Why the hatred for the Israelis?

See this is the problem. Yes, Israel is a Jewish state. However, criticizing Israel doesn't make people "anti-Semetic" or a "jew hater". I deeply hate Israel. I do not hate Jewish people. There is a major difference.

My dislike for Israel is more towards their government and military. If I recall correctly, a lot of people who live IN Israel feel the same? I thought that there were protests over this. I am confused about some things that I read about Israeli's, or at least American born Jews, and I honestly would like this clarified for me by either an Israeli or someone who is Jewish.

1) Do you really believe Israel was just a desert before it became Israel? The reason I ask is because on CNN I see a lot of people posting this. They seem to have the belief that before it was Israel, it was nothing but dirt.

2) For Israelis, are you honestly taught that everyone is out to get you? That everyone hates you except other Jews? I saw this video a while back and it just made me ill. Why are these kids forced to be upset? Why are they forced to hate?



ps- the link is for part 1 of 3

But long story short... criticism of Israel does not automatically mean antisemitism.

Oh and as far as WW2 is concerned.. there is a lot more to the Jewish story there besides just the holocaust. But that is an entirely different topic.

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter

Originally posted by Humanity4Ever
Just to clarify some inaccurate statements made in this thread...

Approximately 60% of the 6 million Jews in Israel are Sephardic. I am a Sephardic Jew, with roots originally from Morocco and I'm well of aware of the statistics. I live in Canada, but most of my relatives are original Israeli settlers.

The majority of Jews in Israel originate from the northern belt of Africa, from Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and Yemen, and they are all of Sephardic origin.

Sephardim.com

There are approxiamtely 9,000 Jews in Iran, which is one of the lowest populations of Jews relative to the population in the world.

Persian Jews

Furthermore, the bulk of Ashkenazi Jews in Europe were wiped out in the Holocaust prior to the inception of the State Of israel, regardless of the lies that told about their ancestry.

Don't believe the hype.

edit on 18-11-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-11-2012 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)

I did not choose to post in this thread because I count myself to be a hater of Israel, but a lover of truth.

It was with much chagrin that when I read your post. What's the population of Jews in Israel? Oh, about 6 million. Go to look at the population of Jews in the US. Oh, about 6 million.

So I looked up how often and why this number should almost invariably come up in association with Jewish populations. Turns out it comes up fairly often in history and is linked to prophecy in the Torah.
The Torah is, of course, separate from the Biblical record.

www.thebirdman.org...&ScripturalOriginOfThe6MillionNumber.html

There was no accurate data prior to World War II of Jewish population, that is to say, adherents to Judaism.
They rely solely on estimates. Likewise, after the War, peoples were scattered all over to the Americas, Asia,
Europe, Northern Africa and the Middle East so that it can only be estimated what the population was.

Does anybody count how many Jews were killed in Russia? Or those numbers don't matter.
There are estimated that 20 million non-Jews were killed in World War II. Is that not a holocaust?
Do their lives count for nothing? Should I hold my breath awaiting a Gypsy holocaust museum and a long
awaited homeland?

I agree wholeheartedly regarding the tragic nature of ALL of the innocent lives lost in WWII. I never suggested otherwise. I was merely pointing out factual discrepancies stated earlier in this thread.

reply to post by Humanity4Ever


I wasn't trying to pick a bone with you. I was more or less using your post as a jumping off point because, to be honest, I didn't know that the current Jewish population was being stated as 6 million.
It just prompted me to do a search because I was almost positive that I had seen the number of 6 million Jews in association with a turn of the 20th century kerfuffle.

I was trying to determine what or why there might be some sort of agenda by using that number so consistently.

There was. It turned out that, if you read the link, it relates to attempts to force fulfillment of the Torah.
It is a worrisome pattern to me that I also feel like there are forces trying to fulfill Biblical prophecy as well.

What that always brings to mind is that in the Bible it is said that "they will think it is of their own origination",,,that these things occur, but GOD is..."putting hooks in their jaws and dragging them"...to the events of the appointed times.

Cheers.

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
reply to post by Humanity4Ever

 

I wasn't trying to pick a bone with you. I was more or less using your post as a jumping off point because, to be honest, I didn't know that the current Jewish population was being stated as 6 million.
It just prompted me to do a search because I was almost positive that I had seen the number of 6 million Jews in association with a turn of the 20th century kerfuffle.

I was trying to determine what or why there might be some sort of agenda by using that number so consistently.

There was. It turned out that, if you read the link, it relates to attempts to force fulfillment of the Torah.
It is a worrisome pattern to me that I also feel like there are forces trying to fulfill Biblical prophecy as well.

What that always brings to mind is that in the Bible it is said that "they will think it is of their own origination",,,that these things occur, but GOD is..."putting hooks in their jaws and dragging them"...to the events of the appointed times.

Cheers.

Definitely some worrisome correlations.

Cheers

This is way I really dislike these threads.. it turns into complete stereotypical rhetoric of entire people's.... first off not every Palestinian is a terrorist.. and believe it or not, not everyone who is Israeli is Jewish. These broad stereotypical terms amaze me.
Nor do I think it's anti-american to feel sympathetic to palestinians or israeli's. As for the person who believed it was anti-american to side with the 'terrorist'... good grief it's a known fact that Iraq and saddam hussein had very little if anything to do with 9/11. That is a fringe group under a dead fringe millionaire. I don't like it when my government uses fear as a catalyst for war, nor any other country. I think it's a high percentage of peoples of all nations who want to live their lives in peace.. I have yet to meet someone who thinks it's a great idea to live in a war zone. More innocent people dying.. but they deserved it because of where they were born, or what religion they believe in and i'm way over the anti-muslim/islamic rhetoric I hear almost daily. That would be like the world condemning the united states for people like Fred phelps and the westboro baptist church....

please get some perspective.

reply to post by michael1983l


State of Israel is not operating within its internationally agreed borders. It houses massive claims outside its UN defined limits. That might stir a bit feelings from those affected. Add to this also the whole process of how Israel version 1947 was created - through terrorism - and you add a few to those feeling a tad astray with the idea. And add to that soup all what happened ever since, and the grounds for "liking" Israel are least to say shaky.

And what comes to the semitic tribe "Jews" getting kicked around - none of it has been without a real reason, those reasons triggering a collective, social punishment. Terribly sorry for that fate but the fact is, right from council of Toledo (694) - or even earlier when Romans leveling the temple - up to recent developments - the label, suspicion and fate have been brought up by true reasons. Scale of events triggering larger social punishments, that including holocaust. Was that right, or even ethically right, to issue such a collective punishment - I am not arguing that. But that is just the logic behind the actions. Considering the massive impact of WW-I and Communism, I think there might be some level of social punishment - or atleast self-criticism - to be allotted on the Jewish cabal.

But even those actions have not that much to do with Israel, since Jews are much older gene soup than that state. Israel should stand for its actions as a legal entity.

Whereas, any claims "Jews" have for current geographical area of Israel - that is bogus. That is pure bogus. They cannot claim it more than Babylonians (or today's Iraks) or Persians (today's Iran) or Egyptians or Turks. However, if you maintain the argument and claim that as valid, then the region belongs to Turkey, or more precisely to Kurds (Caldeans), since that is the origin of Abraham.

But why should I care about all this? I do care. Too much suffering. Its time to enter new world order even for Israel, and build for peace.

First off there is an extraordinary ignorance of history and the area, as to who occupied it first. Many will answer with the erroneous information they have been told or accumulated from uninformed and incorrect sources.

To have a viable discussion, the truth needs to be present. Otherwise it's all Ego or Bravado fueled.

www.google.com... GABw&usg=AFQjCNGoGTcBAnyi8r0OAU9YgjrRZngTUg

Inform yourself and then decide who has claim to the territory of Israel.

Originally posted by Plotus
First off there is an extraordinary ignorance of history and the area, as to who occupied it first. Many will answer with the erroneous information they have been told or accumulated from uninformed and incorrect sources.

To have a viable discussion, the truth needs to be present. Otherwise it's all Ego or Bravado fueled.

www.google.com... GABw&usg=AFQjCNGoGTcBAnyi8r0OAU9YgjrRZngTUg

Inform yourself and then decide who has claim to the territory of Israel

Inform yourself and then decide who has claim to the territory of Israel

.


Indeed...


Israel's surprising best seller contradicts founding ideology

i think the question is 'why the hatred for israel?' not israelis per se. to hate a corrupt system is not to hate all those that are subject to it, but those that applaud and perpetuate it.

reply to post by michael1983l

How about the US is tired of being wagged by the ass-end of the dog.

WAR will always have casualties, but if one country is a coward and hides behind civilians and dress like them..and still fires rockets not even aiming at anyone, well thats a coward. They've had it coming, shooting 768 rockets in Israel in 2012 alone, heck I would of went to war sooner. If Gaza, has no army why are they keep firing at Israel why are they instigating with them..

Originally posted by live2beknown
WAR will always have casualties, but if one country is a coward and hides behind civilians and dress like them..and still fires rockets not even aiming at anyone, well thats a coward. They've had it coming, shooting 768 rockets in Israel in 2012 alone, heck I would of went to war sooner. If Gaza, has no army why are they keep firing at Israel why are they instigating with them..

You have fallen for the propaganda, Now Israel can bomb indiscriminately.

Look at the stats....3 Israeli's Vs 67 and counting

reply to post by michael1983l


Then people get on their backs when they strike the Palastinians after being bombarded by rocket attacks, these Palestinians hide behind Civilians and with cowardly acts of indescriminatley showering rockets on Jewish settlements.


Which settlements, the ones they keep stealing, or the ones from the original treaty?

I dislike it not because of the things they do, every country/government given the chance will/has/does evil things. I dislike it because a portion of the deeds done are with my tax dollars and theres no way i can stop it because the majority of my country men and woman are idiots so i have to wait for the next 70 years to hopefully get a country of people that will eventually not vote people in, to vote for more money for this scum bag of a nation (yay voting is FUN). Same reason I dislike my government, killing innocents/stealing/torturing in the name of fake wars, to make a handful of people rich. Everyone in each government should all be hung, along with Israel for treason against humanity.

Why all this hate ????



Let love and understanding reign

reply to post by michael1983l
You miss the whole point it's not about the Jews it's about oil, this was in planning since WWI, Rothschild needed a foot hold in the Middle east for his oil holdings, that is all Israel is or was.

The middle east is old news now and the Rothschild are on the outs, as they will not give up on the middle east quest, now the sites of the, power brokers are set on Asia.

The jews are doing what they have always done they own Hollywood, us congress, media, even Disney, Walt's rolled over in his grave. Israael false flaged 9/11 as the us government watched on and allowed.

God's chosen people, make me barf, It's the people not the religion.

If the Israelis didn't take over Palestinian land and treat them like trash in the process, nobody would have launched anything at the Israelis.

You're argument is silly, due to the fact that there has NEVER been a Palestinian nation state so the Israelis didn't take over Palestinian land.

What there has been was, between 1920 and 1948, a British Mandate for Palestine. This was created by the British out of Ottoman Syria after the British Empire defeated the Ottoman Empire during WWI. The area was ruled by the British and, when the Britsh Mandate for Palestine ended in 1948, it spilt up into TWO sovereign states: Israel and Jordan.

Yet the supporters of the "Palestinians" seem to be confused and, for some reason, seem to have it in their heads that there was once a nation state called Palestine which suddenly found itself occupied by Israel. This is just them showing their ignorance. There wasn't a country called Palestine. Just an area of land called British Mandate for Palestine which was created by the British, was never a sovereign state and existed for just 28 years,

Supporters of "Palestine" also seem to never mention the fact that Israel is not the only state which occupies the area which they call "Palestine" and that Jordan does, too.

There are two possible reasons why the supporters of "Palestine" never mention that fact. Either:

1) They are, yet again, completely ignorant as to the political history of that area or;

2) They know full well that Jordan, like Israel, was formed out of the British Mandate for Palestine but choose, for some reason known only to themselves, to only pick on the Israelis.

Originally posted by michael1983l
There is a general odour of Israeli hatred on this forum recently and to be honest I am a bit perplexed as to why this is so.The Jews were driven out of Europe after the second World War because no country wanted to harbour them so they were forced to settle on land that was not historically theirs. These people have to live somewhere right? Then people get on their backs when they strike the Palastinians after being bombarded by rocket attacks, these Palestinians hide behind Civilians and with cowardly acts of indescriminatley showering rockets on Jewish settlements. Are Israel not allowed to defend themselves? If Israel were just left be there would be no aggression, but they get attacked from all sides and their neighbours have been quite open about wanting to wipe Israel off the map. Is this really fair? I for one have sympathy for the Israeli people.

Many of them could have spread out all over the world if they wanted to. They could have even gone to America. Nobody forced them to settle on the land that for a thousand years previous was the palestinians. The israelis raped and pillaged the land during the seven days war, amongst other wars against the palestinians, and killed palestinians in their own homes, removed their bodies, and claimed palestinians furniture as theirs by divine right. I may have sympathy for them if they gave the palestinians their land back and advocated peace, but until then...

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by michael1983l

 

Israel has broke 65 UN resolutions with no consequences, Iraq broke two and got invaded, bombed and destroyed... Have a look at the death ratio between Palestine are Israel... Its about 10.1

No mention of the fact that the UN is a very anti-Israel organisation; that a lot of the UN resolutions against Israel are completely unfair and countries which do far worse things than Israel do not receive any resolutions; and that the UN denies Israel rights which every other member state of the UN has.

In 2003, in a lecture at the UN conference on antisemitism, Anne Bayefsky said:

There has never been a single resolution about the decades-long repression of the civil and political rights of 1.3 billion people in China, or the more than a million female migrant workers in Saudi Arabia being kept as virtual slaves, or the virulent racism which has brought 600,000 people to the brink of starvation in Zimbabwe. Every year, UN bodies are required to produce at least 25 reports on alleged human rights violations by Israel, but not one on an Iranian criminal justice system which mandates punishments like crucifixion, stoning, and cross-amputation. This is not legitimate critique of states with equal or worse human rights records. It is demonization of the Jewish state


A study of General Assembly resolutions published in 1991 by Morris Abram of UN Watch reached similar conclusions. The event celebrating an annual International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People on November 29, 2005 was attended by Kofi Annan and other high-ranking diplomats, sitting next to a pre-1948 political map of Palestine. This map is apparently a fixture of this celebration since 1981. An observer noted that the map was printed by the PLO and, therefore, "must have been produced post-1964" US Ambassador Bolton wrote to Annan:

Of specific and most immediate concern is the signal potentially sent when three top UN officials, yourself and the Presidents of the Security Council and the General Assembly, participate in an event with a "map of Palestine" prominently displayed which erases the state of Israel. (...) It can be construed to suggest that the United Nations tacitly supports the abolition of the state of Israel.

By 2007, Israel was, bizarrely, the subject of 76% of country-specific General Assembly resolutions. This can only be explained due to an anti-Israeli voting bloc at the UN:

Tal Becker, legal advisor to Israel's permanent mission to the UN, visualizes this anti-Israel voting bloc as a series of "concentric circles." The smallest of the circles is the core of twenty Arab nations that constitute what is known as the "Arab group” which initiates the harshest condemnations of Israel. These countries are part of the larger fifty-six-member "Moslem group", all of whom can be counted on to consistently support anti-Israel resolutions. These fifty-six nations represent part of the Non-Aligned group of 115 largely third-world nations that formed during the Cold War and generally have voted as a group independent of Soviet or U.S. influence. And an even larger circle, considered the standard lineup against Israel, is composed of the 133 members of the G-77, which includes all of the developing countries.

And a study published by the UN Association of the UK, reviewing the language of General Assembly resolutions about Israel between 1990 and 2003, found that:

resolutions passed in the same period by the General Assembly were far more explicit in their condemnation of Israel. (...) Violence perpetrated against Israeli civilians, including the use of suicide bombers, is mentioned only a few times and then in only vague terms. Violence against Palestinian civilians, on the other hand, is described far more explicitly. Israeli occupying forces are condemned for the “breaking of bones” of Palestinians, the tear-gassing of girls’ schools and the firing on hospitals in which a specific number of women were said to be giving birth. Another trend noted in General Assembly Resolutions is a progressively more anodyne tone towards Israel throughout the period examined. This is reflected in a decreasing tendency of resolutions to specify Israeli culpability in policies and practices reviewed by the General Assembly; compare, for example, General Assembly resolution 47/70 (1992) with 58/21 (2003).

I have seen a lot of hatred directed at the Israeli people as well as confusion between the Zionist scum and your everyday Jewish person.

www.nkusa.org...

Is evidence enough to show that there is a difference between Zionism and Judaism.

As for the hatred of the Israeli people...it too is out of ignorance. My heart goes out to the Israeli people...but my blood boils at the State of Israel. Do not confuse the two. I am an American who is not supportive of the government and the other criminals who run the show. Don't blame all individuals for the actions of their government.

Originally posted by Sicksicksick
No mention of the fact that the UN is a very anti-Israel organisation; that a lot of the UN resolutions against Israel are completely unfair and countries which do far worse things than Israel do not receive any resolutions; and that the UN denies Israel rights which every other member state of the UN has.

There's always an excuse for Israel... isn't there. If the UN was so "anti-Israel".. they would have granted Palestine statehood. If they were so "anti-Israel" they would have done more than just wag their finger at Israel.

Then again.. they might be anti-Israel. Didn't Israel blow up a bunch of UN buildings and people during Operation Cast Lead?

Also, Palestine, pre-Israel might not have been an official "State"... but there is absolutely no denying that the land was Palestinian prior to the British handing it over to the Zionists.