is that the greedy don't think they should have to pay their part in supporting the infrastructure of our country whereas people like Gates have expressed the opinion that the rich should pay more in taxes.

- He can run his company any way he wishes.
- He is entitled to a profit from his company.
- No one has a right to put a cap on how much another person makes.
- He can spend his money any way he wishes. He earned it.

reply to post by Phoenix


Awe, For shame on the government for not allowing them to poison our air, water, food, make us work for pennies, keep us safe at work, shame shame shame...I can't believe people are actually arguing this fact. Well those regulations aren't in place in foreign countries, and all you need to do is look at pics of their major cities and you can see all the smog, yeah we are (our government) so evil for having these policies.

Goodness I am certainly glad some people here don't have anything to do with Governnance over us!

reply to post by Glencairn


Buffett isn't personally being sued for unpaid taxes. One of his companies, NetJets is being sued for unpaid taxes. Admittedly this is bad, but so far I have not seen anything that states that Buffett was directly involved with the unpaid taxes. Granted he owns the company, so that does make him accountable, but it doesn't mean he is responsible for the problem.

Either way he has been a supporter of higher taxation on the wealthy.. and has been for quite a while.

If anything, taxes for the lower and middle class and maybe even the upper middle class should even probably be cut further. But I think that people at the high end - people like myself - should be paying a lot more in taxes. We have it better than we've ever had it.

The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more money and we'll go out and spend more and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you. But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope the American public is catching on.

One of his many holdings had issues, and sure that may have hurt his reputation, but he seems like a pretty decent man as far as I can tell.

I really can't understand why anyone is crying over this...especially the big corporations, they have all the means to hide their assets (and they do) and if they don't they need to get better accountants. There's a million on top of a million loopholes for these idiots...or are they too lazy to figure out how to find those loopholes, huh?