Why the hatred for the Israelis?

Originally posted by svmpua

Originally posted by qvision

Originally posted by michael1983l
There is a general odour of Israeli hatred on this forum recently and to be honest I am a bit perplexed as to why this is so.The Jews were driven out of Europe after the second World War because no country wanted to harbour them so they were forced to settle on land that was not historically theirs. These people have to live somewhere right? Then people get on their backs when they strike the Palastinians after being bombarded by rocket attacks, these Palestinians hide behind Civilians and with cowardly acts of indescriminatley showering rockets on Jewish settlements. Are Israel not allowed to defend themselves? If Israel were just left be there would be no aggression, but they get attacked from all sides and their neighbours have been quite open about wanting to wipe Israel off the map. Is this really fair? I for one have sympathy for the Israeli people.

It's just a minority of Israeli's, as well as the Israeli administration, that most people have a problem with.


QV.

It seems to me that it is because of the growing influence of the muslim brotherhood.
As you know "Islam" means submission and the Muzzies will do anything in there power to destroy all source of criticism of their religion even if it is constructive.
Remember what happened to US embassy in Libya after "Innocence of Muslims ".

I'm not convinced we know what actually happened in Libya, there are too many unanswered questions here...

Originally posted by michael1983l
There is a general odour of Israeli hatred on this forum recently and to be honest I am a bit perplexed as to why this is so.The Jews were driven out of Europe after the second World War because no country wanted to harbour them so they were forced to settle on land that was not historically theirs. These people have to live somewhere right? Then people get on their backs when they strike the Palastinians after being bombarded by rocket attacks, these Palestinians hide behind Civilians and with cowardly acts of indescriminatley showering rockets on Jewish settlements. Are Israel not allowed to defend themselves? If Israel were just left be there would be no aggression, but they get attacked from all sides and their neighbours have been quite open about wanting to wipe Israel off the map. Is this really fair? I for one have sympathy for the Israeli people.

OP, I am saddened and sickened by the rise of anti-sematism seen on the boards as well. I understand that free speech provides for a number of aspects that I would find repugnant but people enjoy.

That will always be the case.

I suppose that we can either ignore such rhetoric or fight it.

I'll choose to fight it. Just wanted you to know that I agree with you and you're not alone in your thoughts.

beez

Originally posted by tanser

Originally posted by citizenx1

Originally posted by tanser
The minute you get personal is when you lose your credibility, debate is never a closed book my friend.

Not necessarily, if the comment is valid.

Also, refering to someone as "my friend" in this context is simply passive aggressive and that is a good description of those who support Israels murderous campaigns - they try to dress it up with logic and rationale but it is a flawed logic that nobody in their right mind could, would or should support.

What was valid about it? What is confirmed? The only 'facts' seems to be coming from the people in support of Palestine but yet not one of you has proof or inside knowledge of what is happening other then biased news agencies who want you to be a part of there propaganda.

I am neither Israel or Gaza.... I think both sides are stupid, both to blame. I am impartial looking in and trying to understand some posts.... thus far, nobody on both sides has provided me evidence.

And seriously, calling someone friend is aggressive? Speechless......

look at maps, look at agreements, look at timelines. Go back to when it actually started. Look up worlds first terrorist on youtube and it might take you to some very interesting confessions from elderly Jews claiming to have bombed the British diplomats ...go back to the early history of the state of Israel because unless you can understand why the elites are doing this... you won't understand why Palestinians and Muslims in the ME are so pissed off. They know what's coming. They know it does not stop here and this is why they feel they MUST fight back because the longer they wait the less of a chance they will have to fight back.

They are not wrong in the fact that this whole charade is completely messed up.
It needs to be known and talked about. I did not think it was so, but it's true that this is a crusade for global dominance or to AT LEAST maintain a certain control with the west as a larger power. I'm not even sure if many of these people realize it because they are indoctrinated on so many other things.

It is not unlike our crusade against communism, which is not because communism is necessarily evil. it is about who holds the reins. The people who cooked these plans up were not accustomed to social diversity... and so in their very vintage territorial attitudes, the world literally became like a board game called RISK where no one wants to risk doing anything good or risk losing control of areas of the world.

Our generation is basically the byproduct of this BS and we still have people that can't wake up and snap out of it and realize.... bloodshed is not the answer.

Palestine will always be the underdog here. I'm not saying all the stuff they do is right but if you go back and do some research you are going to realize that they stole and entire country and this crap goes all the way back to biblical times. It is very connected in my opinion to the Roman empire and it's remains. The Roman empire has always loved to screw with the Jews and try to use that as a doorway. There is a long interesting relationship there that on the surface seems quite detached but underneath it's been all sorts of things.

reply to post by beezzer

I am saddened and sickened by the rise of anti-sematism seen on the boards as well.

And I am saddened and sickened by this miguided notion that any criticism of Israel equals anti-semitism.

Just admit it you probably think there should be NO criticism of Israel at all.

Labelling everyone who disagrees with Israeli policies as anti-semities is disgusting and you should be ashamed.

You are an embarrassment to Israel and all those people currently suffering....on BOTH sides.

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by beezzer

 

I am saddened and sickened by the rise of anti-sematism seen on the boards as well.

And I am saddened and sickened by this miguided notion that any criticism of Israel equals anti-semitism.

Just admit it you probably think there should be NO criticism of Israel at all.

Labelling everyone who disagrees with Israeli policies as anti-semities is disgusting and you should be ashamed.

You are an embarrassment to Israel and all those people currently suffering....on BOTH sides.

Your opinion and your welcome to it.

Mine stands.

You also neglected to add my second statement "I understand that free speech provides for a number of aspects that I would find repugnant but people enjoy" so can your knee-jerk sensitivities.

I'm not shutting people up. But if the hate fits, wear it proudly.

reply to post by beezzer

Your opinion and your welcome to it.

Mine stands.

You also neglected to add my second statement "I understand that free speech provides for a number of aspects that I would find repugnant but people enjoy" so can your knee-jerk sensitivities.

I'm not shutting people up. But if the hate fits, wear it proudly.

That's fair enough. But it has nothing to do with free speech. I don't like anti-semitism any more than you do, but I was referring to the fact that you seem to have a wildly skewed notion of what anti-semitism is.

There is criticism of Israel and there is anti-semitism. They are two different things.

If someone criticised Barack Obama would you call them racist?

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by beezzer

 

Your opinion and your welcome to it.

Mine stands.

You also neglected to add my second statement "I understand that free speech provides for a number of aspects that I would find repugnant but people enjoy" so can your knee-jerk sensitivities.

I'm not shutting people up. But if the hate fits, wear it proudly.

That's fair enough. But it has nothing to do with free speech. I don't like anti-semitism any more than you do, but I was referring to the fact that you seem to have a wildly skewed notion of what anti-semitism is.

There is criticism of Israel and there is anti-semitism. They are two different things.

If someone criticised Barack Obama would you call them racist?

Not all Obama detractors are racist.
But all racists are Obama detractors.

Not all anti-zionists are anti-semetic.

But all anti semites are anti zionists.

I'm just seeing a thinly veiled hatred emerge on the boards dressed in politically correct anti-zionism.

Of course that is just my interpretation, but I should be as free to express it as others. Of course everyone else is just as free to disagree with me, but that is the main reason for the reply button.

Cheers.

Well people might get some antipathy for the Israelis when they come across stuff like this.

Originally posted by XXX777
reply to post by michael1983l

 

The Jewish people have the audacity to write in their holy book that they were given the Earth by their god. Seriously. They actually write that they are to rule the Earth and all of its inhabitants. So you have to imagine that all of those inhabitants will feel somewhat slighted by that proclamation. Right?

Sure they will and have for a long long time. But you never hear anyone complain about how the "children of the sun" ruled the earth for many centuries.....and still try.

Originally posted by citizenx1

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by yourmaker
Where do you suggest they go to fire their rockets?

how about the Hamas terrorists not attack Israel! Why do they have to fire their rockets at all?..... then they will not get Palestinian's killed.... but Hamas do not care about their own civilians.

Ah yes, don't defend yourself from an invader, just accept it and the consequences.

Its a good job my country didn't see it like that in 1939.

We learned some lessons from that, seems Israel did too, but from the wrong side.

When the Jewish Question arose back in the day, there was very little dispute about where the Jewish homeland would be.....back on their ancestral homeland. The folks in that area of the world didnt want them to come home and form a government, due to age old hard dislikes. The Jews came home and said ok we are back so move over, make some room. So overnight the Jews went form world gypsy status, scattered and fractured to having a state.

Well its simply if one knows the history....those folks over there just dont like jews, dont give a flip about a jewish homeland and in fact hate the idea, and did indeed see Jerusalem as a prize taken from their age old enemy.

Now what you have these days are the same Jew hating forces turning the tables of the word meanings and using the Palestinian as a photo opp of sorts, a military wing with the cearfully crafted presentation of them being the poor,downtroden and abused. Its a mind game a dish served up to the simple to sop up. These same Jew hating forces have also spent a good deal of time and effort turning the Palestinians into usefull idiots.

Just to clarify some inaccurate statements made in this thread...

Approximately 60% of the 6 million Jews in Israel are Sephardic. I am a Sephardic Jew, with roots originally from Morocco and I'm well of aware of the statistics. I live in Canada, but most of my relatives are original Israeli settlers.

The majority of Jews in Israel originate from the northern belt of Africa, from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and Yemen, and they are all of Sephardic origin.

Sephardim.com

There are approxiamtely 9,000 Jews in Iran, which is one of the lowest populations of Jews relative to the population in the world.

Persian Jews

Furthermore, the bulk of Ashkenazi Jews in Europe were wiped out in the Holocaust prior to the inception of the State Of israel, regardless of the lies are told about their allegedly false ancestry.

Don't believe the hype.

reply to post by beezzer

I'm just seeing a thinly veiled hatred emerge on the boards dressed in politically correct anti-zionism. Of course that is just my interpretation, but I should be as free to express it as others.

Of course everyone else is just as free to disagree with me, but that is the main reason for the reply button.

And I disagree with you. How is criticizing Israel anti-Semitic?

Are they above reproach?

If we can criticize Syria, Iran, China, Germany, France or even our own country...why not Israel?

When Israel was created - it's as if much of the world wanted to say: in light of what has happened to the Jewish people throughout history - we give you this piece of land and a big stick

You do what you want with it - no questions asked

beezer - do you not get that there are plenty of Jews - Israeli Jews at that - who oppose many of the actions and choices of their own government?

Not everyone is a hawk - and calling people anti-semitic seems like a convenient cover for Islamaphobes

just my opinion - and I stand by it

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Like I said above;

Not all anti-zionists are anti-semetic.

But all anti semites are anti zionists.

Feel free to disagree. Voice your opinion. I just see a dichotomy and will comment on it.

In my humble opinion, of course.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by beezzer

 

I'm just seeing a thinly veiled hatred emerge on the boards dressed in politically correct anti-zionism. Of course that is just my interpretation, but I should be as free to express it as others.

Of course everyone else is just as free to disagree with me, but that is the main reason for the reply button.

And I disagree with you. How is criticizing Israel anti-Semitic?

Are they above reproach?

If we can criticize Syria, Iran, China, Germany, France or even our own country...why not Israel?

When Israel was created - it's as if much of the world wanted to say: in light of what has happened to the Jewish people throughout history - we give you this piece of land and a big stick

You do what you want with it - no questions asked

beezer - do you not get that there are plenty of Jews - Israeli Jews at that - who oppose many of the actions and choices of their own government?

Not everyone is a hawk - and calling people anti-semitic seems like a convenient cover for Islamaphobes

just my opinion - and I stand by it

You are right.

Although I think what he was referring to is the alarming number of hate filled, unsubstantiated posts from certain members that go well beyond criticism of the Israeli government.

If you've been on this site for a while, surely you know what I'm talking about, and it's absolutely deplorable in this day and age.

reply to post by muse7


I thought in the Bible.Israel was the land of Juda,to me this means that was their home long ago.

reply to post by Humanity4Ever

Although I think what he was referring to is the alarming number of hate filled, unsubstantiated posts from certain members that go well beyond criticism of the Israeli government.

If you've been on this site for a while, surely you know what I'm talking about, and it's absolutely deplorable in this day and age.

I agree absolutely - those posts and entire threads do exist - they're vile

I have been here for a while - we all do what we can - we speak out whenever and wherever we can

I have no great love for the war-birds of Hamas - or Israel - or these United States

Sometimes alliances are more convenient and strategic than they are anything else - especially while the war machine is in the process of being warmed up

Israel gives as good as it gets - that should include criticism

Woah,, I must be dreaming, I swear it looks like an overwhelming amount of people seem to be on the side of extremist Terrorists who's greatest wish is the death and destruction of the west. There is no denying that this is FACT, people can only claim that so much is 'propaganda' or 'jew lies', or whatever garbage is now most popular for the people with some incredibly baffling love for an islamic extremist terrorist group, such groups having only caused death, chaos, rape, and destruction in their long past which dates back to even ancient times.. Religious extremism or any extremism, let alone terrorism and the killing in said name on top of it, has never been something to commend in anyway...

Am i missing something here or have people become so lost that they sit there in their homelands, in the warmth of their homes, living their chosen ways of life comfortably, while advocating and defending the very people who's greatest wish would be to destroy all of the above, let alone anything that doesn't abide by their ways..? Is the fact that this very general group recently, merely a couple of months ago, on the 11 year 'anniversary' of 9/11- (a date which notoriously marks the day of one of the worst tragedy's in American history, when terrorist attacked, and killed thousands of innocent unsuspecting people) -.launched another act of terror attacks- on this very date- by attacking U.S. embassies, and killing a handful of innocent Americans, including it's own ambassador?!

This is sickening to see, to say the least. It's one thing to stoop to the already lower level of taking the 'side' of this very group, or express your views and dislikeness of Israel, and another thing completely to spew out the very spew which is used to sympathize with such a people when they are burning your homelands flags and beyond openly calling their wish for the death of the west, and everything you/your loved ones know.. (which they would act upon and make come true in a heart beat if given the opportunity to successfully do so).. If you hate another country, fine, that is your view, but when you begin to take upon hating your very own, you need to rethink what the hell you are doing..

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

Like I said above;

Not all anti-zionists are anti-semetic.

But all anti semites are anti zionists.

Feel free to disagree. Voice your opinion. I just see a dichotomy and will comment on it.

In my humble opinion, of course.

I see things too - and you know I'll comment on it :-)

Funny isn't it - sometimes we criticize people for throwing around the racist label when it's unfair to do so - and sometimes the anti-semite label - also when it's unfair

Nature has a way of creating balance beez - no matter what

:-)

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever
Just to clarify some inaccurate statements made in this thread...

Approximately 60% of the 6 million Jews in Israel are Sephardic. I am a Sephardic Jew, with roots originally from Morocco and I'm well of aware of the statistics. I live in Canada, but most of my relatives are original Israeli settlers.

The majority of Jews in Israel originate from the northern belt of Africa, from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and Yemen, and they are all of Sephardic origin.

Sephardim.com

There are approxiamtely 9,000 Jews in Iran, which is one of the lowest populations of Jews relative to the population in the world.

Persian Jews

Furthermore, the bulk of Ashkenazi Jews in Europe were wiped out in the Holocaust prior to the inception of the State Of israel, regardless of the lies that told about their ancestry.

Don't believe the hype.

edit on 18-11-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-11-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)

I did not choose to post in this thread because I count myself to be a hater of Israel, but a lover of truth.

It was with much chagrin that when I read your post. What's the population of Jews in Israel? Oh, about 6 million. Go to look at the population of Jews in the US. Oh, about 6 million.

So I looked up how often and why this number should almost invariably come up in association with Jewish populations. Turns out it comes up fairly often in history and is linked to prophecy in the Torah.
The Torah is, of course, separate from the Biblical record.

www.thebirdman.org...&ScripturalOriginOfThe6MillionNumber.html

There was no accurate data prior to World War II of Jewish population, that is to say, adherents to Judaism.
They rely solely on estimates. Likewise, after the War, peoples were scattered all over to the Americas, Asia,
Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East so that it can only be estimated what the population was.

Does anybody count how many Jews were killed in Russia? Or those numbers don't matter.
There are estimated that 20 million non-Jews were killed in World War II. Is that not a holocaust?
Do their lives count for nothing? Should I hold my breath awaiting a Gypsy holocaust museum and a long
awaited homeland?

I'll make my own declaration of ignorance- I don't feel I have enough knowledge of the whole situation to really take a stand and have an opinion.

But I admit that I have often a negative attitude towards Israel. Two reasons:
One, the martyrism aspect of their religion brings upon them the exact martyrism they value. It proves to them that they are Gods special people because they believe Gods special people will always be victimized.
Like anyone I know who focuses on and creates victim-tyrant systems, I have little sympathy for them, because I don't pay into it.

Two- I had a friend who married a Lebanese man. They lived in Lebanon for many years, and they had to get used to Israel just sending over bombs every once in a while for no reason. Their electricity would be gone, their water, buildings destroyed, living in danger all the time. There was just no rhyme or reason to it. There was no events that could help them guess that it was coming... it was just random and continual.

I don't know the whole situation politically at that time, I just know I formed a rather negative view of a peoples that would do that for so long and ALSO claim victim status and demand the victim benefits from others!