Native American Indians & The People of Palestine......One in the same..And it's a damn shame.

reply to post by openyourmind1262
Greetings Open Your Mind, apparently, according to The Wave Series Transcripts, the Hebrews are of Atlantean descend; www.focusonrecovery.net...
whose DNA were manipulated in such a way to cause mistrust and warring. Is just part of the paradigm. As difficult as it is to witness such atrocity, all is part of a perfect plan. This is only a small part working behind the scene acting as potentiator. Maybe, is why the one most call "Jesus" may have said "Judge not" for we do not have a view behind the scene.

Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by Logarock

 

In fact Josephus (100 a.d) called it Palastine in greek. and even the greek word is born out of the very old name of the area...Pe-le-sheth (hebrew b.c.) meaning a land of strangers and wonderers....said to be from the word pa-lash or pa-lesh meaning to roll i.e. in dust to morn.

Translated in english as Palestina, Philistia, Palestine.

It is used in biblical and other literature to mean all of historic Israel and.....important here.... in certain context all the nations of that area to include Israel, Juda, and their relations Amon, Edom and Moab. The people know today as "Palestinians" today are certainly of the last three nations which are of very old related to the Israelities.

There is no doubt that Sephardic Jews lived in Palestine historically, although I don't know that I'd take Josephus' word for anything after the business in the cave. My historical knowledge is shaky here, but as far as I know the Jews of Palestine never named Judea or any other part of Palestine "Israel", they were merely inhabitants there, wanderers, like many other tribes of people.

So the big question is, if Jews had such an interest in making their cherished homeland theirs alone why, long before the first and second world wars, were they so firmly enscounced all over Europe instead of keeping the home fires burning in Judea?

The obvious answer to that question is that European Jews were only Jewish by dint of their conversion to that religion in the 700s AD, not through any blood ties to the Jews of Palestine or physical connection to that land. Can anyone claim that the rank and file European Jews had ever even set foot in Palestine much less lived there for generations? These are the Ashkanazi Jews, with the Jewish religion but a completely different ancestry.

Its as if a thousand years from now African Americans declared the state of Virginia as their homeland and claimed the whole country as their own ~ and for many it actually is their homeland, but not as an independent country separate from the other inhabitants.

But hey, when you think of it, that's exactly what Europeans did with the land of the Indian tribes of Turtle Island, claimed it and renamed it and locked up the original owners so who knows, it could happen.

Shakys the word.....got that right.

reply to post by luciddream


Hate to break it to ya man, but animals are most definitely greedy, and would horde goods, and eat, and kill off everything that stood in their way of food, and their survival. That is where nature come along and puts em in check.
Mankind just has figured out ways to outsmart nature.

If anything it is our animal side that makes mankind do the evils it does. I'm getting really sick of people saying animals are perfect and loving and peaceful. You kids have it all wrong.

reply to post by Logarock

Shakys the word.....got that right.

Well then, don't take it from me.

The Jewish population in Palestine as of 1914 was under 8% of the total population, which was much smaller than the Palestinian Christian Arab population.

Soon after the first Zionist Congress in Basel (Switzerland) in 1897, a Zionist delegation was sent to Palestine for a fact finding mission, and to explore the viability of settling Palestine with persecuted European Jews. The delegation replied back from Palestine with a cable that stated:
"The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man." (Iron Wall, p. 3)

www.palestineremembered.com...

"By 1860 Jerusalem already had a Jewish majority, while throughout Palestine, the population was 24,000 Jews and 440,000 Arabs.

www.adherents.com...

The land of Palestine” was inhabited by a warrior tribe for most of the population while there were also Hebrews living there. But in the Old Testament, the land is not called Palestine but Canaan.

Following the Battle of Yarmouk in 636 CE, the Islamic Empire was established in Palestine as Muslims conquered Syria and there started a Muslim rule which spread over 1300 years. It is known that the Muslim empire was a “golden age” for Jews as they were treated much better than by the Christians.

However, with the Zionist movement of 20th century, a large number of Jews immigrated to Palestine from many parts of the Europe which increased the Jewish population drastically, leading to conflicts between Arabs and Jews.

www.palestinefacts.org...

Before WW II, more than 3.3 million Jews lived in Poland, the second largest Jewish community in the world.
The Jewish presence in Poland goes back a very long time. Even before the Union with Lithuania in 1386, there was promulgated a Statue of Jewish Liberties at Kalisz in 1264.

jewishwebindex.com...

Jewish settlement in Eastern Europe began in the first century, when Jews from Asia Minor began to settle in the urban centers of the northern Black Sea coast.

Jewish migrations to the Khazar Khanate also continued from the seventh to the first half of the tenth century, with most of the people coming from Byzantium. Jewish proselytism was very widespread in the Khazar Khanate, not only among the urban population and the Khazar elite, but also, according to some scholars, among rural dwellers and even seminomadic groups.

www.yivoencyclopedia.org...

So 3.3 million Jews in Poland as compared to 24,000 in Palestine. Why didn't the persecuted Jews of Europe just petition the UN to set Poland aside for their people since they had already been living there since the first century? (And no, that's not a Polish joke)

Poor natives that sit on the reservation all day and get drunk. Yes, let's hand them land so they can build more casinos. Not one of these people truly want to go back to live one with nature. In fact, nothing is stopping any of them from doing that right now. Go on, aboobooboo, hunt buffalo, put feather in cap. Nobody is stopping you.

reply to post by shelookslikeone

Go on, aboobooboo, hunt buffalo ...

Sometimes the word ignorant is just so inadaquate.

Originally posted by Sissel
Here is the difference, and I feel qualified to talk about this since I live in the desert southwest, and have friends that are Native American:

Native Americans have diplomatic immunity while they live on reservations. Do Palestinians?
Native Americans do not have to file income taxes. Do Palestinians file taxes?
Native Americans get free health care. Do Palestinians?
Native Americans are helped with housing. Are Palestinians getting this?
Native Americans get free education. Do Palestinians................

The list could go on, and on........

No comparison at all, whatsoever!

Sorry, but as a Native American I think I have to correct you here. Diplomatic immunity? Are you saying that when we're on the Rez, we can't be arrested? That couldn't be further from the truth. The FBI can and has entered tribal lands for numerous crimes, most often drug related. Here in Wisconsin, we have this little thing called Public Law 280 whereby local county law enforcement agencies have jurisdiction unless a tribe specifically has the law revoked.

We don't file income taxes? Wrong again. We have to pay federal income taxes, but we don't have to pay state taxes. As far as health, education and housing go, which are seriously underfunded on the many poor reservations that don't have casinos, well, those were things guaranteed to Natives when the United States signed treaties with them to give up their lands and move onto reservations. This is where the difference between us and Palestinians comes into play (the only statement you had correct above). We were given these FREE things in exchange for a peaceful surrender to reservations rather than sending rockets into your cities and packing bombs under our coats and blowing up American citizens in cafes and supermarkets.

Another difference is that this actually was our homeland. Israel belonged to the Jews first. Palestinians never had a right to claim that land. Oh, I know, all of the Israel haters will tell me how wrong I am on that one, but history speaks for itself.

reply to post by openyourmind1262


I understand your point and generally agree with what you're saying, but the more appropriate analogy would be that the native Americans would go to the UN asking for national state status and getting it, and with the help of weapons and financing of China, kick a lot of Americans off their land and keep them holed up in reservations/concentration camps (which is essentially what Gaza is). And then China would continue to give the native Americans billions in military aid to wage war against the Canadians and Mexicans while continuing to oppress and occupy the Americans in the American territories. The native Americans would claim a historical ownership of these lands, including holy places, that is much more recent than the Jews and their claimed homeland, and which extended back further into history, than the Jews and Israel as well.

Furthermore, with respect to a lot of the land, the native Americans could say was devoid of people and so was never really settled. And the Chinese could say to the complaining non-native Americans that the Europe, Africa and Asia should take these Americans back, and the native Americans could say there is no such thing as Americans; it is a made-up fiction, and that these johnny-come-lately Americans had for centuries oppressed the true native Americans, conducting pogroms against them and discriminating against them.

That is really the karma that the citizens of the United States deserve for supporting the rogue, apartheid, ethnic cleansing state that Israel is.

to compare the palestinians to the native americans is disgusting and degrading to the native americans..

native americans were not terrorists; they were not suicide bombers and they did not indoctrinate their children with unfounded hatred for other races.

in fact, the native americans, as one poster stated, were friendly, helped americans and at times, fought alongside them for which they were repaid by things like walking the trail of tears and being put in reservations..

i am glad that some of our native americans are doing well now and feel they have the best of both worlds, but i can tell you, it is not due to anything the u.s. has done for them

yet still they continue to live in peace with a nation that stripped them of their land and livelihood..

on the other hand, we have these refugees from syria, lebanon, jordon who were basically dumped on this small patch of land that just happened to be right where israel was setting up house...so they are given territory even if their claim was ambigous(and a nice piece of territory, i might add, unlike the american reservations--like the worst land in the area). and, as gestures of goodwill, they fire rockets and send their children out to blow up the benefactors..

the native american people of this country deserve honor and respect and a better voice in our government. i am not sure what the palestinians deserve...i mean, what is it that they have earned anyway??

reply to post by julia53


Native Americans have been ethnically cleansed by European settlers and then the remaining ones put onto reservations, often on less than desirable lands. Palestinians, too, have been ethnically cleansed from their lands and forced into reservations/oversized refugee camps. The native Americans fought the settlers (later the "Americans") just as the Palestinians fight their occupiers/oppressors. Or are you claiming there were never Indian uprisings in North America? And let me be clear, I am not being critical of such uprisings, but rather just acknowledging their occurrence.

People like you who spout your Palestinian-hating rhetoric are either not aware of the historical facts of the region or you remain willfully ignorant of them. And this amounts to racism. Don't you also have a problem with the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto rising up against the Nazis? If not, then you have a major double standard problem. I, on the other hand, recognize the legitimacy of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising by the Jews against the Nazi Germans as well the Intifada movements/struggles of the dispossessed Palestinians against the Israeli Jews.

By the way, the Nazis used to call all the resistance groups terrorists. One person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist. When the proto-Taliban, i.e the Mujahadeen, in Afghanistan were fighting the Soviets, we called them freedom fighters. Now that we're fighting them, we call them terrorists. In addition the Zionist movement had a long history of terrorism. Google "The Stern Gang" and "King David Hotel Bombing" for starters.

For the record, I get disgusted by people like yourself who call all Palestinians terrorists, and who considers that Palestinians don't have the same human rights as other peoples -- including the legitimate use of force to fight and occupation.

reply to post by julia53


They have earned the damn right to live free. To live without being occupied, to live with some roads & schools. To have food on their tables, If an outside force did this to you in your own neighborhood, you would be outraged. You would fight it off tooth & nail.

The People of Palestine have earned the damn right to live by the sheer numbers that's been erradicated by the Nation of Israel. They have a right to live.. the same right the jews have. When can we all stop calling these people terrorist's? Their terror is an everyday occurance, it comes from living in an occupied state..Surrounded by a people that simply want you all dead and gone. Now that's terror.

If America could have wiped out all the native Americans... They would have without hesitation. The reservations were a means to an end. Worked quite well did it not. And for those in this thread who have said God gave them the land. That's what the Book of Fairey Tales tells us. I say, show us a deed from God himself that proves it's the jews. Because the bible was written by man....and we all know what lieing bastards man can be.

Hey, open your eyes, we are all the same, we are all one, all human. ONE FAMILY>
Wake up, Stop the hate. Its the only way. Every person in your world is an aspect of you.
See what you dont like in those people, accept it and let it go. Life is just yourself, teaching
you about YOU! Much love!!!!



WOODY168.

reply to post by Woody168


Until "man" takes the fallacy of religion and abandons it. Man will allways kill each other in the name of God. The conflict in The Middle East is a product of years & years of hate. Starting and ending with religion. Who's right? Who's wrong? Does it matter when all the ones around will suffer because the actions of a few. Instead of doing away with a people, we need to do away with beleif in fantasy and myth. IE: Religion.

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by Malcher

 

For the love of god, get your head out of your ass!

"The Left" did no such thing of the sort. I'm so sick and tired of these idiotic #ing generalizations on ATS!

You have been so indoctrinated that you dont know which end is up. Dont you realize that nearly everything you know are only lies? All you know is what people have told you, your whole impression of reality can be, and probably was, told around a campfire.

You really don't know a single thing to be talking about this subject.

reply to post by dontreally


I wasn't referring to the issue of Palestine. For a few pages this thread dealt solely with Native Americans. I dont think i played a part in that or even if it would be considered off topic. I would be willing to formally debate the other member since i believe there is a formal debate forum.

reply to post by MrInquisitive


There are just a large large amount of natives in this country that live out here with the rest of us.

reply to post by dontreally


Sorry did not know you were the Guru on this topic. I saw no where in the T& C as to where permission was needed from the Guru.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by julia53

 

They have earned the damn right to live free. To live without being occupied, to live with some roads & schools. To have food on their tables, If an outside force did this to you in your own neighborhood, you would be outraged. You would fight it off tooth & nail.

The People of Palestine have earned the damn right to live by the sheer numbers that's been erradicated by the Nation of Israel. They have a right to live.. the same right the jews have. When can we all stop calling these people terrorist's? Their terror is an everyday occurance, it comes from living in an occupied state..Surrounded by a people that simply want you all dead and gone. Now that's terror.

If America could have wiped out all the native Americans... They would have without hesitation. The reservations were a means to an end. Worked quite well did it not. And for those in this thread who have said God gave them the land. That's what the Book of Fairey Tales tells us. I say, show us a deed from God himself that proves it's the jews. Because the bible was written by man....and we all know what lieing bastards man can be.

This is a series of maps charting the shrinkage of Native American lands over time, from 1784 to the present day. Made because I was having trouble visualizing the sheer scale of the land loss, and reading numbers like “blah blah million acres” wasn’t really doing it for me. The gif is based on a collection of maps by Sam B. Hilliard of Louisiana State University. You can see the original map here.

For those who do prefer dealing in numbers, here are some:

By 1881, Indian landholdings in the United States had plummeted to 156 million acres. By 1934, only about 50 million acres remained (an area the size of Idaho and Washington) as a result of the General Allotment Act* of 1887. During World War II, the government took 500,000 more acres for military use. Over one hundred tribes, bands, and Rancherias relinquished their lands under various acts of Congress during the termination era of the 1950s.

By 1955, the indigenous land base had shrunk to just 2.3 percent of its original size.

sunisup.tumblr.com...

I'm sure most are familiar with similar maps showing the shrinkage of Palestinian lands.