Native American Indians & The People of Palestine......One in the same..And it's a damn shame.

reply to post by luciddream


There has never been a country named as palestine, area which was called as palestine was part of Jordan. So according to old testament ( written 1400 B.C ) God gave Israel to jews. Quaran was written almost 600 A.D, muslims believe some parts of Old Testament not as a whole, so one part what muslims do not believe is the state of Israel and being promised land for jews. So i think the main conspiracy lies here, why to alter something which is thousands years old to fit their own views and needs, and keep in mind what Quran teaches that all world should be islamic, command and conquer ... thats just the way people behave i guess.

So being promised Land and as there has never been country called Palestine, land is by the bible named Israel and promised for jews. When State of Israel was 1948 established it didn´t take a week to receive first attacks from muslims. So the people of Israel has technically lived under terror over 80 years, first Nazis and followed by muslims. With this experience jews have, can you blame them when they are trying to be safe?

reply to post by openyourmind1262


im pretty sure there was no organized religion among the natives, they did all have religious practices though that varied from tribe to tribe. the main difference between the two is the people over there follow a certain religion guided by a book and a leader, the closest thing u can get to a book or leader from the natives are some cave paintings and the Great Spirit, and a whole lot spoken word history. also the natives lived on a prime piece of land that had many resources ripe for the taking and were killed because they would defend the land with there blood since that land is what what gave them life(true patriots). as for the ones over seas, not much land, or resources compared to the natives land. the fighting over there is a over an ideal, and/or a game and/or organized religion. so in the end i will disagree that these two people are one in the same. the only thing they share is death, as we all do.

reply to post by dollukka

There has never been a country named as palestine, area which was called as palestine was part of Jordan. So according to old testament ( written 1400 B.C ) God gave Israel to jews.

Doesn't matter how many times you repeat that, I have a copy of Collier's World Atlas and Gaxetteer, copyright 1938, right here on my desk which clearly shows on page 100 a country named Palestine, separated from Transjordan by a big orange border . No Israel, though.

Who wrote the Old Testament? Big clue.

Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by Sissel

 

]None of them are forced to be there. I know for a fact. Many live and work outside of the rez, and earn decent incomes, and still do not pay federal or state income taxes, which is fine by me. Don't make it sound like they don't have the best of two worlds, because they do. It's how they choose to use this luxury, most Americans don't have the luxury of. Most assuredly something Palestinians are not able to enjoy.

Well, its a fact that the federal government decided to "encourage" people on the rez to assimilate back in the 70s ~ to give up their native cultures and traditions to become second class citizens in the general population. There's a pile of them that gave it a try and many still are trying, like in Minneapolis, where they have their own little enclaves, although many have returned to the reservations.

Long before I moved to the desert southwest, I knew people in Illinois, who moved there, but who were tied to the rez in Rosebud, South Dekota. They lived outside the reservation but still received funds to live on from the reservation, while still earning incomes. They had free health insurance then, and still do. What don't you understand about a lot of Native Americans living the best of both worlds? There is no comparison to what Palestinians endure! None. I think it's awesome my Native American friends have taken advantage of the best of both worlds. I am just saying, they have the luxury of doing so. No matter where they live, they can always draw on tribal funds.........yes, they can.

I do get a kick out of people who brag how the Indians get all that free federal health care but are so adament that they don't want it for themselves. And with good reason.

chronic under funding of IHS, and in its regulation heavy bureaucracy both of which give rise to the sobering fact that at 1,642 per 100,000 people, the death rate for Na tive Americans in South Dakota is the highest of any race or ethnic group in the U.S., according to 2007 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention numbers.

www.lakotacountrytimes.com...

No free health care should be available to everyone. From what I have witness and learned, it's all to easy to get lazy and addicted, when you get a lot for free. Some work it the right way, and a greater number of people work it the wrong way.

The grass is always greener, hey?

It is what it is. It's not for me to say, which side of the lawn is greener.

edit on 20-11-2012 by Sissel because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-11-2012 by Sissel because: (no reason given)

I've found that trying to learn the facts from friends and acquaintances is generally not a good plan. IHS does not exist off reservation. Free clinics often provide medical care for indigent people in urban areas, but they available to everyone and are not federally funded.

news.wustl.edu...

Today, nearly 60 percent of American Indians reside off-reservation, and because of that, the majority of American Indians do not have ready access to the cultural and financial services provided by tribal and federal agencies on the reservations.

Not my opinion.

You're right though about not being in a position to say. None of us are. That's why they say "walk a mile in my moccasins."

ETA: and that also includes what life is like for a Palestinian. We can't even imagine it.

Originally posted by Chrysalis
Well, the situation over there pretty much sums up how the world is run today :

- abusing the weak
- media manipulation
- divide and conquer
- widespread corruption
- fear tactics

And we awe that to people that put money above human life.

Yep.... Can you imagine if the fleas on the dogs thought like us and had the same territorial greed and weapons. Poor dogs ! .... and no doubt the dog would expect their human/god/protector/provider to help em out with their domestic issues.

Seriously though I can see the correlation between the native Indians and Palestinians in the fact that they were out gunned, demoralised, land grabbed and oppressed of their freedom to live within their native homeland. It all seems like a repeat of ethnic cleansing and controlling in the modern age. What I find ironic is that Jewish people and Israel have been belly aching about what happened to them under Hitler for scores of years. The collective Israeli cognitive dissonance is stunning. .

reply to post by openyourmind1262

yes indeed Israel is a colonialism machine but I thought Great Satan was someone else (joke)

Originally posted by Quadrivium
reply to post by openyourmind1262

 

How very little do you know of the area?
Even if there was not a Nation of Israel, there would still be fighting in the Middle East.
There is always fighting in the Middle East.
What do you suggest? Get rid of all of the Jews? Get rid of all of the Christians?
There would still be fighting in the Middle East.

Sure.
Get rid of everyone everywhere except for white, fat, southern baptists between the ages of 3 and 63.

reply to post by openyourmind1262


Hey man, leave my people out of this. This had nothing to do with christianity or Jesus. Manifest Destiny is what landed my people in reservations. It was about greed and wealth. I do not blame the people of today for what happened back then even though alot of native americans do and still hold grudges. You can sit there and point the finger and whine about the past or move on, because those are the only 2 options you got.

There already is a 2 state solution between Israel and Palestine, it's called Jordan, and 3/4 of the jordanians are palestinians. Now if it were me and i wanted a home for my people, i'd go to where the majority of my people were, right there in Jordan but Jordan doesn;t want the palestinians in Gaza. Why? Because theyre extremists who exist for no reason but to stir up trouble.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262

The people of Palestine are just like the Native American Indians. Forced off their lands. Forced into a christian name and christian doctrine of doing things ( supposedly because it was the right way). Paleistinians are just being crushed. We allmost erradicated those savage American Indians, Israel is to the point of erradicateing the Paleistinians. The Indians lived off the land... The palestinians eat anything they can, as Israel has them locked down like a prison.
OYM1262

edit on 20-11-2012 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)

As a Native American who actually lives and works on the Rez, I am nothing like Palestinians.

We Native Americans have never packed a bomb under our coats and walked into a cafe to blow up Americans!

We Native Americans have proudly fought for our country, the USA, in every war!

We Native Americans aren't launching rockets from within our reservation borders into American cities!

We Native Americans have learned to live and be a part of this great country!!

Originally posted by openyourmind1262


The people of Palestine are just like the Native American Indians. Forced off their lands. Forced into a christian name and christian doctrine of doing things ( supposedly because it was the right way). Paleistinians are just being crushed. We allmost erradicated those savage American Indians, Israel is to the point of erradicateing the Paleistinians. The Indians lived off the land... The palestinians eat anything they can, as Israel has them locked down like a prison.

Your spelling is horrific.

American Indians can live like everyone else in America. Everyone else practices what they want to, nice alternative history try.

reply to post by Putyournamehere


Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, with the caveat that smallpox was not the only disease the natives had no immunity to. The point of fact is that the secondary waves of Europeans came and conquered a land that was in the midst of a plague. Had European disease not been an issue - the history books would read much, much differently.

John Wayne movies like to make Native Americans seem like inept barbarians with kamikaze mindsets and stone age tools - but just ask General G.A. Custer how well that assumption worked out for him.

Without diseases like smallpox the Natives would have had more men able to fight and the course of history would have been significantly different. The advantages given by steel and gun gave the South American Conquistadors a great advantage. But in North America trade with trappers had minimize that advantage.

The myth of the mighty European soldier decimating the heathen through military superiority is just that - a myth.

~Heff

reply to post by Malcher


I could care less what you think of my damn spelling. You read it. You understood it. But your far superior spelling abilities just would'nt let you leave it alone. Grammar Nazi.

I'll tell you all this. When you can't see the parable of comparing the American Indians & The People of Palestine as both being driven off their native lands and slowly being suppressed to nothingness by a ruthless nation, just as we did the native Americans. It's just sad.

The situation and the outcome seems to be the same. To the American Indians who asked me to "keep your people out of this". I will. I will no longer comment on Native Americans. Why should I support your people, you don't even support each other or recognise when one is on your side so to speak.

Israel is still a threat... To all peoples, not just the ones in Palestine.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by Malcher

 

I could care less what you think of my damn spelling. You read it. You understood it. But your far superior spelling abilities just would'nt let you leave it alone. Grammar Nazi.

Oh no, my grammar is atrocious. My point is these people, like everyone, have suffered enough without YOU. LET THEM BE.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Putyournamehere

 

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, with the caveat that smallpox was not the only disease the natives had no immunity to. The point of fact is that the secondary waves of Europeans came and conquered a land that was in the midst of a plague. Had European disease not been an issue - the history books would read much, much differently.

John Wayne movies like to make Native Americans seem like inept barbarians with kamikaze mindsets and stone age tools - but just ask General G.A. Custer how well that assumption worked out for him.

Without diseases like smallpox the Natives would have had more men able to fight and the course of history would have been significantly different. The advantages given by steel and gun gave the South American Conquistadors a great advantage. But in North America trade with trappers had minimize that advantage.

The myth of the mighty European soldier decimating the heathen through military superiority is just that - a myth.

~Heff

It was disease all right.

Dec. 26, 1862: The execution of the 38 Dakota warriors at Mankato: Revenge and rage drove the flawed legal proceedings behind the kangaroo-court convictions of 303 Indians who surrendered after the U.S.- Dakota war of that autumn. Only President Lincoln’s aversion to mass punishment limited the hangman’s toll to 38. But the stain of those official killings, followed by the official banishment of the Dakota Sioux from their home (banishment or extermination was the state’s policy) left a mark of shame on Minnesota that has colored all the years since, and which has made it almost impossible to even talk about the events of 1862.

www.nickcolemanmn.com...

Same disase.

The U.S.-Dakota War played out along several all too familiar themes of U.S. history: broken treaties and unfulfilled promises. The war started in August of 1862 and when it was over six weeks later, hundreds of Indians, settlers and soldiers were dead along the Minnesota River valley.

The conflict began over broken promises of food and other goods that the United States government made the Dakota in exchange for land. The fighting included battles at Fort Ridgely and New Ulm.

minnesota.publicradio.org...

The disease was called greed.

The sickness has spread worldwide. We've been spreading it. One day it will catch up with us.

reply to post by frazzle


Your points are valid - but we are discussing periods roughly 200 years apart. By the time of even Jackson and the Louisiana purchase a large portion of the aboriginal population had already been wiped out by European disease.

One important cause of Native American depopulation during European contact was epidemic disease. The sixteenth through nineteenth centuries saw many different diseases strike Native American populations with considerable frequency.

Many of the diseases, such as syphilis, smallpox, measles, mumps, and bubonic plague, were of European origin, and Native Americans exhibited little immunity because they had no previous exposure to those diseases. This caused greater mortality than would have occurred if these diseases been endemic to the Americas.

Dobyns (1983) and Merrell (1984) report several European-induced epidemics in Florida, the Carolinas, and Virginia between 1519 and 1750, including smallpox, bubonic plague, typhus, mumps, influenza, yellow fever, and measles, although Dobyns' research has been argued methodically unsound by others. Bubonic plague and scarlet fever depopulated the Senecas in the 1630s to such an extent that four village settlements were forced to amalgamate into two. Archaeologists found Seneca ceramics dating to the post-epidemic period that were characterized by rough, uneven craftsmanship, suggesting the epidemics killed a substantial percentage of skilled artisans and thus eliminated some cultural knowledge.

It is important to note, however, that these epidemics were just some of the causes of population decline during European contact. Intermarriage, slavery, wars, massacres, political disruption, economic changes, malnutrition, destruction of traditional subsistence patterns, and alcoholism also changed the composition of many Native American groups, whether they favored the changes or fought them. Eventually, these changes caused substantial depopulation and cultural change. This Native American depopulation occurred during the contact period, causing the Native American population size to decline from 1-18 million before European contact (c. AD 1500) to an estimated 530,000 by 1900.

Source

Frazzle, your frazzled.

For pete's sake folks I'm talking about the Native Americans of long ago and how they were done. Not modern day Native Americans.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Hefficide

Your points are valid - but we are discussing periods roughly 200 years apart. By the time of even Jackson and the Louisiana purchase a large portion of the aboriginal population had already been wiped out by European disease.

Yes, disease played a large role, but it wasn't the entire program.

Of course the take away from the story I posted in comparison to now should be that we're no more civilized today than we were two hundred years ago. Different people maybe, but still killing "savages" and the US is in the thick of this one, too. For the same reasons. Control, wealth and profit.

As for horrific diseases, don't give up just yet, there are a few good ones coming down the pike. Too many damned people in the world ~ gotta thin the herd. Just ask Bill and melinda.