Back to this: Papa John and His Anger at Obama Ruining his Business

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon

You, sir, are both a gentlemen and scholar.

But I certainly agree. People seem to have a penchant for taking at face value everything they are spoonfed by the powers that be.

Thanks. The same can be applied to you.

Minds with independent thought will truly shape this world for he better. I simply call it as I see it, don't really care who agrees or disagrees but I will make my opinion known. I believe civil debate, and a willingness to admit when an opponent on an issue is right, goes a long way towards finding deeper understanding.

Anyway thanks again. I hope to argue with you some more in the future.

Originally posted by bkprice
This thread is great, where else can you find unsuccessful people giving economic advise LOL. This place is great for a laugh, wish I had found it early.

Liberals are the most greedy people of all, they want your money and their money, food stamps, free medical, etc.

This post is great. Where else can you find an uneducated person making assumptions based on nothing...LOL...this place is great for a laugh, wish I had found it early (I mean earlier).

Conservative are the most racist, women hating back stabbers of all, who want econimically disadvantaged people to die and suffer, while they themselves live in a shack and think that oligarchs are the bomb.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


I would love to add it up because I bet even most of those rich people in those blue states actually vote republican. I'll go one step further, I'd also bet that the counties whos population gets the most federal assistance, are mostly democratic voting counties!

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Look under demographic. You're telling me that conservatives take in more than liberals? Funny look at the percentage of voters making under 15k a year and also the uneducated that voted for Obama in 2008. These are the people who are on welfare.

I think it's pretty clear now.

Originally posted by tide88
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

I would love to add it up because I bet even most of those rich people in those blue states actually vote republican. I'll go one step further, I'd also bet that the counties whos population gets the most federal assistance, are mostly democratic voting counties!

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Look under demographic. You're telling me that conservatives take in more than liberals? Funny look at the percentage of voters making under 15k a year and also the uneducated that voted for Obama in 2008. These are the people who are on welfare.

I think it's pretty clear now.

edit on 21-11-2012 by tide88 because: Added

Eh? Keep going on. Part of the OP was directed at this exact thought. I always was amazed that poor uneducated people held rich oligarch who care not one whim for them as their saviors. Speaking directly at the welfare queen conservatives.

CJ

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


Sorry, you are wrong. People thrive with freedom and capitalism and less government.

The Democrats-Liberals are exactly the opposite of what they pretend to be.

The rich oligarch's are the ones who are employing these people. Whether they care about them or not is irrelevant. People start companies to make money, not because they are concerned about the well being of others. You think small business owners take the risks they do to start a business so they can give someone a job?

my guess is your or still in college or are a teacher/professor of some sort. I can see debating this topic is also pointless. You see the world one way, I see it another. I wish the best to you and your loved ones. Have a nice thanksgiving!

Originally posted by ConcernedConservative
reply to post by 0zzymand0s

 

Sorry, you are wrong. People thrive with freedom and capitalism and less government.

The Democrats-Liberals are exactly the opposite of what they pretend to be.

That's classic. I could have sworn this was the mantra of the Republicans, until it only took one second to realize they are classic goverment lovers. Funny how you guys love government so much yet claim to disdain their role. Check yourself, lol.

CJ

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
Conservative are the most racist, women hating back stabbers of all, who want econimically disadvantaged people to die and suffer, while they themselves live in a shack and think that oligarchs are the bomb.

CJ

I think you paint with too broad a stroke here (and I suspect you would agree). Many people who claim to be conservative are much more moderate when you sit down and reason with them. Some fear the world they grew up in is passing away and never took the time to adapt. To see your traditions passing away when you've built your entire world view around it, is very painful, regardless of how unsound the traditions may have been. Even with their shortfalls, these people often posses a great deal of virtue in other areas.

As for wanting economically disadvantaged people to die and suffer, what truth there is in that is a result of a philosophy but NOT the intent of the philosophy (well, in most cases anyways). They have developed (or have been fed) a narrative that those who cannot provide for themselves have ample opportunity but choose not to take advantage of it, and instead live a life of leisure financed by the hard work of others. To enable this behavior is, to them, immoral. And if that were the reality many would sympathize.

reply to post by tgidkp

for someone who seems to know a bit about the true nature of money, i am pretty disappointed with your statements regarding how the rich spend "their" money.

can you acknowledge that money (the monetary system) is a shared resource, particularly considering its fiat nature?

Money is simply property, and property is an extension of oneself. The problem with Federal Reserve Notes, is the fact that they are the property of the Federal Reserve. Our "taxes" are really just a rent that we are charged for using their property; and the IRS are the stormtroopers the Fed uses to make sure everyone pitches in "their fair share."

Our economy is a special case, and many of the absurdities that rational people can see simply would not exist if it were not for fractional reserve banking, and the fact that our "free market" is manipulated by men like Ben Bernanke.

That aside, if we didn't have this special case to consider, under a more sane economic system (like the one the Union had prior to the inception of the Federal Reserve), the money that you earn is your private property, just like anything else.

I understand what you are implying by money being a shared resource, but the act of circulating currency through the money supply does not mean we have some right over another person's property.

We don't go around divvying up people's other personal effects for the sake of the "greater good." So why do we do it with the one resource that matters most?

I am not saying that a person should be allowed to abuse their workers. Many times we confuse putting up with abuse and "working hard" as being synonymous. People should not have to put up with it.

My stance is such that, I feel we trivialize our actual problems by pointing the finger of blame at people who are merely a symptom of the actual sickness.

No one owns money.

In our system, Federal Reserve Notes are the property of the Federal Reserve Bank. Under a saner monetary system, the money earned by the individual is their property. It has to be.

The only way to become a schnatter (not just rich, but wealthy) is to make an abuse of OUR MONEY.

I don't see why you have to abuse something, or anything, to become wealthy? Surely not all Schnatters had to abuse the money supply, or anything else, to become wealthy?

I have no problem stating unequivocally that, yes, I am ENTITLED to a healthy monetary policy and I have no problem whatsoever in correcting abuses of the system as necessary.

All members of the Union are entitled to a sound monetary system. But I am not entitled to your money.

When you allow someone to pay for your bill, whether it is food, healthcare, or anything--you are giving them power over you. When you receive a benefit you are robbing yourself of your own independence.

That, to me, is something that should be avoided at all costs.

Originally posted by tide88
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

As you may or may not know, Papa Johns is a franchised business, so they are really sticking up for their franchise owners, who are not nearly as wealthy as John and this douche. They are the ones that will be affected by paying for their employees health care.

With the employee cap on whether or not an employer has to pay its employees healthcare, this will cause franchise owner to expand less, which means less jobs. This is a job killer and the US is about to be hit hard with some serious layoffs in the restaurant industry. Also kiss those 40 hours a week goodbye, you are going to be seeing 30 hour works weeks.

What does this all mean? Much less tax revenue for an already seriously indebted country. Things are not looking good here. Obama is trying to close the gap between the rich and the poor, revive the middle class. There wont be a middle class in a few years. Mark my words.

The shift to part time labor is well underway and I have no doubt the healthcare bill will accelerate this (www.zerohedge.com...). Unfortunately unintended consequences trump good intentions.

reply to post by ColoradoJens

The same reason people complain about Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, I get a kick out of Democrats thinking only Republicans are rich, too funny, I have yet to meet a poor Communist leader, look at Fidel, China's elite, celebutards, and OWS trust fund college kids who protest as a career, you are foolish if you think only one party, the Republicans, are rich, they all are, they fill their own pockets off the backs of their constituents, the Democrats are just as rich and power hungry as the Republicans, there are poor Democrats and there are poor Republicans too.

As far as Papa Johns goes, he has a valid complaint, it takes a lot to run a business, his anger is valid, Obamacare will be passed on to the consumer through increased cost of products and services, that's a fact, and it's how businesses are run. Capitalisim is not evil, nor is communisim, it's those who seek to attain these ideals as the norm, their leaders, they are the ones who become evil, be it through sheer greed or a never ending quest for power and control, the leaders are the ones who cause a system to fail. No system is perfect, yet some have better moral leaders than others, that's the important factor for a system to work, the leaders must fear God and their constituents, if they don't, they will fall prey to corruption, be it material wealth or their own immoral pursuits; thus, we the constituents are affected either positively or negatively based on our leaders and their actions. A nation who puts their faith in the law of men is a nation that will surely fail, for the law of man like themselves is sadly flawed, that's why the founding fathers of the United States based their law and it's foundation on God, not man.

This kinda stuff is EXACTLY the reasons for Obama winning the election a 2nd time - like it or not. Will it solve any of our economic problems? Nope - at least not for another 40 - 50 years... but neither will any of Romney's plans. People can continue to complain about things all they want, but as long as the world stays the way it is, with guys running around like those mentioned in this thread, things will never change - that simple.

Originally posted by Phoenix
This is hardly the story of a spoiled silver spoon born and bred son of an oligarch,

So, I knocked down the broom closet in Mick's Lounge, bought $1600 in used restaurant equipment, installed an oven in the tiny space and started selling pizzas out of the back of the restaurant. And that's when Papa John's was born! I put my heart and soul, and everything I had learned from my father and grandfather, into my pizza business, and it paid off. In 1984, I opened my first Papa John's restaurant, and the rest is history!"

This guy made the American dream from taking a chance and using gumption along with hard work - how dare you jealous small minded people demean someone who deserves what they have well earned just because you envy his success.

He has every right to express his political belief and more, he's actually earned it!

disclaimer, I have never worked papa johns and have no connection - I have disdain for those who denigrate success and want the successful to give handouts for their personal failures and lack of motivation - makes me sick actually.

Not reading the rest of the thread. You said all that needs to be said.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


To say that a man who has risked much in life to be very profitable, a man that built his business from the ground up in a free country that allowed him to do so, should have to pay for healthcare for a small portion of the population is downright absurd. To say that you personally deserve a cut of the fruits of his labor, I say YOU are the entitled, greedy ones! These 'greedy CEO's' contribute to the workforce and without them millions of americans would be without jobs. They shouldn't have to pay a 'little more' for everyone else, not even a single penny! They should be congratulated! Big government programs have no right whatsoever to force themselves on businesses and to mix their dealings for socialized medicine and healthcare. It whittles away at our liberties even more. Wake up people!

The irony is, if they have a successful business model they are the primary beneficiaries of a strengthening local economy.

The food industry does not pay cheap at home to sell expensive in Europe. They need Americans to have dollars in their fists, any measure that does that, helps industries like the food sector most of all. And yet they complain about what will be a net gain for them. They are like little children who dont want the medicine that does them good because it tastes bitter.

I could see how a net exporter complaining makes sense, but those guys rely so heavily on Americans having money, them complaining is such a display of lack of business sense, one wonders how they got rich in the first place. Guess if you have enough money you hire somebody else to do all the thinking.

Ordered a large, thin crust pizza from them for delivery, paid 16 bucks for it. What showed up was akin to a 10 inch saltine cracker with three pepperoni and a tablespoon of hamburger sprinkled thinly upon. Never bothered with them again.
I would suggest that crap product might have something to do with the "ruining" of his business as well.

Originally posted by lithographyman
Hopefully Obama dies of natural causes real soon....

No doubt if he read that he would WISH you the SAME!

Originally posted by BobM88
reply to post by ColoradoJens

 

You're right on...something that few consider too...if a capitalist is overly greedy, how does he differ from those old Soviet Politburo members that lived extremely well while the average Soviet citizen earned a small wage?

Never mind the moralities. If people have to stash away their money for medicine and old age, or dont even have that, where is the money supposed to come from to lube the economy? It either dries up or is introduced with even more inflation.

He never claimed that Obama has ruined his business, that is YOUR commentary, and you are only using it to further your narrative. You should work for Fox News. The price of a pizza is going up by something like 14 cents because Obamacare has raised the cost of him doing business. That's the way business works.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


Why so much hate for the rich? "Elections have consequences" - Barack Obama, 2009. These business owners were clear before the election that if Obamacare was not repealed (Obama was not replaced), they would have to plan accordingly. These successful business people didn't become successful (rich) by making bad business decisions. The government shouldn't screw with them. They are much smarter.