UK The minimum wage problem.

Originally posted by michael1983l
The trouble with the UK currently is that minimum wage is nowhere near the minimum living wage standard. I guess you need a minimum of 17k just to get by these days. The UK is a terrible place to live right now, im on 35k and I struggle, so I can only have sympathy for those on lower wages.

The most I have ever earned is £12.000 per year, I did not struggle, but then I did'nt buy a new car every two years, throw food away, have foreign holidays, or bought the latest clothes, idiot pad, DVD, games Nike's, every month, perhaps you don't either, do you actually know where you money goes?

The world has changed and we're living in times where corporations dictate government policy. It used to be the case that if your couldn't afford to pay a living wage you simply went out of business, but now we all work to feed the corporations and live off the scraps they throw us.

the Govt aids the parasitical behaviour of the 'rich' and ofcourse themselves , the means , market distortion of which the minimum wage , taxation , benefits , govt debt issuance are all complicit.

Minimum wage causes unemployment as all jobs below this level are lost.
Taxation increases employer costs and hence reduces employment.
Benefits increases the tax burden on the economy and reduces employment.

The Govt by issuing debt guarantees[bonds] via taxation a flow of 'risk free' income for the wealthy and others, this causes the hoarding of wealth which should be invested in the economy to produce a return or lost.

The answer is a tax base that provides a safety net for the vulnerable etc, but on the whole responsibility for ' life risks' are born by the individual, this leads to 'fluid' economy where opportunities for all increase with the risk of loss of all participants hence income will be more evenly distributed , a society in which the poor can become wealthy and the wealthy poor , and back to rich as wealth and success is aligned to economic results.
This system protects the connected elite from the balancing effect of capitalism and free market

Originally posted by sitchin
min wage is not the problem ...property rent/fuel/food/and general living cost have become so inflated to the point that 40k plus is a struggle....if your single and making over 18k/25k your actually worse off than anyone on min wage due to the fact that you don;t receive any help ...


putting the min wage up to £10 an hour wouldn't help ..living costs across the board need to reduced ..we see energy firms making billions of pounds profit when only 30 years ago they were publicly own

i think governments need to lay down the law and have set tariffs to control theses greedy share holders who's only goal is to generate profit rather than a service

B..b...b...but Mr Cameron says there is very low inflation.
Surely he can't be fudging the numbers, thats unthinkable!
And then using those fudged low inflation figures to adjust GDP figures to make the gdp figures seem higher and make it look like we're out of recession.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
I posted this as a reply in another thread but I think it deserves its own thread.

Minimum Wage.
With hundreds of unemployed people applying for each job vacancy employers have realised they only need to offer the minimum wage.
Because the minimum wage is so low the employee does not pay income tax and they need top-up benefits because without the benefits ALL their earnings would be gone after paying Rent/Mortgage payments and council tax etc.
The benefits are needed to buy food and clothes and to pay extortionate electric and gas bills, and to cover the cost of getting to work etc.

Can you see the problem?
We have a workforce that is paid so little it cannot pay income tax.
On top of that the same workforce requires top-up benefits to survive.
If this workforce cannot pay income tax then from where do we get the money to pay the benefits that they need?
Where do we get the money for our national health service and all the other services?

Where is all the money going?
Its in the bank accounts of all those greedy corporations that only pay minimum wage OR LESS because they have a workforce that’s subsidised with benefit money.

I was sitting in a train station and heard four school children (about 15 years of age) discussing all that I’ve written above. I was impressed; I thought the young were too dumbed down to understand.
On hearing their discussion I couldn’t help but think of all the people I see in these forums who still don’t understand what these young kids have already worked out for themselves, that is…

Forcing people into work does not create income tax, it creates a benefit claim!!


If an employee does an honest weeks work for a large corporation such as tesco for example, then that employee ought to earn enough money to provide for his family without the need for top-up benefits.
BUT!!!
Every year we hear of the £billions of profit earnt by these corporations and then we hear the stories about tesco’s etc who not only pay minimum wage but have started laying off full time minimum wage employee’s and started taking on people who are forced to work just for benefits.
This means that the few people who do have a reasonably well paid job and are paying income tax are paying the wages of the tesco employee’s, tesco etc are paying NOTHING!!

Cameron should be locked up.

I have been saying the same thing in other threads to people who bash benefit claimants.

What many people need to realise is that the vast majority of working people ARE benefit claimants. If government forced Starbucks and the like to pay their fair share of tax in this country, and working people were paid enough to live on, then maybe we wouldn't be facing such drastic cuts in public spending, and there would be plenty in the government pot to help those people whom the benefit system was created for.

And of course, politicians need to keep their corrupt sticky fat fingers out of the pot too. Expenses claims? They need to pay their own work and living expenses like the rest of us have to. If we can do it on NMW, why can't they on their super-salaries?

Originally posted by yg2bfkm
People working for minimum wage; deserve minimum wage.

Don't want minimum wage?

Stop watching X-factor, Big Brother, stop watching soaps, stop eating Burger King and KFC meals - stop stuffing your pie-hole with random crap, stop guzzling down your pepsi or cocacola, stop staring at farmville, stop snooping into other peoples lives in FB -- stop updating your twatter -- stop drugging yourself with nicotine and alcohol which further fogs your brain deeper in the stupor that it's already in... put down your x-box controller and GET EDUCATED.

Go to the library and READ -- or if you're too lazy from all your pre-conditioning; educate yourself on the net. There's no excuse these days for being ignorant when you have information at your fingertips. Stop being a willfully dumbed-down zombie, accepting of minimum wage; just like the government wants you.

Minimum wage is YOUR choice.

Companies are offering minimum wage now more than ever because there are more zombies now than ever.

edit on 4-11-2012 by yg2bfkm because: (no reason given)

Your entire post tells me that you should take your own advice and educate yourself and stop being a such a dumbed down, brainwashed zombie. And you're right, you have no excuse for being as ignorant as you so obviously are

reply to post by pikestaff

The most I have ever earned is £12.000 per year, I did not struggle, but then I did'nt buy a new car every two years, throw food away, have foreign holidays, or bought the latest clothes, idiot pad, DVD, games Nike's, every month, perhaps you don't either, do you actually know where you money goes?

Thing is, if you work full time then regardless of what job you do you deserve a few luxuries in your life, and there is more than enough money in this country to pay you enough to afford those.

If you choose not to indulge yourself every once in a a while that's your choice - but you should have the financial capability.

Have we progressed so little as a society that we believe it's right that people are paid nothing more than subsistence level wages for a fair days work?

Originally posted by VoidHawk
reply to post by Trolloks

 

The minimum wage does need to be increased for all, including the younger workers, why should they get less??

The problem is that the big corpo's have so much info on every individual household that if the minimum wage were increased the big corpo's would do their sums and realise each household has x amount of spare cash, and they'd increase prices to match.
The problem is our government allow the corpo's to fleece us of every last penny and until that stops it wont matter how much we earn.

I think you missunderstood, i suggested that there should not be a difference in the wages for 18-21 and 21+ year olds, that it should all be 18+. At the moment, min wage for 18-21 year olds is £4.98, while 21+ is £6.19

OK I wouldn't normally blow my cover like this, but I feel it's relevant to invite you all to join a new facebook group called My Boss Is A Jerk. Say It How It Is. Obviously be careful. I don't want anyone being kicked out of work over it. Maybe people could discuss past work related problems?

britain is fast becoming a third world country by 2020 if we are still here britain will be a third world country not only this but there will be civil unrest and gangs of different ethnics fighting over food and water. This is what they want dont people see it its all fixed the economy crash is a fast. The shadow government who are rockefella and rothchilds are orchestrating the new world order for there own benefit the time has come for a new era or age as they deem the world is in trouble with over population and yes there right there is far too many people on this planet so there needs to be measures taken but not to kill and starve people especially the british who are the strongest nation on earth.

Originally posted by sitchin
min wage is not the problem ...property rent/fuel/food/and general living cost have become so inflated to the point that 40k plus is a struggle....if your single and making over 18k/25k your actually worse off than anyone on min wage due to the fact that you don;t receive any help ...


putting the min wage up to £10 an hour wouldn't help ..living costs across the board need to reduced ..we see energy firms making billions of pounds profit when only 30 years ago they were publicly own

i think governments need to lay down the law and have set tariffs to control theses greedy share holders who's only goal is to generate profit rather than a service

Housing rents in this country are unbelievable.

Where I live, private landlords set their rents so high that the average family cannot afford them. If landlords can't get the rents they ask, they simply leave the homes empty indefinately. At present, owners of empty properties are exempt from local council taxes for as long as they stay unoccupied.

Under new proposals which will come into force next year, all landlords will be liable for full council taxes on their empty properties, no exemptions any more. So, if they don't want to pay council taxes on their houses, they'll need to let them out sharpish, and that means they'll have to lower their rents.

This will apply to people who have two or more homes too. At present they only have to pay council tax on their main residence, with large subsidies/exemptions on 2nd or more homes. So maybe we'll see many of these 2nd homes with 'for sale' signs on them.

reply to post by VoidHawk


Well I guess UK is starting to sound like the US growing welfare state, where you get a job, but do not earn enough to get off government assistance, still the government can count you out of unemployment and boost employment numbers, but forget that you are still a burden to the state tax payers.

Then you wonder why deficits keeps growing,

reply to post by doobydoll



if rents were too high they'd be empty.

reply to post by marg6043



Since tptb can ' print' willy nilly to sustain the deficit and no repercussions are felt by Govt as the populous
don't mind maybe deficits are the new normal, or just a stage until a new economic or 'utopian ' system arises?

Originally posted by Zngland
reply to post by doobydoll

 

if rents were too high they'd be empty.

What?

Many are left empty, for weeks, months, sometimes years. That is the problem here.

Councils are doing away with local tax subsidies/exemptions on properties which are uninhabitable and take too long being refurbished too - so landlords can't, say, take a kitchen sink out, just to avoid paying local authority taxes.

reply to post by Zngland


Yeah, that is the norm this days, keep piling the debt on the paying tax payers while record profits needs to keep maintaining.

I wonder if the UK have what the federal government have here or an equivalent to keep stealing from the tax payers to keep the banksters and Wall Street in business, you know the so call and famous Q1,2,3 we are now in Q3 here in the US because the first two didn't work and already Wall Street is talking about Q4, this is the way that the Fed keeps feeding the Banksters and Wall Street but doesn't have to call it Bailouts.

Right now since July the fed is printing 40 billion a month to keep the banksters alive.

Originally posted by SilentE
I'm a gardener. I take home minimum wage. My missus works 15hours a week -/+ a few hours.
Together we pull in 17k which is shirt buttons. The only way we're surviving is down to the fact that I rent off my dad who gives me a deal like no other.
Since a few months ago, HM revenue stopped my working tax credits because I take home too much. I'm now down roughly £300 a month and this has affected me greatly. We are struggling and I for one am sick to death of it.
SICK TO THE DEATH.

Let me know when the revolution begins. I'll be on the front row.

I sympathize wholeheartedly with your struggle, I too am bringing money home only to have it immediately cancelled by a bill or demand for money from some other profiteering corporation. I don't have sky TV (i don't have a TV because I wont pay the licence fee) I live off microwave meals and sandwiches.

The revolution begins when we all wake up and say "f__k you - I ain't paying" Problem is, too many people are proud as a peacock to pay their bills and taxes. Instead of challenging the morons who make the rules we slag off the people on benefits and blame them for our financial woes. There won't be a revolution mate, not during this generation anyway. Too many hypocrites in this country blaming the less fortunate and ignoring the corporations that are screwing us.

reply to post by doobydoll

Housing rents in this country are unbelievable.

And why is that?

Simple supply and demand.

Years ago council houses provided cheap, affordable decent quality housing for many families who couldn't afford to buy their own homes.
I know that in my town the vast majority of council house tenants were young families.
Some went on to buy their own private houses, some didn't.

Thatcher gave council house tenants the right to buy the property they were living in, sometimes at remarkably knock down rates, and many people took advantage of this policy.

But what happened next was that no new cheap, affordable council houses were built thus forcing enormous numbers of people into the private housing market, and basic economics took over.
Greater demand for private housing stoked the house price boom.
Many were forced to take mortgages they couldn't really afford and with the downturn in the economy repossessions soared.
And those unable to get mortgages had to pay exorbitant rents as landlords sought to make the maximum profit possible.

And we are still paying the price of those policies today.

So maybe we'll see many of these 2nd homes with 'for sale' signs on them.

And what good will that do?
People on minimum wage can't afford a mortgage and even if they can the banks simply aren't lending money.

What we need is a government sponsored building programme designed to provide cheap and affordable housing for young families.

As a slight aside I think it is criminal that we have record levels of homeless whilst so many properties are vacant - but I guess that's a discussion for another thread.

reply to post by Freeborn


I totally agree with you (do my posts indicate otherwise?)

I never said it would do any good if 2nd homes flood the market (did I say that?), I already know banks aren't lending. I don't really care if people with more than one home have to sell one of them, I really don't. I only care about the folk whom have no home at all, let alone two or more.

reply to post by doobydoll


Private landlords will act in their interests and the rent will reflect local supply demand.

Council housing rent is tricky since their cost is subsidized and bear no market forces.
The lack of supply or it's quality is a societal/ local council issue.